Microsoft Starts New Ban Wave on LIVE Against Modified Firmwares

Helix

coolhandc wrote: »

how much i spend on games?maybe buy 2/3 games a year.

ive bought that in the last week, yet im damaging the scene?

roughly id say i spend maybe €1000-€1200 a year on games, thats not including consoles, and its ME whos the problem?

lol

TheDoc

i purchase all my games that i play for xbox, as the topic is talking about. Today i just splashed over 250 euro on 4 games.

please make sure you READ properly before you go making accusations please.

And everyone does download PC SOFTWARE, MUSIC, FILMS....fact...

even watching streams online.

lets not be daft and pretend it doesnt happen it does, but we are talking about consoles here, which i have never owned a chipped console and ever will.

i pay full whack for my console gaming. And pc gaming for that matter.

coolhandc

as long as your illegally downloading games then you are a problem for the industry.
i actually have a life,so forgive me for not spending E1200 a year on games.

and dm we are now talking about mod consoles AND downloading games.i dont see your point,are you telling me you support illegal downloads and that we shouldnt go out and buy them?and then tell me you buy them anyway?

Helix

coolhandc wrote: »

as long as your illegally downloading games then you are a problem for the industry.

but i buy more games than you, therefore i put more money into the industry, so how am i a problem for it?

coolhandc

piracy is a problem for the industry and that is what you are advocating.

joe bloggs has a nice investment account in a bank.he makes regular enough deposits.
john bloggs has a bigger investment account and deposits more frequently.
however,john bloggs sometimes robs the cashiers at the bank and never gets caught.

is that a problem for the bank?!

Nerin

piracy is a problem for the industry and that is what you are advocating.

joe bloggs has a nice investment account in a bank.he makes regular enough deposits.
john bloggs has a bigger investment account and deposits more frequently.
however,john bloggs sometimes robs the cashiers at the bank and never gets caught.

is that a problem for the bank?!

lol thats some example

Helix

coolhandc wrote: »

piracy is a problem for the industry and that is what you are advocating.

joe bloggs has a nice investment account in a bank.he makes regular enough deposits.
john bloggs has a bigger investment account and deposits more frequently.
however,john bloggs sometimes robs the cashiers at the bank and never gets caught.

is that a problem for the bank?!

lmao

oh dear

kleefarr

But isn't this the FREE alternative?

HERE



If only I could get on it! :mad:

Nerin

ha exactly,i think youve just made this thread useless.
microsoft may ban,but everyone could still just use kai.

kleefarr

nerin wrote: »

ha exactly,i think youve just made this thread useless.
microsoft may ban,but everyone could still just use kai.

Do you?

Nerin

not an xbox guy,im a psp guy.
but i really still should try sort out kai so i can play monster hunter freedom 2 with people

kleefarr

nerin wrote: »

not an xbox guy,im a psp guy.
but i really still should try sort out kai so i can play monster hunter freedom 2 with people

Doesn't it support a lot of different gaming consoles? (I think it does.)

Have you used Kai before?

trellheim

Toyota design a new car ....

they sell that car through main dealers ...

soon those cars show up on 2nd hand dealers forecourts.

Toyota see no money from the continued resale over a 10-20 year period of these lovely motors.

However, they still continue to produce new cars and turn a profit from time to time

Is that so shocking ?

A similar argument applies to console or PC games . Who cares about 2nd hand sales of Gaming Software .

kleefarr

I was just wondering, how many people have bought a Vinyl version of an album only to buy the Tape Cassette version when that came out and then the CD version?

Paying for the the same album three times that's where they get their money.

Helix

before i got rid of my decks id a fair whack of stuff on vinyl and cd

Vikings

Helix wrote: »

but i buy more games than you, therefore i put more money into the industry, so how am i a problem for it?

Thats just plain ridiculous and there is absolutely no logic there.


Ok you spend about €1000 a year on games, whats that about 20 games? How many games would you download in a year? Judging by your posts im guessing its at least if not more than 20.

Had you of bought the games that you downloaded there would be another€1000 contributed towards the gaming industry.

So you are doing no damage wahtsoever by getting your items for free?

MikeHoncho

trellheim wrote: »

Toyota design a new car ....

they sell that car through main dealers ...

soon those cars show up on 2nd hand dealers forecourts.

Toyota see no money from the continued resale over a 10-20 year period of these lovely motors.

However, they still continue to produce new cars and turn a profit from time to time

Is that so shocking ?

A similar argument applies to console or PC games . Who cares about 2nd hand sales of Gaming Software .

You cant compare video games and cars. Car manufacturers accept that with such an expensive purchase they can not expect the consumer not to sell on the car when they are finished with it. If car manufacturers want people to be able to afford to buy new cars then people have to be able to sell their old cars. Its not the same for video games because they are not as expensive. Its not like the average consumer cant afford to buy COD4 until they can sell their copy of COD3.

