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USA Hire car stolen

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  • 21-11-2007 12:16pm
    #1
    Dazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭


    During a recent trip to the USA ,the hire car I was using was stolen . The story is that I drove the hire car into the return compound and was directed ( as you would expect )to park the car by a person in the compund and leave the keys in it . Trouble was the guy in the compound was a scumbag who disappeared with the car. The hire company are now saying that my insurance is void because I didnt take care of the keys and allowed the car to be taken with the keys. They indicated they will be claiming off me for the loss of the car. My only argument at the moment is that they didn't take care of the security of their compound and allowed this guy to operate in there.I you can't trust the people in the compound how do you know who to leave the car with ?.They have CC tv footage of the incident and of the guy in the compound and they also filed the police report. i had taken out all the usual insurance and the extra daily insurance they offer when you collect the car. Whats the point of all the insurance if they wont pay out when the car is stolen , I've had some sleep less nights since this happened . Any advice would be appreciated.


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    #2
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    first step:

    Cancel your credit card (or any other financial information the rental company may have from you) and get a different one.
    That way they can't take money without your consent.

    second step:
    get professional legal advice


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    #3
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    First off - stop losing sleep. You live in Europe and they operate in the US so there is no way they can get a penny from you.

    Secondly cancel the credit card you booked this car on immediately before they take any charges from it. Do not delay with this ring your bank now. Dont mention this incident to the bank just tell them you use the card a lot on the internet and change it every couple of years for security purposes.

    Thirdly just ignore this company.

    Problem over. Its not your issue if someone stole their hire car after you delivered it to their compound. Next time drop the keys to the desk.


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    #4
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    kmick wrote: »
    ....You live in Europe and they operate in the US so there is no way they can get a penny from you.....

    A contract exists, so it's entirely possible.


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    #5
    R.O.R
    Registered Users Posts: 12,685 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    And if it was one of the big hire car companies, they operate in Europe as well as the US. One in particular has most of it's European functions right here in Dublin.


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    #6
    mick.fr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭mick.fr


    kmick wrote: »
    First off - stop losing sleep. You live in Europe and they operate in the US so there is no way they can get a penny from you.

    Secondly cancel the credit card you booked this car on immediately before they take any charges from it. Do not delay with this ring your bank now. Dont mention this incident to the bank just tell them you use the card a lot on the internet and change it every couple of years for security purposes.

    Thirdly just ignore this company.

    Problem over. Its not your issue if someone stole their hire car after you delivered it to their compound. Next time drop the keys to the desk.

    I would not be so confident if I were you.
    For the price of a brand new car lost, it is worth for them to follow this in Europe.
    All it takes is just a court order from the US, and then send it to a court here for enforcement approval. Cheap procedure. All EU countries, including Ireland, have this type of process in place.
    Americans are very very keen to go through the all kind of thing.
    Even a simple speeding ticket, since many many years, in the US, you were almost sure to get it through the Embassy a couple of months later in your home country.


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    #7
    Dazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dazcon


    Good suggestion about the credit card ,will do that tonight. I'm guessing they are looking on it that since I didnt get a receipt or a signature when I came into the compound that it was still my responsibility. Then again the thief would have probably signed if I'd asked him so that argument shouldn't stand. I'll see what a solicitor has to say.
    I wondered how they would get the money out of me - would they send a bounty hunter -- or am I watching too much TV!


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    #8
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    They could get whatever is agreed on the contract. Get legal advice.


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    #9
    givyjoe81
    Closed Accounts Posts: 690 ✭✭✭givyjoe81


    Dazcon wrote: »
    Good suggestion about the credit card ,will do that tonight. I'm guessing they are looking on it that since I didnt get a receipt or a signature when I came into the compound that it was still my responsibility. Then again the thief would have probably signed if I'd asked him so that argument shouldn't stand. I'll see what a solicitor has to say.
    I wondered how they would get the money out of me - would they send a bounty hunter -- or am I watching too much TV!

    I wouldnt be getting too worried just yet, do cancel the card though. Yes it is a contract of course, so do you still have a copy of their terms and conditions? IF not go find them and check what it says regarding the procedure for dropping back the car, if you did as instructed on terms and conditions, then they do not have any case, also was this guy an opportunist theid, or did he work there? In many cased in all areas of business the guys who make these legal threats dont actually know the law so until you get legal letters rest easy.


