Road Bike Wheels

trek climber

This questionhas come up in previous threads but I cant seem to find it. so apologies for raising the subject again - am looking to upgrade my wheels on my Trek racing bike which is kitted with Bontrager wheels and tyres. I remember reading here about Mavic wheels being the best ones to buy but when I have been looking at them on the internet there are numerous types of Mavic wheels available.
Which ones are the best value and most suitable for me - I am a leisure cyclist but would cover a lot of km over the year.

Raam

Here's one thread...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055150109

doozerie

It is worth checking here for advice:

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/components/wheel-sets

Beware though that it is largely a personal choice based on your physical dimensions and how you ride your bike e.g. some wheels are best suited to climbing, others are best suited to long life, some are better for lighter riders, some rims are deep section which are not great in a cross-wind, etc, etc. So look for reviews that give some details about what the wheels are designed for. In addition to the website above Cycling Plus magazine carried out a comparison/review of several wheelsets a few months back which might be worth a look if you know anyone that has previous copies of the magazine.

Mavic do make some excellent wheels, but they are not necessarily the best out there (depends largely on how much you are willing to spend). For example, the best hubs I have ever used are Mavic (one of them is still going strong after 15 years), but on the other hand I have a pair of Mavic pre-built wheels that I have never been impressed by.

As one example of good wheels, Mavic Ksyrium SSC ES tend to get rated very highly. They are expensive though, and for approximately one sixth of the price you could get Mavic Aksiums which might be perfectly suited to your needs. I haven't used either of those wheelsets myself though, so can't give an opinion on them.

Chips Lovell

What's your budget? And also what are you looking for from the new wheels? I presume something lighter perhaps? If so, how much do the Bontragers weigh?

Mavic do make great wheels, but I wouldn't rule out other brands depending on what you're looking for. For example, I'm riding Campgnolo Zondas at the moment, which didn't break the bank but are a significant improvement on my Fulcrum Racing 7s.

trek climber

el tonto wrote: »

What's your budget? And also what are you looking for from the new wheels? I presume something lighter perhaps? If so, how much do the Bontragers weigh?

Mavic do make great wheels, but I wouldn't rule out other brands depending on what you're looking for. For example, I'm riding Campgnolo Zondas at the moment, which didn't break the bank but are a significant improvement on my Fulcrum Racing 7s.

would be willing to spend 300-400 euro on a new set of wheels and am basically looking for a lighter set of wheels for all the hilly routes round here. Have not weighed the Bontrager whhels but they are the basic set of wheels that come on the Trek bikes.
One other question - what is the difference between clincher and tubular wheels, I presume that the clinchers are tubeless, any advantage of these over the tubulars.

Chips Lovell

If they're those paired spoke Bontrager Selects that seem to come with a lot of Treks, I think they're 1,890g (according to the Bontrager website at least).

My Zondas are 1,610g and set me back €400. You could also consider the Mavic Ksyrium Elite, which are 1,690g and €450 or the Fulcrum 3s, which are 1,635g and go for around €400. I also think there's a couple of Shimano wheelsets in your price range. A friend rides the R601s and he's very happy with them.

Clinchers are what you'll see on most bikes with the tyre and tube set up. Tubulars tyres are kind of what it says on the tin, where the tyre is essentially a tube, which you glue to the rim. They're used on high-end race wheels. For example most of the carbon wheels are tubular. Advantage of them is they're can take higher tyre pressure and have better rolling resistance. Downside is that they are a pain in the ass if you have a puncture.

dave2pvd

I'd stay away from the Shimano 601s. I've gone through a pair, as have others I know. And on much better road surfaces than most places in Ireland. The (few) spokes don't seem to hold up.

Great advice re the Mavic wheels. The Ksyrium Elites sound like what you're after. The Mavics are all pretty good durability-wise. They can be heavy at the lower end of the price scale though.

Mr. Skeffington

My advice would be to get a pair of wheels built if you have 300 quid my reccomendation would be as follows:

* Rims: Mavic Open Pro - 32 hole front & rear
* Hubs: Shimano Ultegra, front & rear to suit your existing casette
* Good quality DT Swiss, double butted spokes

These wheels will last you a good few years, heres a link to a pair on e-bay:

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Shimano-Ultegra-Mavic-Open-Pro-Silver-Wheelset-pair_W0QQitemZ190111431889QQihZ009QQcategoryZ58089QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Im not so sure that going for an ultralight set of wheels will make any marked difference to your performance on climbs.