TheDoc

if you went and properly read my posts, you would clearly see i dont support them, i merely said we all do it....

I dont go around giving links and telling people this and that. If downloading music etc is supporting piracy

then we are all guilty as charged

trellheim

Doesn't matter if its cars or games .... let's change the product...


It doesn't matter the principle is the same

Random House [ the largest publisher in the world ] release a new book ....

they sell that book through bookstores ...

soon those books show up on 2nd hand bookshops .

Random House see no money from the continued resale over a 10-20 year period of these lovely books .

However, they still continue to produce new books and turn a profit from time to time

Is that so shocking ?

A similar argument applies to console or PC games . Who cares about 2nd hand sales of Gaming Software .

Helix

Vikings wrote: »

Thats just plain ridiculous and there is absolutely no logic there.

course there is, being a dj it meant i could play stuff out that i had on vinyl

Vikings wrote: »

Ok you spend about €1000 a year on games, whats that about 20 games? How many games would you download in a year? Judging by your posts im guessing its at least if not more than 20.

30-40

Vikings wrote: »

Had you of bought the games that you downloaded there would be another€1000 contributed towards the gaming industry.

you kinda miss the point, i DO buy the games i download if theyre any use. the only money not being contributed towards the gaming industry is money for crap games, which im happy enough with

Vikings wrote: »

So you are doing no damage wahtsoever by getting your items for free?

again, no, im not. im doing less damage to the gaming industry than anyone who spends less than me on video games annually

Gegerty

Modding and piracy suits MS when they want. Majority of people bought the original Xbox because of its modding ability. They're not doing themselves any favour. Live is not so great that you'd want to go out and buy a new box after banning. Just means you will have to play your backup games offline. Not really a deterrant for most people I know anyway.

There's also the question of why should I be banned from a service I'm paying for? Why shouldn't I open up an item I have bought and own and do what I want with it? Why shouldn't I be allowed to backup my games which I have bought and own? There's no way of distinguishing pirates and honest modders who just get a kick from taking things apart and modifying them. Until there is MS should just face facts.

One more thing, people have been copying software from day1. I was around with the Spectrum, C64, Amiga etc and its always been the way. It's part of the industry and I don't buy into the talk of it being damaging to the industry. How can something that has always been around from day1 be damaging.

Helix

and STILL nobody has answered my question

what percentage of the 13,000,000 sold xbox 360s do you realistically think are modded, for this to be the absolutely phenomenally massive issue you all think it is? (bearing in mind there are currently almost 8,000,000 active xbox live users)

Vikings

Helix wrote: »

30-40

you kinda miss the point, i DO buy the games i download if theyre any use. the only money not being contributed towards the gaming industry is money for crap games, which im happy enough with

again, no, im not. im doing less damage to the gaming industry than anyone who spends less than me on video games annually

Ok so you download 40 games a year, that is €2000 that should be going towards to gaming industry.

Yet you think it is ok that it doesn't because the games are crap. How about this, if nobody bought the "crap" games then who pays for it to be made and all the associated costs?

Regardless of the fact that you buy 20 "good" games a year, you still download 40 "crap" games. Now lets forget about which games are good and which are crap and its left simple that you download twice as many games as you buy. That is damaging the industry whether you believe it or not or whether you agree or not.

Helix wrote: »

and STILL nobody has answered my question

what percentage of the 13,000,000 sold xbox 360s do you realistically think are modded, for this to be the absolutely phenomenally massive issue you all think it is? (bearing in mind there are currently almost 8,000,000 active xbox live users)

I never made it out to be a massive issue at all, it is damaging... crippling? No. Damaging all the same.

If even 2% of the 13 million 360's sold are being used to play pirated games that is 260,000 consoles. Now if every one of those 260,000 consoles is used to play just 1 pirate game then that is €13,000,000 (at average €50 a game) worth of damage to the gaming industry. Though if those consoles were used to play lets say 40 pirated games - which is the amount that you play - then that is €520,000,000 worth of damage in a single year.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it - i'm not holier than thou - but for the love of god man stop trying to justify it.

Helix

youre mixing up potential sales with quantifiable losses tho

of the 40 games i download annually, the only ones which are quantifiable losses are the ones you can categorically say i would 100% definitely have bought if i didnt pirate. but the case for me is that i WILL buy the decent ones, so absolute quantifiable losses are €0

quantifiable gains however from me personally would be roughly 30-40% of my video games spending, as these are games i wouldnt have bought had i not downloaded first

your way of looking at it is far too simplistic to be remotely realistic. youre assuming that every game downloaded is a lost sale, when the fact is that only a tiny fraction of pirated games are actually lost sales

and im not justifying it in general, im justifying it for me because whether or not im the exception to the point, for me piracy results in more of my money being spent on video games

im not saying its the same for everyone. you however are

ongarite

Another round of Live bannings this weekend. Looks like MS have found a way to detect the C4EVA firmwares this time around.

