Vodafone data billing insanity

Owen

Just got my bill this morning at it was about 430 Euro, which is neat, as I only have a bill of about 130 a month max. My previous bill from September was 211 Euro - which I left unnoticed as I had been roaming in Poland and Germany and thought nothing more of it. However, when I got the bill this morning, I went pale. On examination, it seems that 300 Euro of this months bill is for 14 Megs of Data, and 140 Euro of the previous bill was for 8 Megs of Data.

Naturally, I've just phoned Vodafone and absolutely f*cked them out of it. They've given me a month's line rental F.O.C., and are investigating the issue which they think is down to a tarriff screw up on their part. If anyone else gets insane bills though, get them checked!

squonk_ie

I got the same. Its down to the fact I signed up for the 9.99 500mb add on to use with my iPhone. It turns out that you have to use the apn live.vodafone.com which the iPhone does not seem to like. I got hit with a 475 euro bill. It should have been 150. Vodafone are crediting the rest to me

Owen

This issue is still going on. Got my third bill this morning, and again, it was almost 300 Euro, the majority of that being data. What's even more frustrating, is the monkeys on the phone are giving me different promises, and procedures every time I speak to them. Just once, a phone call returned by a Team Leader would be a nice touch.

wirelessdude

what kind of data are you accessing on the phone and how many MB per month are you averaging?

Tom Dunne

I think it's generally accepted that in Ireland, data rates are extortionate unless you are on one of the bundled plans.

Why by implication would suggest roaming data rates are double extortion.

CodedFire

@ The OP: Where all your charges because of data roaming?
@ ned78: What did you expect its not a vodafone approved handset! Did you read about the data addon before using it, it clearly states in the small print that it is subject to a connection to vodafone live.

Owen

CodedFire wrote: »

@ The OP: Where all your charges because of data roaming?
@ ned78: What did you expect its not a vodafone approved handset! Did you read about the data addon before using it, it clearly states in the small print that it is subject to a connection to vodafone live.

Well first of all, I am the OP, and secondly, it shouldn't matter a damn what handset I use. Data charges are data charges, like voice charges. The charges have bugger all to do with roaming, they were domestic rates. I worked 5 years in phone retail through College, so I've a fair idea of how network infrastructure works.

Even without the data addon, 14 Megs for 330 Euro is the stuff of Dick Turpin no matter what spin you want to put on it. Also, the confirmation by poster 2 in this thread that Vodafone refunded him in the same situation is proof of their incompetence.

CodedFire

You obviously were not very good at the job so. If you had any clue about the mobile industry you would know that data charges have EVERYTHING to do with handsets.

For instance take blackberry, they charge you to use their email facility and pass the charge to the operator. If you want to use email on a different handset you are subject to different charges.

If you took the time to read the second posters post you would realise that he was not using the correct addon therefore he was charged accordingly. This means he was given a goodwill gesture. This is no different than with any other network. Your problem is not with the network it is with your handset. Have you rang Apple and asked why you cannot use the live.vodafone.ie apn? I doubt it. Your annoyed because you got penalised for using an unsupported handset on vodafone.

This handset will be availble on o2 shortly and im sure they will have specific data add ons for it. Why did you not what till then. And dont tell me because you shoudn't have too. Im sure you accept that you cannot get all the same features a sky box offer through a corus box so why is this any different?

If i worked for a mobile operator i would not give you your money back. Seeing as you worked for a mobile operator you should know all this.

BUYER BEWARE.....

Owen

CodedFire wrote: »

You obviously were not very good at the job so. If you had any clue about the mobile industry you would know that data charges have EVERYTHING to do with handsets.

What a positive input you have had on this thread.

CodedFire wrote: »

If i worked for a mobile operator i would not give you your money back. Seeing as you worked for a mobile operator you should know all this.

It's obvious that there's a screw up on VF's databilling. The second poster has confirmed this, and VF have also confirmed it to me by offering me token incentives like a month's free line rental, a free upgrade, and by getting my bills rechecked.

Hang on, so if I'm right, does that mean your insult in the the first quote above is wrong? Yes, yes it does. For the record, I was exceptional at my job, but sure, this is the Internet, and people like you have to argue a point to death. You're also assuming that because the second poster had an issue with an iPhone, that I *must* be using the same handset. Nice logic.

I've also been using unsupported handsets since the Networks decided to dictate a few years back what handsets people were to buy. I've used the e90, the n90, the n93, and many more. I've had over 50 handsets in 12 years, and in the last 5 years, have had most of the flagship Nokias on VF, and haven't had these issues with billing.

