Who uses side lights?

Gwynston

Lex, fair enough if you use side lights all the time and you're on the ball enough to switch on the dipped mains as soon as visibility is reduced (like you said you tend to do in winter). But what bugs me is people who have made the conscious decision to turn the light switch to sides and specifically NOT mains in conditions where sides are obviously pathetic. :mad:

IMO that almost makes them worse than people with NO lights on at all in poor visibility - they might at least be just inattentive. But people who specifically choose to turn the switch to an inadequate position are plain stoopid!

I ask again though:
You clearly think sides are sufficient in bright conditions? Even though research has shown that dipped mains make you more visible, even in daylight?

Gwynston

craichoe wrote: »

No .. its the same thing, just full voltage vs reduced voltage. Its an environmental argument. Increased fuel usage vs safety. Having a legal requirement to have an automatic switch is not the same thing as being legally required to have them turned on.

OK, but I still think the "muppets" BrianD3 was referring to were people using actual fog lights, not DRLs.

I can't recall ever seeing US-style DRLs on any cars here. Are you sure "pretty much all cars" have them now? The only ones I've seen would be on Swedish makes, but they just look like automatically-on headlights to me.

Can you give some examples in case I'm still misunderstanding you? Are you saying the fog lights are used as DRLs at reduced voltage? Can't say I've seen that as an option on any models....

Marcus.Aurelius

Gwynston wrote: »

Where do you get the idea that dipped headlights are unnecessary in light rain? If we agree that DRL are still a good idea on a bright day, surely they'd be even better in the rain?

Who's we?? I never agreed with you!

Besides the cost of running the headlamps all the time is considerable, especially environmentally. Automatic headlamp systems like the Volvo systems are not that effective really. Data from those countries who have mandatory dipped headlamps cannot be relied on for a comparison here due to the severity of the winters in scandinavian countries and the amount of darkness they have as a result.

BrianD3

Gwynston wrote: »

OK, but I still think the "muppets" BrianD3 was referring to were people using actual fog lights, not DRLs.

Correct. I wasn't even aware that foglights could be used as DRLs. The vast majority of cars on the Irish market fitted with foglights have "actual" foglights - low down, separate from main light units, separate switch, only to be used in fog etc. What I do see is eejits driving in dusk or even dark with sidelights and these foglights on.

Another type of muppet drives with main beams on facing oncoming traffic and only "dips" at the last second. When they dip it then becomes apparant why they blinded everyone - their dipped beams don't work so when they dip all they have are sidelights and so they can't see where they're going.

Gwynston

maoleary wrote: »

Who's we?? I never agreed with you!

That's why I said "if" !

Yeah I understand some of the arguments against DRLs, but I was wondering why you thought side lights were sufficient in light rain when dipped mains would clearly be even more visible.

And in Scandinavia, it's not all about the poor winters and short daylight. I've visited a few times and found DRLs a huge benefit in many situations, even on sunny days. Side lights would not have done.

craichoe

Gwynston wrote: »

OK, but I still think the "muppets" BrianD3 was referring to were people using actual fog lights, not DRLs.

I can't recall ever seeing US-style DRLs on any cars here. Are you sure "pretty much all cars" have them now? The only ones I've seen would be on Swedish makes, but they just look like automatically-on headlights to me.

Can you give some examples in case I'm still misunderstanding you? Are you saying the fog lights are used as DRLs at reduced voltage? Can't say I've seen that as an option on any models....

Mark 1 Octavia, Mark 4 Golf, Mk 1 Seat Leon, Audi A4, S4
Half turn - Running Lights
Full Turn - Dips
Full Turn out 1 Notch, Dips + Front Fogs
Full Turn out 2 Notches, Dips + Front and back Fogs.

Fog lights in the Octavia are in the Headlight assembly.

Gran Hermano

maoleary wrote: »

Data from those countries who have mandatory dipped headlamps cannot be relied on for a comparison here due to the severity of the winters in scandinavian countries and the amount of darkness they have as a result.

Don't forget that whilst it might get dark very early in Sweden in the
middle of winter the opposite is true in the middle of the summer.
You might only get 4 hours of darkness at mid-summer.
They do not have DRLs compulsory for winter only/

Once LED lights become more common the fuel and power consumption
argument goes out the window.

Gwynston

craichoe wrote: »

Mark 1 Octavia, Mark 4 Golf, Mk 1 Seat Leon, Audi A4, S4
Half turn - Running Lights
Full Turn - Dips
Full Turn out 1 Notch, Dips + Front Fogs
Full Turn out 2 Notches, Dips + Front and back Fogs.