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    #10
    Gwynston
    Registered Users Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Gwynston


    This happened to two colleagues of mine a few years ago on a business trip to Munich. Except that it was even more dodgy: On returning the rental car at the airport, they actually handed over the keys to some official-looking guy with a clipboard. It wasn't even in a compound as far as I'm aware! :rolleyes:

    As I remember, the police contacted them a few days later as the car was missing. I think the insurance covered the loss, but it was a business trip, so probably the all top-whack boxes were ticked and nothing excluded.


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    #11
    drdre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭drdre


    cancel the credit card asap and just ask the insurance company to send out another card with a new number.They should do that for you with no hassle as i have got it done before.Then just sit back and relax.:)


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    #12
    sharkman
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭sharkman


    drdre wrote: »
    cancel the credit card asap and just ask the insurance company to send out another card with a new number.They should do that for you with no hassle as i have got it done before.Then just sit back and relax.:)

    Insurance companies don't issue Credit Cards !!!!:D

    Back on subject , I used to work in customer relations for one of the big Car Hire firms (#1)and the best advise would be to get legal advice immediately . They large companies have teams devoted to recouping losses , whether you are resident in the country the loss took place or not !

    Do you have a copy of your RA ? They will probably look for the deductible from you !


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    #13
    kmick
    Registered Users Posts: 3,375 ✭✭✭kmick


    Well get legal advice if you like but it is going to cost a lot. I would cancel the card and then adopt a wait and see approach. obviously if they can come after you over here then it makes it trickier. I would be surprised if they could though. I mean the procedure is they will claim from their insurance company and then if they can be bothered the Insurance company will come after you. I would make discrete enquiries to the Police Station for a copy of the incident report that the hire car company filed. See what it says and report back here for further advice.


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    #14
    drdre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭drdre


    sharkman wrote: »
    Insurance companies don't issue Credit Cards !!!!:D

    Hahah, I meant credit card company.Im having a bit of a bad day :(


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    #15
    MercMad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    kmick wrote: »
    Well get legal advice if you like but it is going to cost a lot. I would cancel the card and then adopt a wait and see approach. obviously if they can come after you over here then it makes it trickier. I would be surprised if they could though. I mean the procedure is they will claim from their insurance company and then if they can be bothered the Insurance company will come after you. I would make discrete enquiries to the Police Station for a copy of the incident report that the hire car company filed. See what it says and report back here for further advice.

    ............I think the problem is that because the OP handed the keys to someone technically it wasn't stolen and the rental agencies insurance are refusing to pay THEM. Therefore they want the OP to pay !

    I really dont have any advice, but wish the OP the best of luck !


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    #16
    BanzaiBk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭BanzaiBk


    MercMad wrote: »
    ............I think the problem is that because the OP handed the keys to someone technically it wasn't stolen and the rental agencies insurance are refusing to pay THEM. Therefore they want the OP to pay !

    I really dont have any advice, but wish the OP the best of luck !

    In his first post the OP says he left the keys in the car.

    Cancel your CC, contact your solicitor/get a solicitor. That's the best advice I could give I'm afraid.


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    #17
    Dazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dazcon


    Thanks for the advice, first off I cancelled my credit card so no more charges can be put through by them. Then visited my solicitor. The position is that I was entitled to take instruction from any staff member in their compound . It was up to them to make sure no one was posing as an employee . also once I entered their compound and was instructed to park by an "employee" I had effictively handed over the car to them . I think any more correspondance will be handled by solicitor in case I say the wrong thing.


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    #18
    PRND
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭PRND


    I work for a credit card company and can assure you that cancelling the card does not stop charges going onto it.

    If the hire car company got authorisation from your card issuer at the time of rental , which they will have, then the card issuer will pay that amount and then it will be the card issuer after you and not the rental company.


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    #19
    MercMad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    PRND wrote: »
    I work for a credit card company and can assure you that cancelling the card does not stop charges going onto it.

    If the hire car company got authorisation from your card issuer at the time of rental , which they will have, then the card issuer will pay that amount and then it will be the card issuer after you and not the rental company.

    .......yes but surely the pre-authorisation would be for roughly the amount of the rental and not for the full price of a new car !!


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    #20
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Do they not have an actual employee in this compound or is there loads of cars just sittign there with the keys in. This must be a regualr occurance if there is.