Also, no where on this thread have I actually asked for half arsed advice like yours, I just posted it as a warning to others.

CodedFire

ned78 wrote: »

What a positive input you have had on this thread.



It's obvious that there's a screw up on VF's databilling. The second poster has confirmed this, and VF have also confirmed it to me by offering me token incentives like a month's free line rental, a free upgrade, and by getting my bills rechecked.

Hang on, so if I'm right, does that mean your insult in the the first quote above is wrong? Yes, yes it does. For the record, I was exceptional at my job, but sure, this is the Internet, and people like you have to argue a point to death. You're also assuming that because the second poster had an issue with an iPhone, that I *must* be using the same handset. Nice logic.

Also, no where on this thread have I actually asked for half arsed advice like yours, I just posted it as a warning to others.

Ok read this very slowly......

I said that the issue was with the fact that you were not using the live.vodafone.ie APN just like the other guy.... Ok got that.... good. I then asked did you bother to ring apple and ask why you cannot use it.

Secondly, you where not billed incorrectly. you where billed standard gprs charges which at the time were roughly 2.5c per kb. This means you were offered a good will gesture. This is you MO's way of saying ok we know you made a boo boo but were going to forget all that, dont do it again.

Edit: Removed

Tom Dunne

CodedFire wrote: »

I then asked did you bother to ring apple and ask why you cannot use it.

Before you go, could you just clarify why he should ring Apple?

Owen

CodedFire wrote: »

Ok read this very slowly......

I said that the issue was with the fact that you were not using the live.vodafone.ie APN just like the other guy.... Ok got that.... good. I then asked did you bother to ring apple and ask why you cannot use it.

First of all, read my last post ... very slowly ... you're assuming I'm using an iPhone. I do own an iPhone, but that's for web access at home. I use a normal handset about 90% of the time.

CodedFire wrote: »

Secondly, you where not billed incorrectly. you where billed standard gprs charges which at the time were roughly 2.5c per kb.

No sh*t sherlock. Hence the billing error.

CodedFire wrote: »

This is the last time im going to post in this thread because quite frankly your an idiot.

So productive. Please continue to post in boards with your helpful attitude. We could all do with some more Christmas cheer from your corner.

CodedFire wrote: »

I offered you the solution to your issue

I wish you had. Instead, you jumped to all sorts of conclusions, and then resorted to personal insults.

flywheel

i've had several data billing issues with Voda over the years (mostly with data add on's not being added or not being applied correctly to the sessions).

i always check my Vodafone bill as a matter of course now, especially after any add-on changes have been applied...

be proactive to make sure they are following up on it... sometimes it took me several calls to get sorted, so be prepared to make some follow up calls to check they are looking into it

hope you get it sorted out ok

Owen

Thanks DubWireless. I had made the move to switch off my paper bill for environmental reasons, but I think I'll turn it back on now. It's much easier to read through the snail mail version when it comes.

Will update ye when I have more news!

CodedFire

tom dunne wrote: »

Before you go, could you just clarify why he should ring Apple?

Sorry i should have cleared that up. Since vodafone annouced it would not support this handset (i asked in one of their stores when it would be out, they said a deal broke down so it would be unsupported). it is logical to assume it would not have vodafone apn's on it. Therefore it would make sense to ring the manufaturer (apple) and ask is there a way to input the settings manually. Apple would be in a better postion to tell you this that VF as they are the ones who loaded the OS on the handset. This means they would know what apns it supports. The mobile internet buddle ONLY works with the handset that carry the live.vodafone.ie apn. It states this in the small print.

CodedFire

Edit: This post has been removed as i have no wish to make enemys and would like to use my skills to help rather than abuse people....

Owen

CodedFire wrote: »

YOU WERE BILLED CORRECTLY. IT WAS NOT A BILLING ERROR. YOU WERE NOT USING THE CORRECT APN AND THEREFORE WERE CHARGED ACCORDINGLY.

Indeed - which of course is why VF have agreed to re-examine my bill, and have admitted a billing error.

CodedFire wrote: »

I cannot deal with idiots who quote posts incorrectly trying to prove they are right.

You've got only 8 posts and you can't deal with people who correctly quote posts? Chill buddy, boards will be a very angry place for your otherwise. No one here is making a personal attack on you. So don't over-react, it's just the Internet.

CodedFire

ned78 wrote: »

Indeed - which of course is why VF have agreed to re-examine my bill, and have admitted a billing error.



You've got only 8 posts and you can't deal with people who correctly quote posts? Chill buddy, boards will be a very angry place for your otherwise. No one here is making a personal attack on you. So don't over-react, it's just the Internet.

