Microsoft Starts New Ban Wave on LIVE Against Modified Firmwares

TheDoc

i think this is agood thread and props to the mods for not locking it and encouraging a very intellegent discussion.

dont ban me for the following, just edit or remove

an example this year for me would have been where i had a multimedia project that requires flash. So we all had to go out and buy flash.

Now we looked around and could only get this massive bundle with flash, photoshop and loads of ****, for 350 euro

now im sorry, but i cant justify paying 350 euro for a software piece that i used for 4 hours : /

so most of us downloaded trials or downloaded the full product.



I think too many people are jumping the gun saying piracy this piracy that. Theft, wrong.

If you have strong morals and a conscience then you are not going to do it. But you cannot really come here and change minds of those doing it, and have being for years and years.


What about ROMs? Ive had this discussion before, and told the difference is that these are ancient games and consoles, and that the developers got their due from it and will not get anymore...so its ok...

then whats wrong with me downloading a classical mozart song? he is not going to get anymore due from it? but yet im told its illegal?


what if i download a movie from the 60's? its not a big seller on dvd? yet its all so wrong


i think we need a bit of clarity, some people download some dont

i cant honestly say i download stuff as trial, some things i want, i download, end off.

Roy Rogers

Spot on, Doc.

I don't have a chipped Xbox, but if I could chip it and get away with playing pirated games, I would.

The point Helix made about quantifiable losses is a great one; there's no way I'd buy 10% of the music I download, regardless of whether or not I had access to it. That's just the way it is. He also made a great point about 2nd hand games sales -- I'd agree that there is zero real difference in pirating a game and buying it second-hand from GameStop.

At the same time, I don't kid myself that what I'm doing isn't morally shady in a way. But honestly, if I could walk into any shop and shoplift what I wanted with a maybe 0.01% chance of getting caught, I'd be robbing places left right and centre. Especially if the money I would have paid wouldn't have gone to the producers of the goods in the first place.

Helix

humanji wrote: »

That's one section of the group (that I'm apart of). But there are people here that are pretending that they only download things they don't want (there's little reason asking why they bother, then if they don't want them). There's no point justifying it. It's a crime. You don't have to stop, (although some would like you to), but there's no point lying to yourself about it.

in the last 2 1/2 months ive bought the following ps3 games which i had previously downloaded for the 360:

call of duty 4
guitar hero 3
fifa 08
the orange box
need for speed pro street
skate
the godfather
virtua fighter 5
enchanted arms
need for speed carbon

would i have bought them had i not downloaded them first? for fifa and cod4, yes

for the rest, no

so theres 8 ps3 game sales gained from me downloading games for the 360 first, and those 8 games are probably more than 95% of users buy annually

so tell me, how much money do YOU put back into the industry annually? more than me? i doubt it

TheDoc

agree with helix totally

and some points made by others

I was contemplating buying hellgate london cause mates had it and loved it, but i was unsure, i didnt wna fork out 55 euro and not like it, pc games cant be refunded in most stores, plus the fact i wouldnt be in my right to change it.

So i downloaded the game, played it and hated it.

So

I saved myself the waste of 55 euro
IF I had of liked the game i would have gone and bought it, i needed it for online play. Hence having to buy it. So they woulda made their money off me.

But i didnt like it, after an hour or twos play, and deleted off my pc.

What harm has being done here please?

the only come back is?


"Well you woulda gone and bought the game and they got their money"So basically them just getting money for something i didnt like in the end.


This thread will go on forever i just saw a cd today form a new well known "artist" €25 euro, 9 tracks.....are you serious?

id enver buy the cd, but i might jsut download it since im going to cause her so much financial stress :P

give me a break with the tears for the industry, when i can save myself 80 euro to go to a gig by uploading myself to the venue, then ill listen to anti-piracy tears.

Helix

i think some people just honestly cant grasp the fact that some people will actually buy things if they like them

probably because those people wouldnt do the same themselves, but thats an indictment on them and its not my problem

i spend an absolute sh*tload on games a year, id probably only spend 1/4 of what i do if i didnt download them first

when you KNOW youre buying quality, you dont mind spending. if youre taking a risk every time you buy a game, youre going to buy far less

TheDoc

if only i could download ciggerettes...
id save a bundle

humanji

Helix wrote: »

so tell me, how much money do YOU put back into the industry annually? more than me? i doubt it

With my 360, ps3, wii and PC, you spent a fraction oh what I did. And as I said before, you're in a minority, who buys a game after downloading it. And as I said, most people couldn't be arsed spending money on something that they already have and got for free.

[quote=[DM]-TheDOC-] But i didnt like it, after an hour or twos play, and deleted off my pc.[/quote]
What if you liked it? Would you have run straight to Game, thrown your money at them, grabbed the disk and run home to continue playing?

[quote=[DM]-TheDOC-]give me a break with the tears for the industry, when i can save myself 80 euro to go to a gig by uploading myself to the venue, then ill listen to anti-piracy tears.[/quote]

F*ck the industry, they've been ripping us off for years. The only point I was making is that pretending that there's no damage caused by pirating is pointless. It may not cause companies to go bankrupt, and no one will lose any sleep, but it does have an effect.

Vikings

Roy Rogers wrote: »

But honestly, if I could walk into any shop and shoplift what I wanted with a maybe 0.01% chance of getting caught, I'd be robbing places left right and centre.

I was going to reply to the latest string of responses to this thread... but after rereading the above quote I decided against it. I don't think I need to do anything more than simply quote the above in response.

Seriously, this guy above is agreeing with you about downloading games - and then makes a direct comparison to theft. This is from a supporter of downloading games! He has just made my argument for me.

Helix

humanji wrote: »

With my 360, ps3, wii and PC, you spent a fraction oh what I did.

i was only talking about the last 2 1/2 months, and that list was only games i bought that i already had on 360

ive had my ps3 2 1/2 months and ive bought 24 games to date (yes im frivolous with my money lol)

Helix

Vikings wrote: »

I was going to reply to the latest string of responses to this thread... but after rereading the above quote I decided against it. I don't think I need to do anything more than simply quote the above in response.

Seriously, this guy above is agreeing with you about downloading games - and then makes a direct comparison to theft. This is from a supporter of downloading games! He has just made my argument for me.

if you steal something physical from a shop, thats a quantifiable physical object gone off their shelves that theyve paid for that cannot be sold

if i download a game, theres absolutely no way of saying its a lost sale