NewBalance

Helix wrote: »

youre mixing up potential sales with quantifiable losses tho

of the 40 games i download annually, the only ones which are quantifiable losses are the ones you can categorically say i would 100% definitely have bought if i didnt pirate. but the case for me is that i WILL buy the decent ones, so absolute quantifiable losses are €0

quantifiable gains however from me personally would be roughly 30-40% of my video games spending, as these are games i wouldnt have bought had i not downloaded first

your way of looking at it is far too simplistic to be remotely realistic. youre assuming that every game downloaded is a lost sale, when the fact is that only a tiny fraction of pirated games are actually lost sales

and im not justifying it in general, im justifying it for me because whether or not im the exception to the point, for me piracy results in more of my money being spent on video games

im not saying its the same for everyone. you however are

Piracy is theft - and it's difficult to convince people you are a 'Robin Hood' type character only stealing the bad and buying the good.

How you can say piracy results in more money being spent on games amazes me - less revenue for the Publishers/Developers means less money spent on games in development, means less small developers making a profit cos of pirates stealing their game and spreading it around on torrent sites.

Your argument of "only buying the good games so they get the money for the good games and make more good games" is totally flawed - sh*te games don't do well anyway, they may sell a few copies but not the Halo scale of things - all the while the little developers who come up with the good and innovative ideas go out of business cos of the happy band of Pirates are spreading the games around to people with modded/flashed xbox's/ps3/Wii's etc.

Also, piracey effects the Consoles makers themselves (M$, Sony, Nintendo), as they make a profit from the sale of the software too (notice the 'licensed' sign on the REAL games you have?) which is why they can sell the consoles at a lower/loss/cost price and why legitamate Games cost x amount

Basically, Piracey no matter how you justify, will in the end kill off your hobby or mean less games being produced due to the lack of profits - no excuses - there's no grey area here.

So go ahead, burn/flash/mod away all night long - cos no matter what we say you'll still do it - cos its free, its easy and you wont get caught.

thefinalstage

NewBalance wrote: »

Piracy is theft - and it's difficult to convince people you are a 'Robin Hood' type character only stealing the bad and buying the good.

How you can say piracy results in more money being spent on games amazes me - less revenue for the Publishers/Developers means less money spent on games in development, means less small developers making a profit cos of pirates stealing their game and spreading it around on torrent sites.

Your argument of "only buying the good games so they get the money for the good games and make more good games" is totally flawed - sh*te games don't do well anyway, they may sell a few copies but not the Halo scale of things - all the while the little developers who come up with the good and innovative ideas go out of business cos of the happy band of Pirates are spreading the games around to people with modded/flashed xbox's/ps3/Wii's etc.

Also, piracey effects the Consoles makers themselves (M$, Sony, Nintendo), as they make a profit from the sale of the software too (notice the 'licensed' sign on the REAL games you have?) which is why they can sell the consoles at a lower/loss/cost price and why legitamate Games cost x amount

Basically, Piracey no matter how you justify, will in the end kill off your hobby or mean less games being produced due to the lack of profits - no excuses - there's no grey area here.

So go ahead, burn/flash/mod away all night long - cos no matter what we say you'll still do it - cos its free, its easy and you wont get caught.

Piracy is copyright infringement not theft. The original owner still has use of the product.

There are two lines of thinking. The two dimensional people who think "Pirates are the cause of lost revenue" and three dimensional people who realise that "The pirates wouldn't have bought the game anyway so there is no lose there."

humanji

There's also the two dimensional people who don't realise that there are many people who would of bought the goods if there was no means of piracy because they want them and have no other way of getting them.

mcgovern

humanji wrote: »

There's also the two dimensional people who don't realise that there are many people who would of bought the goods if there was no means of piracy because they want them and have no other way of getting them.

And then there is the people who realise that those who download pirated music, also [i[purchase[/i] more music than almost any other group.
Remember a lot of people download as a trial per se, and if its good, then they buy it.
So the copyright owners might lose out with lower sales on crap films/albums etc. but its counter-acted by increased sales on quality releases (I know I've bought stuff that I never would have, had I not downloaded it first).

humanji

mcgovern wrote: »

And then there is the people who realise that those who download pirated music, also [i[purchase[/i] more music than almost any other group.
Remember a lot of people download as a trial per se, and if its good, then they buy it.
So the copyright owners might lose out with lower sales on crap films/albums etc. but its counter-acted by increased sales on quality releases (I know I've bought stuff that I never would have, had I not downloaded it first).

That's one section of the group (that I'm apart of). But there are people here that are pretending that they only download things they don't want (there's little reason asking why they bother, then if they don't want them). There's no point justifying it. It's a crime. You don't have to stop, (although some would like you to), but there's no point lying to yourself about it.