Ok i appologise, i should not have made my post a personal vendetta. But you have to realise one on two things is going to happen to you.

1: They will recalc and tell you they have made no error.
2: They will recalc based on the live! charges and refund you only for you to receive another big bill because you thought you were following the correct access proceedure.

Again i did not mean to make this personal. Im sure your quite intelligent and i just need to learn not to get so worked up!!

Owen

CodedFire wrote: »

Ok i appologise

Apology accepted, and no damage done.

CodedFire wrote: »

1: They will recalc and tell you they have made no error.

Thankfully they've already admitted the error, so it's just a case of playing the waiting game now.

20 Times 20 Times

Working for a phone operator
If you work for a mobile operator you are welcome to post in this forum, many people here work in the mobile industry and can often be the best people to respond to queries that are posed here. We now have had numerous cases where posts had to be deleted after posts contained internal information.
In the future, users who need posts removed/deleted/edited will get banned.
Please think before you post. Can you also clearly identify which are your views and those of your employer.

.

mik_da_man

I have had had numerous cases of being overcharged for Data recnetly.
I simply phone them up and ask to speak to a Team Leader if the agent is unsure of what is going on.
I have had 2 re-calcs done on bills recently and got ALL the extra charges refunded plus at least one months line rental credited each time (most times I got 2).
It does take persistence and you need to speak to a team leader to get a issue resolved quickly.

But Vodafone brought in the €9.99 tarrif in quite a poor manner. It was not advertised up front that you HAD to use the Live APN and all of the sales agents and call center staff that I spoke to when I got the add-on didn't seem to know that you needed to use the Live APN either.
Also the details were not on the site - anywhere
This is the main reason why so many people are being refunded for data charges - regardless of it being a vodafone problem or a customer issue

Mik

Sam Vimes

codedfire, i'm very glad you calmed down because as i got through your posts i was very surprised that you didn't have the word "banned" under your username. That's not how we talk to each other on these here boards

also, the fact that a handset isn't supported by the network is largely irrelevant. I've never seen a handset that couldn't have the settings manually entered. Apple must be doing something very odd if it doesn't work. Unsupported just means that customer care don't have to be able to help you with the phone

i think the issue here was that it was never made clear that the live apn had to be used. I only knew because of boards

rc28

Commander Vimes wrote: »

codedfire, i'm very glad you calmed down because as i got through your posts i was very surprised that you didn't have the word "banned" under your username. That's not how we talk to each other on these here boards

also, the fact that a handset isn't supported by the network is largely irrelevant. I've never seen a handset that couldn't have the settings manually entered. Apple must be doing something very odd if it doesn't work. Unsupported just means that customer care don't have to be able to help you with the phone

i think the issue here was that it was never made clear that the live apn had to be used. I only knew because of boards

He's NOT using an iphone, he said he only keeps that at home. Anyway, vodafone live apn won't work with my iphone or indeed any iphone I've come across- I don't know if it's apple's fault or vodafones.

flywheel

the Voda "Mobile Internet" service isn't a direct ISP connection, it goes through their Live! Gateway so the proxy details for the gateway (IP and Port) have to be entered somewhere... if you can't configure them in the connection settings, usually the only other options is in the browser...

currently on the iPhone it appears there isn't anywhere to enter them in (easily)... so far the only way I've seen proxy details configured is using a proxy.pac file and some terminal work, rather than a nice settings screen with fields to type the details into... i don't know anyone on voda with one (the people i know with them are using an O2 sim) so haven't seen anyone try, but important to know for anyone attempting they should make sure they don't upset anything else on the iphone (e.g. wlan access, email connectivity) if attempting to configure a proxy... or at least know how to undo it if they try!

CodedFire

@cv: I know i tend to get heated but ull get that, i have made ammends with the op though. I read somewhere that apple and vodafone had a bit of an argument over the whole live! thing, they didn't want branded software on there handset, could just be a rumor though!

@DubWireless: IMOO i do think vodafone would build up a better revenue stream if they changed this. i suppose they dont want it interfering with their broadband sales. If you ask me though all of the networks charges are more clumsy and complecated than they need to be for the average user!

rc28

DubWireless wrote: »

the Voda "Mobile Internet" service isn't a direct ISP connection, it goes through their Live! Gateway so the proxy details for the gateway (IP and Port) have to be entered somewhere... if you can't configure them in the connection settings, usually the only other options is in the browser...

currently on the iPhone it appears there isn't anywhere to enter them in (easily)... so far the only way I've seen proxy details configured is using a proxy.pac file and some terminal work, rather than a nice settings screen with fields to type the details into... i don't know anyone on voda with one (the people i know with them are using an O2 sim) so haven't seen anyone try, but important to know for anyone attempting they should make sure they don't upset anything else on the iphone (e.g. wlan access, email connectivity) if attempting to configure a proxy... or at least know how to undo it if they try!

