Air rifle licence (third "rifle") and question on dispatching cage trapped mink

johngalway

Hi folks,

Ok I have a couple of questions.

Current situation is this, I own a 12ga shottie for clays, game and corvid busting. I have a .22lr rifle for rabbiting mostly, and a .223REM rifle as a dedicated foxing rifle.

Last couple of times I've been into the Garda I've not got the best of reception. Continual questioning on why I need two rifles (even though he approved both) and much foot dragging and general bad temper over doing a .223 "substitution" earlier this year.

Now recently I have started mink trapping using live cage traps. My problem is when I catch one how to humanely dispatch it. After asking elsewhere it was suggested an air rifle would do the job safely and humanely.

Question 1; Is using an air rifle to dispatch a caged mink legal in Ireland? (If not, can someone PLEASE suggest a legal and humane method).

Question 2; How do I stand on applying for a third rifle licence?

I consider my reason for wanting one to be valid (as .22lr has too much ricochet danger up close and personal IMO and 12ga would mangle the trap, .223 is out for obvious reasons), but like I say I have two other rifles already (also valid reasons IMO).

Informed comment and opinion most welcome and appreciated.

(Even from Mods Joke!)

bunny shooter

johngalway wrote: »

Hi folks,

Ok I have a couple of questions.

Current situation is this, I own a 12ga shottie for clays, game and corvid busting. I have a .22lr rifle for rabbiting mostly, and a .223REM rifle as a dedicated foxing rifle.

Last couple of times I've been into the Garda I've not got the best of reception. Continual questioning on why I need two rifles (even though he approved both) and much foot dragging and general bad temper over doing a .223 "substitution" earlier this year.

Now recently I have started mink trapping using live cage traps. My problem is when I catch one how to humanely dispatch it. After asking elsewhere it was suggested an air rifle would do the job safely and humanely.

Question 1; Is using an air rifle to dispatch a caged mink legal in Ireland? (If not, can someone PLEASE suggest a legal and humane method).

Question 2; How do I stand on applying for a third rifle licence?

I consider my reason for wanting one to be valid (as .22lr has too much ricochet danger up close and personal IMO and 12ga would mangle the trap, .223 is out for obvious reasons), but like I say I have two other rifles already (also valid reasons IMO).

Informed comment and opinion most welcome and appreciated.

(Even from Mods Joke!)

Recently went for 3rd rifle (have 22lr and 220 swift), super wasn't inclined to grant 3rd rifle, see thread "How long is long enough", depends on super I'd say, know some lads that have 6+ rifles!

rrpc

An air pistol might be a better tool for what you want. Being up close and personal may be too much work with a rifle.

Get a nice target pistol and you can take part in competitions as well

There is absolutely nothing in law says you can't have more than three firearms. The air pistol gets around the 'too many rifles' argument.

bigred

rrpc wrote: »

An air pistol might be a better tool for what you want. Being up close and personal may be too much work with a rifle.

Get a nice target pistol and you can take part in competitions as well

There is absolutely nothing in law says you can't have more than three firearms. The air pistol gets around the 'too many rifles' argument.

There's not a lot of power in an air pistol, you're only looking at about 7 Joules for the ones that I know of (I'm a paper puncher). Would this be enough to dispatch a mink (or anything) cleanly? Maybe there are high power AP's out there.

rrpc

bigred wrote: »

There's not a lot of power in an air pistol, you're only looking at about 7 Joules for the ones that I know of (I'm a paper puncher). Would this be enough to dispatch a mink (or anything) cleanly? Maybe there are high power AP's out there.

There certainly are. Crossman make a 600fps air pistol which would be about 9 joules and I've seen ones advertised at up to 700fps (12 joules).

johngalway

Being skint at the moment I wouldn't want to spend a fortune, just enough to get the job done properly. The air pistol had crossed my mind, the air rifle would be handy for other purposes as well having extra range i would imagine.

Basically what I'd be looking for would be a tool that will do the job humanely and safely.

I'm afraid competitions don't interest me, being one-a dem dere hunter type boyo's lol

I'll take a gander at that other thread now, in the meantime I'll chance the .22lr should I catch anything though I don't feel comfortable doing it in all honesty!

The Villain

rrpc wrote: »

An air pistol might be a better tool for what you want. Being up close and personal may be too much work with a rifle.

Get a nice target pistol and you can take part in competitions as well

There is absolutely nothing in law says you can't have more than three firearms. The air pistol gets around the 'too many rifles' argument.

