Raw 19/11/07 *spoilers within*

Bounty Hunter

So far seems like a good show not inluding Jericho presumingly saving us later. Is JR on his own? seems that way atm. good start with decent promo's, it seems more live again less scripted even Regal showing up to make an impromtune matchup.

evad_lhorg

passing of the torch my ass.... its THE ROCK!

Fozzy

20th of September?

Bounty Hunter

Fozzy wrote: »

20th of September?

whoops edit please... living in the past

ShawnRaven

Bwahah, even then, it wasn't Jericho!
VR!

ShawnRaven

Is it just me or is Hardy v Umaga dragging in for a RAW match?
VR!

yayamark

jaysus id thought umaga broke jeff hardy there:eek:

Fozzy

It's going long but it's going good

ShawnRaven

Rhodes v Holly.... again? Kill the damn brand split now!
VR!

yayamark

vinces family are from county clare! should have known maddddd:eek:

ShawnRaven

Debatable at best. unless you're dating further back to the late 1800's, the McMahons have always been born in New York. So i'd say thats a storyline jobby

VR!

yayamark

i work with a fella called mcmahon from clare thats why i was saying there mad

ShawnRaven

Ah gotcha
VR!

Fozzy

If you go back far enough then of course they're Irish! Not Native Americans anyway

ShawnRaven

Carlito jobs out to Hornswoggle in his farewell match. There ya go Carly, heres yer plane ticket back to Puerto Rico! Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

VR!

yayamark

god this is shocking bad i should be in bed:o

ShawnRaven

What a graceful job out! At least he wasn't knifed in the shower!
(I'm going to hell for that)

VR!

Fozzy

Jericho will be worth it

ShawnRaven

It's Florida, it's Fort Lauderdale, it's 30 mins down the street from Miami.
Whoever suggested Rock could be right.

VR!

yayamark

i know usa tv run the show but the amount of ads are rediculous, im never staying up again to watch this.

" me shuffles over to try and hook up the vcr to the tv and cable

Bounty Hunter

here we go *fingers crossed* thank got ive nothing in the morning

yayamark

somebody ****ing come out!!!:mad:

its JERICHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ShawnRaven

Fozzy, bombidol - you have your work cut out for you, there's gonna be tons of Jericho threads in the next couple of days.

VR!

EdK

I must admit i was never a huge fan of jericho, but he man just bring the entertainment back with him,l ookin good too

EdK

Chris Jericho is not the savior. No offense to the Ayatollah of Rock ‘n Rolla, but he is not the answer. At the risk of alienating the millions (thousands?) of Jerichoholics, there is not enough long-term money or rating drawing power left in Chris Jericho.

The viral marketing campaign that has marked the eagerly anticipated return of the former unified world champion has kindled memories of other saviors (or at least huge build ups) that, quite simply, did not pay off.

Do not get the idea I am equating Chris Jericho’s ability, positively or negatively, with these workers - just compare the build up to the pay off.

In 1987, Lex Luger left Florida Championship Wrestling for the bigger money and greater exposure of Crockett promotions. For Lex, it was exactly the right move at exactly the right time. For the Florida territory, it was Waterloo. Luger, in two short years, had moved from unknown former USFL football journeyman through fellow Hiro Matsuda trainee with Dewey Forte to the number one draw in a successful, albeit dying, promotion. The promotion’s answer was to find another Luger. A big, handsome, muscular tough-guy who could step seamlessly into the role. They brought in Scott Hall. Save Us indeed.

This was the lumbering, Tom Selleck Scott Hall fresh from his AWA Tag Title run with Curt Henig. Hall was brought in with incredible fanfare including the requisite bikini-clad babes (this was Florida, after all) meeting him at the airport as his Lear Jet landed - all to take him to the FCW contract signing. No disrespect to Hall, the company itself was bought by Crockett promotions and Hall became the regrettable Scott “Gator” Hall character before eventually launching himself into the stratosphere by parlaying “The Diamond Studd” into “Razor Ramon.” But, alas, he was not the savior of Florida Championship Wrestling.

As I am sure you remember, 10 years ago Bret Hart cut ties with the WWF to join WCW (insert video of Bret writing WCW into the air following Montreal screwjob). This was to be the piece de resistance of the Monday Night Wars. WCW had landed almost every top WWF star and lumped them into the nWo. Bret joining this august bunch was to seal the fate and win the war. Eric Bischoff went as far as singing “Oh, Canada!” on a Nitro broadcast to welcome The Hitman in.