I don't understand what you mean, on the iphone you can quite easily change the edge settings (apn, username etc) under settings->general->network->edge.

spank_inferno

yeah, the Iphone runs fine using the isp.vodafone.ie apn.

There are addon's that cover the usage of this apn
(though not as good value as the €9.99 live bundle)

€10 gives you 15MB of using the isp apn per month
every MB outside of that is €2.50

€15 gives you 25MB of using the same apn per month
every MB outside of that first 25 is charged at €2.00 per mb


I know it is frustrating, but there are many different data services available.
Each of which have different apn's and accordingly have different tarriff
structures.

Sam Vimes

rc28 wrote: »

He's NOT using an iphone, he said he only keeps that at home. Anyway, vodafone live apn won't work with my iphone or indeed any iphone I've come across- I don't know if it's apple's fault or vodafones.

i know he's not using the iphone. I was talking about it in general. What happens when you try to use the live apn? Can you enter the settings for it somewhere?

Owen

I'm getting 390 Euro credited to my account, which is nice. They've admitted that this is happening in a lot of cases, and are trying to understand why. Will keep ye updated!

rc28

Commander Vimes wrote: »

i know he's not using the iphone. I was talking about it in general. What happens when you try to use the live apn? Can you enter the settings for it somewhere?

Yes, as I said it's very easy to enter in the apn, it is under network settings which is in the "general" page of settings. Once the live apn is entered safari and the other web apps can never load data. Iirc the error message that pops up says something like "nsUrl domain error" and then the usual "could not connect to server". It is different from entering a completely wrong apn because it seems to try and load the page but cant and the data counter does say bytes have been sent and received. I rang up vodafone about it before but they didn't know what to do.

rc28

ned78 wrote: »

I'm getting 390 Euro credited to my account, which is nice. They've admitted that this is happening in a lot of cases, and are trying to understand why. Will keep ye updated!

Why are they "confused"? They know exactly why this is happening- they never made it clear in the advertising that their data bundle is only through the vf live apn. Nobody reads the small print, they should know that by now.

flywheel

rc28 wrote: »

I don't understand what you mean, on the iphone you can quite easily change the edge settings (apn, username etc) under settings->general->network->edge.

hi, for Vodafone Live! / Mobile Internet...

"the proxy details for the gateway (IP and Port) have to be entered somewhere..." "currently on the iPhone it appears there isn't anywhere to enter them in (easily)... so far the only way I've seen proxy details configured is using a proxy.pac file and some terminal work, rather than a nice settings screen with fields to type the details into..."

the iPhone network setting screen's i've seen only have APN, User and Pass fields? (i.e. no where to enter the Proxy Details you need: IP and Port)

rc28

DubWireless wrote: »

hi, for Vodafone Live! / Mobile Internet...

Yes but as I said it never works. Are you asking can I get to the live! homepage where you get ringtones and other crap?If so then no. No vf live menu but on any vodafone phone you don't need to go to the vf homepage first to go through the vf apn portal.

CodedFire

It seems strange that the apns on their own wont work if all the proxy details are correct. I bet that it checks which browser is calling before allowing the connection to procced.

flywheel

rc28 wrote: »

Yes but as I said it never works. Are you asking can I get to the live! homepage where you get ringtones and other crap?If so then no. No vf live menu but on any vodafone phone you don't need to go to the vf homepage first to go through the vf apn portal.

i'm trying to explain that for Live! "Mobile Internet" to work you need to provide the gateway ip / port (not just the APN/User/Pass) - as the iPhone has no where to enter these (proxy details) this is your problem...

i then mentioned only way i've seen proxy's being defined was manually with a proxy.pac file and terminal commands (ref my post above) - haven't seen anyone do this on Voda IRL so best of luck if you try (at your own risk)!

hope that is clearer

rc28

DubWireless wrote: »

i'm trying to explain that for Live! "Mobile Internet" to work you need to provide the gateway ip / port (not just the APN/User/Pass) - as the iPhone has no where to enter these (proxy details) this is your problem...

i then mentioned only way i've seen proxy's being defined was manually with a proxy.pac file and terminal commands (ref my post above) - haven't seen anyone do this on Voda IRL so best of luck if you try (at your own risk)!