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    #21
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,400 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Dazcon wrote: »
    Then visited my solicitor. The position is that I was entitled to take instruction from any staff member in their compound . It was up to them to make sure no one was posing as an employee

    That's good news, you must be relieved. Let us know on this thread about any further developments!


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    #22
    PRND
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭PRND


    It depends on the rental contract. If he has signed the contract and they have a physical imprint of his card or else an electronic receipt to show they have had it in their possession then they might not need an auth.

    The bottom line though is that closing your account is not enough to stop charges being applied.

    People often pay their tv license by credit card, close their account and then 10 months or so later they get a recurring debit.


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    #23
    MercMad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    PRND wrote: »
    It depends on the rental contract. If he has signed the contract and they have a physical imprint of his card or else an electronic receipt to show they have had it in their possession then they might not need an auth.

    The bottom line though is that closing your account is not enough to stop charges being applied.

    People often pay their tv license by credit card, close their account and then 10 months or so later they get a recurring debit.

    .....good info indeed !

    I never knew that about the TV licence, how do you reclaim the money if your customer has closed the account ?

    Sorry to go OT !


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    #24
    DonJose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    Thats strange, I've rented cars in Chicago and New York and whenever I've left the car back the employees told me to leave the keys in the car, but they always issued me a receipt. Also when leaving the compund I had to hand in my rental agreement at a security box before I could leave. Strnage how they let a guy out without a rental agreement.


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    #25
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Dazcon wrote: »
    Trouble was the guy in the compound was a scumbag who disappeared with the car. The hire company are now saying that my insurance is void because I didnt take care of the keys and allowed the car to be taken with the keys.
    How do you know that this wasnt a scam? It wouldn't take much to pay some young lad to drive the car out of the compound and around the block. How big was the hire company and was it a franchise?


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    #26
    MercMad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭MercMad


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    How do you know that this wasnt a scam? It wouldn't take much to pay some young lad to drive the car out of the compound and around the block. How big was the hire company and was it a franchise?

    ...........good point !


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    #27
    PRND
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭PRND


    Sorry to continue OT.

    You treat it like any other balance. Send a statement, request payment.

    If there is a recurring debit coming out such as tv license or electricity the customer has to contact that merchant and request them to stop.

    If there are unauthorised transactions following closure, the customer treats them like any other unauthorised transation. Firstly contact the merchant, ask them to reverse the debit and if they don't then the customer requests the card issuer to charge the transaction back.

    It may be an open and shut case and the issuer can either decide to make a refund instantly or decline the chargeback request instantly. It may require further information to make the above decisions or go to a arbitration committee.


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    #28
    Golferx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 251 ✭✭Golferx


    Dazcon wrote: »
    T................Then visited my solicitor. The position is that I was entitled to take instruction from any staff member in their compound . It was up to them to make sure no one was posing as an employee . also once I entered their compound and was instructed to park by an "employee" I had effictively handed over the car to them . I think any more correspondance will be handled by solicitor in case I say the wrong thing.

    May I wish you the best in getting this resolved but I doubt your solicitor's advice will be the end of the matter. No doubt they will be able to pay a lawyer to give opposing advice.

    I've routinely canceled credit cards after returning rental cars to prevent unauthorised transactions. FA good they are if you cannot do that.


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    #29
    Dazcon
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭Dazcon


    Good news . Just got confirmation that the insurers have closed this case. They reviewed the police report and the cctv footage and decided it was stolen from the location and not from me. I can now breathe a sigh of relief and work out how to spend the 27K they were going to charge me !!
    Let that be a lesson to all who use hire cars .........


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    #30
    drdre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭drdre


    Dazcon wrote: »
    Good news . Just got confirmation that the insurers have closed this case. They reviewed the police report and the cctv footage and decided it was stolen from the location and not from me. I can now breathe a sigh of relief and work out how to spend the 27K they were going to charge me !!
    Let that be a lesson to all who use hire cars .........


    Thats great news.Well done


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    #31
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,400 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Dazcon wrote: »
    Good news . Just got confirmation that the insurers have closed this case. They reviewed the police report and the cctv footage and decided it was stolen from the location and not from me. I can now breathe a sigh of relief and work out how to spend the 27K they were going to charge me !!
    Let that be a lesson to all who use hire cars .........

    Excellent! Thanks for reporting back here


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