Didn’t work.

Bret Hart never jelled in WCW. He did his best. Worked incredibly hard. Was a friendly and professional presence backstage. But he was not the savior. In fact, rumor has it that the WWF bought out WCW in 2001. Obviously, none of the blame for the failure of WCW lies with Bret Hart, but, his signing and much ballyhooed jump did not save the company. We are still waiting for Elisha.

WCW tried to bring Glacier in as some sort of next-big-thing in 1997-1998 (yeah, two years worth). That angle, that character, that storyline - stone cold (no pun intended).

And on perhaps the most tangential note and arcane reference ever, the AWA was not saved despite the ridiculous hype given to Johnny “Crash” Rich in 1984. Enough said.

Anyway,

Chris Jericho is expected to make his return this evening on Raw. The impact that he will have will not be known until at least Wrestlemania. Will the live crowd pop? Absolutely. Will he be as entertaining as he has ever been? No question. Will the first two or three weeks see an increase in ratings? Maybe. Will Raw’s rating increase year to date because Chris Jericho is back? No. Will buy rates increase? No. Will house attendance increase? Eh, maybe 2% for the first month.

Chris Jericho is an immensely talented guy. His ring and mic work at times were the, and I mean THE, highlight of every show he was on. But Jericho did not prove to be a great draw as world champion and any main event feud he had was deemed a mid-card feud that was elevated without cause.

Chris Jericho would add gravitas to TNA like you would not believe. He would (and will) become the star of the WWE mid-card to upper-mid-card roster. Sorry Jerichoholics, he is not the savior. Just the subject of an admittedly brilliant build-up and T-shirt campaign. Ladies and gentlemen, Jericho’s drawing power has left the building.


***An article from Wrestlezone by Scott (I NEVER DID ANYTHING EVER) Hudson

Give the man a chance he hasnt even wrestled yet and his drawing power is gone?, however I do agree that Jericho is not the full answer.

rossie1977

in a way i have to agree with hudson here.

How many smarks tuned into raw last night for the first time in years just to see jericho?? thousands i suspect. how many of those will still be watching raw come january, barely any imo. they will become bored and will remember back to the days when they started watching wrestling first and "how much better the WWF was back then"

The problem doesn't lie with jericho or orton or michaels et al, it lies with how the wrestling public view the WWE, at the moment it is not cool to be a WWE fan.

loads of smarks claimed they would watch raw again once cena was "off tv", this hasn't happened, ratings have stayed steady since cenas departure

ShawnRaven

The Benoit Double murder-suicide has a big part to play in that unfortunately. The media had a feeding frenzy with WWE over that, and then the wellness failures and the signature pharmacy busts. I'm surprised McMahon hasn't had a nervous breakdown with all of this.

I still say it stems back further. WWE hasn't been worth watching since it bought out all it's main competition. Once you fall into the "I'm #1 so why try harder" syndrome, efforts that were once doubled slip and slip until the only reason you end up tuning in is out of force of habit.

And even then, you can only do that for so long until you find a more worthwhile alternative. And that's what i honestly think has happened with WWE right now.

VR!

EdK

Yeah i agree it might go that way but hudson wrote that before Jericho had even returned let's see how it pans out although Jerichos pop wasnt that loud maybe it just didnt come across on tv or maybe it was the fact it was so long building even last night and every body just knew how it would go it was expectant rather than a surprise

From the very outside it was geared for Y2J with Orton declaring himself the best and saying he had defeated everyone FFS how many times has that been done the exact same way!

I wholely agree on the point that since there is no competition they got lazy its ridiculous the crap they feed the fans

Mr.Nice Guy

I thought it was an enjoyable Raw and I gave my thoughts on the big return on the other thread but I'd actually like to pay tribute to a guy who I have openly criticised the last few months (rightfully so) - Triple H.

He's really giving Jeff Hardy a boost at the minute and I feel this is exactly the kind of role he should be engaged in. Fair play to him and hopefully it will give Jeff's career a lift.

ShawnRaven

And there i was thinking you were gonna say that he buried Umaga and Snitsky!
VR!