hope that is clearer

Ok sorry I misunderstood. Is it only phones bought from vodafone that have the gateway/ip port settings?

flywheel

no most handsets do, the operator provided iPhones have their settings tied to the operator... and it appears unlocked ones just allow you to define the APN connection... it would have been nice if they had an Advanced Tab where you could define a Proxy or if Safari Mobile allowed you to define the Proxy IP/Port (the Safari desktop version allows you to define these settings for example)

the iPhone does have some system files though, one being the proxy.pac file, and some people have modified this to configure the proxy settings they need for their particular operator on unlocked iPhones... but as this is fiddling with system files if you don't know what you are doing it has the potential to mess up, or at least may have a knock on affect for services on the handset... your call if you want to be the first to get it working or (if you can't undo the changes) have a problem...

v10

DubWireless wrote: »

i then mentioned only way i've seen proxy's being defined was manually with a proxy.pac file and terminal commands (ref my post above) - haven't seen anyone do this on Voda IRL so best of luck if you try (at your own risk)!

hope that is clearer

Yeah I've got the live apn to work on the iphone through the proxy.pac file method but theres a downside .. The live apn only allows http traffic so the mail feature won't work ! So you got to decide which you want more ... email or web browsing.

flodis79

What is the minimum billing when using the isp.vodafone.ie, is it on a per-kb basis or 10kb? Eg if I use 7kb of data do I get billed for 7 or 10 kb?

v10

flodis79 wrote: »

What is the minimum billing when using the isp.vodafone.ie, is it on a per-kb basis or 10kb? Eg if I use 7kb of data do I get billed for 7 or 10 kb?

'Pay as you use' GPRS/3G is 2c per kb up to 512 kbs and 0.5c per kb for any usage over 512kbs
There is a minimum charge of 10kb per GPRS/3G connection.

.. from bottom of this page : http://www.vodafone.ie/planscosts/paymonthly/other/

flodis79

v10 wrote: »

'Pay as you use' GPRS/3G is 2c per kb up to 512 kbs and 0.5c per kb for any usage over 512kbs
There is a minimum charge of 10kb per GPRS/3G connection.

.. from bottom of this page : http://www.vodafone.ie/planscosts/paymonthly/other/

Sorry, I am talking about the ISP access point, which is €2 per MB, not the Live! one which is €10 per MB. Is it 1kb or 10kb billing on the ISP one?

TommyGun

I have a personel PDA phone. I can surf the internet with internet explorer and download gmail etc.. I got a bundle for 15Mb for E15. They said that this can be used for all data. They said the 10Mb for E10 would only cover me for email.

Is this correct?

iBoards

v10 wrote: »

Yeah I've got the live apn to work on the iphone through the proxy.pac file method but theres a downside .. The live apn only allows http traffic so the mail feature won't work ! So you got to decide which you want more ... email or web browsing.

Could you elaborate as to how one would go about doing this. How do I access the file to edit it.

Thanks

Nephew

Can someone clear this up for me. I have the €10 500mb gprs add on, is this restricted to browsing the vodafone live menu and approved sites or can I use my phones browser to access sites like gmail, youtube and wikipedia as part of my 500mb allowance, as long as I use vodafone live as the access point.

v10

iBoards wrote: »

Could you elaborate as to how one would go about doing this. How do I access the file to edit it.

Thanks

I followed the instructions here using the vodafone live settings instead of the Airtel Live setting they refer to.

v10

Nephew wrote: »

Can someone clear this up for me. I have the €10 500mb gprs add on, is this restricted to browsing the vodafone live menu and approved sites or can I use my phones browser to access sites like gmail, youtube and wikipedia as part of my 500mb allowance, as long as I use vodafone live as the access point.

It's not restricted to the live menu but it is restricted to website browsing. Therefore all those sites you mention will work fine but access to pop or imap mail, voip, skype etc wont work.

jesus_thats_gre

ned78 wrote: »

I'm getting 390 Euro credited to my account, which is nice. They've admitted that this is happening in a lot of cases, and are trying to understand why. Will keep ye updated!

I have glanced through the post but can't seem to figure out exactly what you are so disgruntled about. It is blatantly obvious that you feel you have been over or incorrectly charged for data services but you don't seem to have revealed the specifics of what you were doing and what charges you have incurred, i.e. what phone you were using, were you browsing the web or using push email, what apn you were using, what you expected to be charged, why you feel that you were charged incorrectly, why you feel that you were entitled to "**** them out of it".

I would also be very curious as what Vodafone are having trouble understanding on your bill? Have they actually stated that you were billed incorrectly or are they refunding you as a goodwill gesture?