Fog lights in the Octavia are in the Headlight assembly.

That seems pretty similar to Fords except that the "half turn" would be side lights. Those little tiny bulbs sometimes next to the indicators, or recessed inside the main light housing.

Do those VAG models you mention actually use the fog lights at a reduced brightness for running lights?

craichoe

Gwynston wrote: »

That seems pretty similar to Fords except that the "half turn" would be side lights. Those little tiny bulbs sometimes next to the indicators, or recessed inside the main light housing.

Do those VAG models you mention actually use the fog lights at a reduced brightness for running lights?

Exactly like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/Lowbeam_DRL.jpg

Varies slightly on the model i believe.

Some use the fogs, some don't .. Never really checked tbh

Gwynston

Ah OK! Thanks for the pic - that illustrates it clearly. So they're brighter than just side lights then?

Also, in that pic, is that a little side light bulb I see in the adjacent light housing? How does that come on? It didn't seem to be in your switch sequence.

craichoe

Gwynston wrote: »

Ah OK! Thanks for the pic - that illustrates it clearly. So they're brighter than just side lights then?

Also, in that pic, is that a little side light bulb I see in the adjacent light housing? How does that come on? It didn't seem to be in your switch sequence.

Nope.. its just a focal point, I know this because i had to fit beam benders for driving on the continent a couple of weeks ago

Gegerty

Not trying to be smart but if you can't see another car in broad daylight or even dim daylight then you're either a) otherwise pre-occupied, maybe with your mobile phone or b) blind and should not be on the road. Lights are for when its dark, otherwise I keep them off. "Side lights" or parking lights as they are correctly called are for when you are parked so you are not blinding people.

When a car coming the opposite direction has its lights on you will focus away from it, usually towards the kerb. how is this safe? It's a necessity when its dark but people driving around in broad daylight blinding people with their lights are more of a hazzard. It's not a magical invisible air bag, its not going to save your life its complete rubbish.

Gwynston

At the risk of this turning into a DRL debate, it's been proven that lights on in the day make you more visible. And by definition, the more visible you are, the less likely someone will have an accident with you having not seen you for whatever reason.

Do you not agree that a motorbike with lights on in the day makes them much more visible to the typical quick glance most people make before pulling out of a side toad?

If so, even a bigger car will be more visible to that same quick glance if it has lights on.

Haven't you ever seen someone pulling out from a side road in front of a car, having not seen it properly? It happens all the time.

Go to Scandinavia - lights aren't just for the dark - by law.

Gwynston

And to reply to your sneaky edit:

Are you seriously saying you have to look away from a car in broad daylight with dipped lights on because they dazzle you? If so, I suggest you get your eyes examined. How can you possibly see ANYTHING at night time????

ninty9er

Gegerty wrote: »

Not trying to be smart but if you can't see another car in broad daylight or even dim daylight then you're either a) otherwise pre-occupied, maybe with your mobile phone or b) blind and should not be on the road. Lights are for when its dark, otherwise I keep them off. "Side lights" or parking lights as they are correctly called are for when you are parked so you are not blinding people.

When a car coming the opposite direction has its lights on you will focus away from it, usually towards the kerb. how is this safe? It's a necessity when its dark but people driving around in broad daylight blinding people with their lights are more of a hazzard. It's not a magical invisible air bag, its not going to save your life its complete rubbish.

If you move towards the kerb for oncoming traffic, I'd be more worried about you than the other cars...you DEFINITELY need to have your lights on to be seen by other based on what you told us!!

OT - how would I(with no electrical knowledge) hook my lights up to be auto DRL as my mam uses the parking lights in my car and it really bugs me!!

Gegerty

Gwynston wrote: »

At the risk of this turning into a DRL debate, it's been proven that lights on in the day make you more visible. And by definition, the more visible you are, the less likely someone will have an accident with you having not seen you for whatever reason.

Do you not agree that a motorbike with lights on in the day makes them much more visible to the typical quick glance most people make before pulling out of a side toad?

If so, even a bigger car will be more visible to that same quick glance if it has lights on.

Haven't you ever seen someone pulling out from a side road in front of a car, having not seen it properly? It happens all the time.

Go to Scandinavia - lights aren't just for the dark - by law.

I agree with you that people don't see other cars all the time. There are crashes all the time for this reason. I don't agree putting your lights on is the solution. Teaching people to be aware is the real solution. Being a cyclist I can say without doubt that there are people out there who simply do not look. A light flashing in their mirror is bound to catch their attention (or a tap on the car works too I find), but is this really the solution? How about having a proper look out for cyclists/motorbikes/other cars before you turn at that junction?