Fozzy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I thought it was an enjoyable Raw and I gave my thoughts on the big return on the other thread but I'd actually like to pay tribute to a guy who I have openly criticised the last few months (rightfully so) - Triple H.

He's really giving Jeff Hardy a boost at the minute and I feel this is exactly the kind of role he should be engaged in. Fair play to him and hopefully it will give Jeff's career a lift.

I'm not against it, but the way Tazz said "HHH is unselfish" after the Survivor Series match really sounded like they were trying to push the "fact" that he's not selfish. Sorta like they couldn't just leave it up to the viewer to see it for themselves. I really hope that Snitsky doesn't go winning the IC Title now

ShawnRaven

This is WWE we're talking about though, a promotion who feels that their fans have the attention span of a pea, the memory of a goldfish and no mind of their own.

This surprises you?!
VR!

Fozzy

It just felt a bit forced I thought

ShawnRaven

They kinda have to though, He's playing top babyface after playing top heel for years.
I also think HHH is also awful at performing as a face and needs all the help he can get.

VR!

Bubs101

I think he has lost alot of charisma without his hair.
Less Jericho, more Samson

Mr.Nice Guy

Fozzy wrote: »

I'm not against it, but the way Tazz said "HHH is unselfish" after the Survivor Series match really sounded like they were trying to push the "fact" that he's not selfish. Sorta like they couldn't just leave it up to the viewer to see it for themselves. I really hope that Snitsky doesn't go winning the IC Title now

I've heard a few people say that but it didn't strike me as a message being sent. Hard to say.

On the Snitsky interference, that pissed me off so much. I was loving that Umaga/Hardy match and it was the best Raw match I'd seen in a good while and then that waste of space came down. :mad:

Furious-Red

It took me a while to get into the Umaga/hardy match but i tought it was really match.I tought that jeff would win with a count out on Umaga which i felt would have been a good finish since he had tried every move to get the win. Dont me suprise as someone said that snistky will get the IC title.

evad_lhorg

jericho looks a lot more muscly now than I remember.. cant believe I stayed up though. it was ok but nowhere near his original entrance

The Sparrow

I thought that this was a really enjoyable episode of RAW. I fast forwarded very little of it and liked the majority of it.

Obviously the highlight was the Jericho return which was pretty good... but it did seem to lack a bit of the wow factor. I did like how Orton kept RKO'ing everybody out of nowhere. I`m liking Orton more than ever recently even though as Jericho said he can still be pretty boring on occasion.

As ever Santino was brilliant and the Lawler match was great... Real good old school wrestling that told a story. On that theme, Umaga v Jeff was the highlight of the show for me. I thought it was a really engaging match and those two seem to always have good matches. I was gutted when Snitsky rang in and not too happy to see Hunter either. But I guess it could be good...

I assume Hunter will be turning on Jeff even as early as next week?! That could be good if Jeff gets a fair run but Hunter's track record in that regard is not good. But I am still optimistic that it will be good and hopefully it can elevate Jeff to the next level.

Fozzy

The rating for Raw was a 3.5, same as last week and down from two weeks ago. Not what people were expecting I think

flahavaj

evad_lhorg wrote: »

jericho looks a lot more muscly now than I remember.. cant believe I stayed up though. it was ok but nowhere near his original entrance

I thought the opposite to be honest. His arms looked tiny when they were outstretched. Not thats a bad thing, I'm all for natural physiques after whats hapened the last few years.

flahavaj

Fozzy wrote: »

The rating for Raw was a 3.5, same as last week and down from two weeks ago. Not what people were expecting I think

Surely they would have done at least .1 better just from people on this board alone!?:D;)

Seriously thats a kick in the balls for them, all that effort and big build up for no discernible improvement:eek:

Mr.Nice Guy

Fozzy wrote: »

The rating for Raw was a 3.5, same as last week and down from two weeks ago. Not what people were expecting I think

That's a big disappointment. I would have thought a 3.8 at least.

Rjd2

Snitsky
Hopefully HHH will beat him next week in a minute with a spinebuster and bury him for good, I mean what does Snitsky actually bring to the WWE?

Double C

His rugged good looks.

Bring back the baby killing, foot loving Snitsky, and team him up with Heidenreich as they teased back in 2005. Them two would have been hilarious if given the chance.

billstraighten

i thought santino should have gotten a better promo shot, imo the best thing raw has had to offer recently

also agree that jericho doesnt look as big as he used to