I contacted the dept last week regarding importing an air pistol, and was told that a section 7 and licence (both signed by inspector or super) would be required prior to the application for importation being accepted. I was told that it would be considered a category B firearm, the same as a 9mm handgun. I felt that this was a bit OTT, but was told that this is the rule in Ireland and the rule would have to be adhered to. Anyone know if this is a "black and white" rule or is there a bit of "grey" seeing as it is only an air pistol and not a 9mm? Help appreciated.

TV.

sidneyreilly

johngalway wrote: »

Being skint at the moment I wouldn't want to spend a fortune, just enough to get the job done properly. The air pistol had crossed my mind, the air rifle would be handy for other purposes as well having extra range i would imagine.

Basically what I'd be looking for would be a tool that will do the job humanely and safely.

I'm afraid competitions don't interest me, being one-a dem dere hunter type boyo's lol

I'll take a gander at that other thread now, in the meantime I'll chance the .22lr should I catch anything though I don't feel comfortable doing it in all honesty!

How about this: http://www.catsdomain.com/

No fac needed! Otherwise I tend to agree with RRPC, bit cumbersome having to drag an air rifle with you in addition. Request a FAC for an air pistol for humane dispatch and see what happens! Other suggestion would be to use .22 cb long in your 22lr, these fire only on primer and give something like 20ftlbs or so.

rrpc

sidneyreilly wrote: »

No fac needed! Otherwise I tend to agree with RRPC, bit cumbersome having to drag an air rifle with you in addition. Request a FAC for an air pistol for humane dispatch and see what happens!

Unfortunately not accepted as a valid reason to own a pistol; air or cartridge (target use only).

sidneyreilly

rrpc wrote: »

Unfortunately not accepted as a valid reason to own a pistol; air or cartridge (target use only).

Occaisionally works:rolleyes: If says no, then get the rifle! Best thing is to see the super in advance of any purchase and sound him out.

rrpc

The Villain wrote: »

I contacted the dept last week regarding importing an air pistol, and was told that a section 7 and licence (both signed by inspector or super) would be required prior to the application for importation being accepted. I was told that it would be considered a category B firearm, the same as a 9mm handgun. I felt that this was a bit OTT, but was told that this is the rule in Ireland and the rule would have to be adhered to. Anyone know if this is a "black and white" rule or is there a bit of "grey" seeing as it is only an air pistol and not a 9mm? Help appreciated.

TV.

Category B as used above is a designation under EU directive 91/477/EEC.

Category B - Firearms subject to authorization
1. Semi-automatic or repeating short firearms.
2. Single-shot short firearms with centre-fire percussion.
3. Single-shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is less than 28cm.
4. Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.
5. Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber cannot together hold morethan three rounds, where the loading device is removable or where it is not certain that the weapon cannot be converted, with ordinary tools, into a weapon whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.
6. Repeating and semi-automatic long firearms with smooth-bore barrels not exceeding 60cm in length.
7. Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms.

Nothing there about airguns.

Department of Justice webpage on importation of firearms http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Import_of_firearms_by_an_Irish_resident

foxhunter

Why not get some .22 lr bird shot cartridges thats what i use to dispatch magpies in the larsen trap works a treat too.

rrpc

foxhunter wrote: »

Why not get some .22 lr bird shot cartridges thats what i use to dispatch magpies in the larsen trap works a treat too.

I doubt they'd have enough power to despatch a mink. Probably just hurt them.

The .22 bb might be powerful enough though.

sidneyreilly

rrpc wrote: »

The .22 bb might be powerful enough though.

Plenty.

Sparks

Air pistols are not category B. "Category B" is an EU categorisation from EU directive 91/477/EEC:

Category A - Prohibited firearms
1. Explosive military missiles and launchers.
2. Automatic firearms.
3. Firearms disguised as other objects.
4. Ammunition with penetrating, explosive or incendiary projectiles, and the projectiles for such ammunition.
5. Pistol and revolver ammunition with expanding projectiles and the projectiles for such ammunition, except in the case of weapons for hunting or for target shooting, for persons entitled to use them.
Category B - Firearms subject to authorization
1. Semi-automatic or repeating short firearms.
2. Single-shot short firearms with centre-fire percussion.
3. Single-shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is less than 28 cm.
4. Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.
5. Semi-automatic long firearms whose magazine and chamber cannot together hold more than three rounds, where the loading device is removable or where it is not certain that the weapon cannot be converted, with ordinary tools, into a weapon whose magazine and chamber can together hold more than three rounds.
6. Repeating and semi-automatic long firearms with smooth-bore barrels not exceeding 60 cm in length.
7. Semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms.
Category C - Firearms subject to declaration
1. Repeating long firearms other than those listed in category B, point 6.
2. Long firearms with single-shot rifled barrels.
3. Semi-automatic long firearms other than those in category B, points 4 to 7.
4. Single-shot short firearms with rimfire percussion whose overall length is not less than 28 cm.
Category D - Other firearms
Single-shot long firearms with smooth-bore barrels.