I would advise clincher tyres not the tubular type. As mentioned above these are used on Carbon rims and on some track bikes, it is said that they roll better and you can inflate them to a higher pressure but nowadays clincher tyres have improved greatly and can be pumped to similar pressures. They are a nightmare to fix if you get a puncture, its a sewing kit and patches job that takes ages. They are also very difficult to glue to the rims and they can be dangerous the tyres are not glued properly!

Hungrycol

Mr. Skeffington wrote: »

My advice would be to get a pair of wheels built if you have 300 quid my reccomendation would be as follows:

* Rims: Mavic Open Pro - 32 hole front & rear
* Hubs: Shimano Ultegra, front & rear to suit your existing casette
* Good quality DT Swiss, double butted spokes

I second this excellent recommendation. They're a pretty bomb proof set of wheels esp with the DT Swiss spokes.

blorg

el tonto wrote: »

Bontrager Selects ... 1,890g

My Zondas are 1,610g and set me back €400. You could also consider the Mavic Ksyrium Elite, which are 1,690g and €450 or the Fulcrum 3s, which are 1,635g and go for around €400.

Is the weight the big difference here or are there other benefits (stiffness, aerodynamics, reliability, other?) Is 200-280g off the wheels that big a deal? It's rotational but then it is only 200-280g.

Chips Lovell

blorg wrote: »

Is the weight the big difference here or are there other benefits (stiffness, aerodynamics, reliability, other?) Is 200-280g off the wheels that big a deal? It's rotational but then it is only 200-280g.

Good question. Considering that the lightest, most expensive clinchers are in the 1,400 to 1,500g region, the difference in weight between the top and bottom of the market isn't massive. The big difference I've found with lighter wheels is that acceleration is way easier and also it seems easier to sustain momentum. Having said that how much that has to do with weight and how much it might have to do with better quality hubs etc, who knows.

As for the Open Pro/Ultegra combo, yes they're well known for their durability. However, if the OP is just looking for lighter wheels and doesn't have any other problem with his current wheels, then why would he want to get them? As far as I know, they're about the same weight as the Bontragers.

blorg

I can give a view on terms of pure strength/reliability (not really qualified on the "feel" as I haven't much experience with radically different wheels on the same frame- interested in this point myself.)

I have had very good experience with Mavic CXP33 and Open Pro rears which have remained true for years despite taking quite a bashing.

With regard to Bontrager Selects, I managed to bend a fork (alu steerer) and leave cracks in a carbon frame (write off) after running into the back of a car. Wheel was still perfectly true. (Was quite straight on though; sideways forces would be more damaging.) So el tonto's point is good, no point switching to Open Pros for reliability if you are happy with your current wheels.

Wheelworx

When talking about weight saving on wheels it is rotational weight so it is more like 3-4 times the actual weight so 250g is more like 750-1000 (Particularly if the weight saving is mostly on the rim and spokes) also if you save another 100g per wheel on decent light tyres and tubes which is also rotational you are looking at 600-800 extra so in theory you are lightening the bike by 1350-1800g of rotational weight. This is why it is so noticeable upgrading to a really good quality wheelset, as mentioned before too, the smoother bearings also contribute to the improvement in performance as will bladed spokes.
The reason you notice it climbing more is because the acceleration/deceleration effect is much greater than when riding on the flat.
Lance took it to the extreme of mounting his spoke magnet right at the hub where the rotational weight would be lower.........
Rob

Membrane

Wheelworx wrote: »

When talking about weight saving on wheels it is rotational weight so it is more like 3-4 times the actual weight so 250g is more like 750-1000

I'm no mechanical engineer, but I've been told by people who should know that it is a factor two. And it only applies to a situation where you are accellerating and then stop by braking. If you don't brake, the extra energy that is required to get a heavier wheel up to speed is returned 100% because the wheel acts as a flywheel.

The reason you notice it climbing more is because the acceleration/deceleration effect is much greater than when riding on the flat.