I could be wrong but I think its law in Scandinavia due to their lack of daylight.

Gwynston

No, it's law all year round in Scandinavia - even in mid summer when they have up to 20 hours of daylight!

I agree that drivers could be more vigilant when pulling out to prevent accidents, but people aren't perfect. If they were, we wouldn't need seatbelts or any of the other safety innovations that have been welcomed in the past 5 decades.

But drivers make mistakes, so anything to help prevent that is to be welcomed - like making cars more visible.

Eoin

My Alfa 156 was handy for this, because I could just leave the dipped lights on the whole time. When the engine was turned off (or key removed - can't remember which), both the dipped and side lights would turn off automatically, without any warning noises. This meant I never had to turn the lights on or off. That said, I've no idea how I would have used the sidelights as parking lights without the key in the ignition.

On my current car, the side lights are pretty bright - I replaced the candelight inner bulbs with outer CCFL "angel eyes". They may not illuminate particularly well, but they certainly help the visibility. My GPS display automatically switches to night time mode, so turn on my dipped beams then if I haven't already done so.

zilog_jones

I'd use parking lights (they're not on the sides in my Fiesta) when parked while waiting in the car in the dark, or when I'm facing the sun so the instrument panel lights go on (so I can actually see them). I use dipped beams whenever it's dark - even if it's just very cloudy.

Are amber-coloured sidelights illegal here? I've seen a few modded Civics around with them - I guess they bought US spec lights off eBay or something (as they're allowed over there).

Gwynston

Just to resurrect my rant:

Saw a few people driving this morning with just side lights on in misty, wet conditions. From a distance, you couldn't see them at all. You could just make out a hazy dark blob of the car itself, which had me grumbling to myself about them not using any headlights, only to realise when they got closer, that they actually had side lights on, but they were no help whatsoever from a distance!

A large proportion of them were vans and trucks. What do these drivers think they're achieving by only using side lights in such poor visibility? Turn the bloody switch one more notch, eejits! :mad:

Lex Luthor

Gwynston wrote: »

Lex, fair enough if you use side lights all the time and you're on the ball enough to switch on the dipped mains as soon as visibility is reduced (like you said you tend to do in winter).

Its not just a case of being visible from the front but also from the rear and that is why I always have the parking lights on during summer time.
Once the clocks go back its dipped lights all the time no matter what time of day

eoin_s wrote: »

My Alfa 156 was handy for this, because I could just leave the dipped lights on the whole time. When the engine was turned off (or key removed - can't remember which), both the dipped and side lights would turn off automatically, without any warning noises. This meant I never had to turn the lights on or off.

Have to agree Eoin. I never have to think about my lights being on or not. Just by leaving the switch in teh parking or dipped position depending on time of year I always know my lights are on.

However, every time I drive my wifes car I am always getting out and leaving the lights on and wondering what the buzzer going off is for.:rolleyes:

Hotwheels

Yup same thing, when I collected the 159 I turned on the lights and they are never off, cept when the car is switched off...its handy not having to worry about switching them off..
Met plenty this morning with their candles lit, IMO a torch would be better

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Its not just a case of being visible from the front but also from the rear and that is why I always have the parking lights on during summer time.
Once the clocks go back its dipped lights all the time no matter what time of day





Have to agree Eoin. I never have to think about my lights being on or not. Just by leaving the switch in teh parking or dipped position depending on time of year I always know my lights are on.

However, every time I drive my wifes car I am always getting out and leaving the lights on and wondering what the buzzer going off is for.:rolleyes:

Andrewf20

BrianD3 wrote: »

-Muppets with two blown dipped headlight bulbs but too tight/stupid to replace them so they drive along on a combination of sidelights, mainbeams and front fogs

Very common. It nags me if I have a bulb blown, so I keep a spare in the glovebox. And while we are on the subject, what a rip off Halfords are. They wanted 10 euro for a bulb and I got one in the local motor factors for 3.50.

pclancy

Totally agree with daytime dip lights on, sidelights are for parking in a dangerous plcae and that only. If you're driiving your dips should be on, stopped they should be off and just parking lights or parking lights and hazards.

You have to remember that most people wouldnt bother reading the manual for their car or know what the difference is between those lights, they might turn em on a notch during the day for rain/mist/fog but only realise they dont have their dips on when it gets really ddark and they cant see anything! Its driver ignorance, they're never taught and they never learn themselves.

Plus some do genuinly think headlights "drain the battery" or waste the buld life if they're on during the day.