Nuts, beaten to it. That'll teach me to work before I post

yank_in_eire

rrpc wrote: »

I doubt they'd have enough power to despatch a mink. Probably just hurt them.

.22 birdshot would work fine - when I was younger many a fat farm rat met its end at over 10 metres with .22 birdshot cartridges. I know a mink is considerably bigger, but seeing as you'll have them up close the birdshot should work fine. Saves you the hassle of another license as well.

foxhunter

yank_in_eire wrote: »

.22 birdshot would work fine - when I was younger many a fat farm rat met its end at over 10 metres with .22 birdshot cartridges. I know a mink is considerably bigger, but seeing as you'll have them up close the birdshot should work fine. Saves you the hassle of another license as well.

Anything that will take out a rat will suffice for Mr mink aswell imo

meathstevie

Try a plastic box with a hose linked to the car exhaust. Carbon monoxide will do the trick in no time. Make sure there's a few small holes in the hose to prevent pressure building up. Carbon monoxide is probably as humane as you can get.

A litlle P.S. make sure the hose is of a fairly heat resistant material, exhausts get quite warm...

johngalway

Caught one today and used an eley sub from the .22 :eek: It did the job but I did look like :eek: doing it.

Birdshot may do the job, this guy today bit the end of the barrel and held on so it'd be less than point blank range. Starting to think a new licence may be more hassle than it's worth at this stage.

A little mink sure has a LOT of attitude, first time seeing one today. Only started trapping yesterday!

Thanks for all of the replies fellas

bunny shooter

johngalway wrote: »

Caught one today and used an eley sub from the .22 :eek: It did the job but I did look like :eek: doing it.

Birdshot may do the job, this guy today bit the end of the barrel and held on so it'd be less than point blank range. Starting to think a new licence may be more hassle than it's worth at this stage.

A little mink sure has a LOT of attitude, first time seeing one today. Only started trapping yesterday!

Thanks for all of the replies fellas

What, they're not cute cuddly furry animals ? Maybe he was trying to bite the bullet ?

Neo Researcher

Thats savage trapping John. Fair play getting one so quick.

johngalway

Put it this way Bunny, I wouldn't reach into that cage to pull out a live mink with your hand nevermind my own! Some set of teeth on the little fella too. If he wanted to bite the bullet he got his wish!

johngalway

Cheers Neo, am pretty happy with the quick result

meathstevie

If you ever need to handle one invest in something like a steel mesh butchers glove. Keep at it John and you'll see the ducks return..

johngalway

Yeah, had welding gloves suggested as well and pick them up by the back feet or tail, dangerous work that, they look like they can turn around in their own skin :eek:

CJhaughey

Keep the skins and you should be able to make a nice coat in a few years..

Trojan911

John,

Why not try releasing it into an open field with a shotgun at the ready? As soon as it leaves the trap engage the shotty. Use a low grain cartridge as not to explode the little fella, then it can be used for research purposes.

Fair play for the humane option. I know of fellas who happily dunk the cage into a nearby river until drowning occurs and mink being semi aquatic can take a while to die, extremely cruel in my opinion.

Like yourself, All my firearms each have a purpose, don't know why you are getting grief from the locals, it's not like your looking for a Barrett Light 50 or something.....

Terrier

John,
Put the trap upright at about 35-40 yards .. One trap cartridge one do the trick.. works every time..

Nice to get a quick result!!

P.S. Did you see the ads in the paper for Corrib Tackle - They are now a firearms dealers also, not to keen on the full page ad in the Galway Independent with the big handgun!!

johngalway

No such thing as an open field around where I live He'd vanish within two feet of the cage lol.

I'm liking that idea Terrier, have you used that option a lot? Cuts out the ricochet problem, kills minky every time?

I must get the GI and check out that ad, big handgun eh :rolleyes: That'll attract the right kind of attention.

Terrier

johngalway wrote: »

I'm liking that idea Terrier, have you used that option a lot? Cuts out the ricochet problem, kills minky every time?

Works Everytime, had to a bit close once and I find the plastic wad will actually damage the cage if you are two close..

BryanL

an air rifle would take care of it quietly,cheaply and humanely, also a handy hunting tool to have around the place.
Bryan