When climbing all that matters is the dead weight, not the rotational weight (unless you are braking on a climb).

trek climber

Mr. Skeffington wrote: »

My advice would be to get a pair of wheels built if you have 300 quid my reccomendation would be as follows:

* Rims: Mavic Open Pro - 32 hole front & rear
* Hubs: Shimano Ultegra, front & rear to suit your existing casette
* Good quality DT Swiss, double butted spokes

These wheels will last you a good few years, heres a link to a pair on e-bay:

Think I am going to take your advice and buy these wheels. I was just on the internet checking out tyres - on Probike they have a pair of Continental Atttack/Force for 46 euro which looks good value.
What do you think ?

Quigs Snr

I put a set of identically specced wheels on a Terry Dolan bike for a friend recently. They are very nice wheels, won't hold you back and if you get them built correctly, have legendary durability.

I use the Attack / Force tires myself. Nice, rode them in the etape, no problems. I feel a little more comfortable with the GP4000's in the wet, but its a personal choice, they are nice light durable tires. Good luck with them.

at1withmyself

Anyone use American Classic wheels, very light for the price:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=19914

The ones listed come in at 1410g

http://www.amclassic.com/pdfs/WheelWeights.pdf

Wheelworx

Membrane wrote: »

I'm no mechanical engineer, but I've been told by people who should know that it is a factor two.

You are probably right, I am not an engineer either

And it only applies to a situation where you are accellerating and then stop by braking. If you don't brake, the extra energy that is required to get a heavier wheel up to speed is returned 100% because the wheel acts as a flywheel.

(Again not an engineer) but I would have thought that the effect of gravity is acting like a brake and slowing you constantly? I have climbed on a selection of quite heavy wheels and very light ones and you get little or no flywheel effect while climbing?

When climbing all that matters is the dead weight, not the rotational weight (unless you are braking on a climb).

Why does rotational weight not matter when climbing?

Rob

Membrane

Wheelworx wrote: »

(Again not an engineer) but I would have thought that the effect of gravity is acting like a brake and slowing you constantly?

But as I said you only have to drag the dead weight up a climb. If the difference between a entry level set of wheels and a top set of wheels is 300g, and the bike + rider weigh 85kg combined, the difference is 0.35%. This is not something that will make a significant difference in time (with the possible exeption of competetive cyclists).

I have climbed on a selection of quite heavy wheels and very light ones and you get little or no flywheel effect while climbing?

The flywheel effect however small or large always returns the energy that is put in. The only circumstance where a smaller rotational weight will bring an advantage is when frequently accellerating & braking in short succession. During normal riding after accellerating the energy will be returned as soon as you ease off a bit.

A lighter set of wheels will make a bike feel more responsive under accelleration due to the effect of rotational weight. What I'm saying is that this feeling can be deceptive if the flywheel effect isn't taken into account.

blorg

Just saw this in my email from ProBikeKit and thought of this thread-

Mavic 2007 Ksyrium ES Wheels, €586

That seems cheap, right? (I have barely seen them that cheap in GBP myself.) What do people think? Of course I don't have a road bike right at the moment, but that will be sorted out sooner or later ;-)

trek climber

blorg wrote: »

Just saw this in my email from ProBikeKit and thought of this thread-

Mavic 2007 Ksyrium ES Wheels, €586

That seems cheap, right? (I have barely seen them that cheap in GBP myself.) What do people think? Of course I don't have a road bike right at the moment, but that will be sorted out sooner or later ;-)

They are a bit out of my price range but I think it would be worth waiting and saving for them even if it meant waiting til after Christmas

zorkmundsson

slightly off topic, but before i bought a pair i had heard that mavic aksiums are a bit susceptible to cross-winds.

the last few days have proved that yes, yes they are.

blorg

I think just about anything would be susceptible to cross winds the last few days, are you sure it was your wheels in particular ;-) Doesn't happen too much thankfully.

I think there is a general tendency for greater susceptibility to cross-winds as rims get deeper.

tunney

Why the hell would aksiums (or kysiums for that matter) be suspectible to cross winds?? They're not deep section wheels, bladed spokes but ffs that doesn't make a difference.

Raam

tunney wrote: »

Why the hell would aksiums (or kysiums for that matter) be suspectible to cross winds?? They're not deep section wheels, bladed spokes but ffs that doesn't make a difference.

Just something else to blame for not being able to cycle in a straight line