ATH2: Defending champ Vince135792003

Double C

AJ would do well on Smackdown. He's no good on the mic though, unless he's calling the fans faggots which always got a laugh out of me. Couture would send shock waves through the industry if he signed for WWE, but the fact that he's not a pro wrestler makes me think his success would be very short lived and therefore would make a minimal impact overall.

I think quite a lot of WWE fans would know about Sting because of his legacy and references to him on WWE DVD's like the the Four Horsemen one. He would certainly be more well known than the TNA guys like Joe and AJ.


In response to question 2, I'm gonna go with Bret Hart in 1997. There were factors leading up to this, starting with the "Lost my Smile" promo Michaels made that Kennedy has referred to on Raw recently. Basically Shawn siad he was injured and forfeited the title meaning he wouldn't have to drop it to Bret at WM 13. There was always that kayfabe feeling I got from Bret and there was a noticeable bitterness in Bret after this. The fans loved HBK and therefore began to dislike Hart, obviously picking up on Bret's bitterness, especially after Bret accused Michaels of faking the injury!

At WM 13 Bret ended up having the match of his career against Austin. He had the sharpshooter locked on and referee Ken Shamrock called the match in Bret's favour after Austin passed out, but Bret refused to let go of the hold, resulting in Bret officially turning heel, and Austin becoming one of the most successful and marketable babyfaces ever. The repercussions of this double turn would prove to be huge.

Bret went on to reform the Hart Foundation and thus began his anti American assault. Hart was booed out of every building in the United States, but was treated as a hero everywhere else. This made for some great tv leading into the great match at Calgury Stampede. This kind of thing would never work in the modern industry as well as it did in 1997, mainly because of Bret and the way the Canadian fans worshipped him.

Another great thing about this heel run was the Bret, over time, exposed the commentator Vince McMahon to be the owner of WWE with a number of worked shoot promos. This made for more great tv leading into Survivor Series and the Montreal Screwjob. It also led the generation of the character Mr McMahon which really exploded in 1998 in the feud with the now babyface Austin (thanks to Bret ).

I loved this heel turn. It's a good thing I watched a DVD about the lead up to the Montral Screwjob recently because it reminded me about how awesome it all as.


Edit: Just read the question, this may not have been the most unexpected heel turn, but at the same time, no one could have seen what happened after coming. I'm stubborn so I'm not going to change it

Bounty Hunter

Bubs101 wrote: »

That's your 3rd quote and thus doesn't warrant a response as you're allowed 2 per round not to mention the fact that you didn't make much of an argument in your original post so there was not much to make a counter argument.

actually you can counter anyone and everyones arguements if you wish but only once each (i.e one counter arguement for each poster at maximum) so as to avoid going off topic and round in circles. technically Richie Lawlor did quote and reply to Bubs101 twice but one was defending his arguement after a counter and the other (although not too helpfull prehaps) suggesting another poster wasnt answering what was asked.

honestly i think this is a bogus question because there are only a very few wrestlers that have not been in WWE before that could make

prehaps, thats an argueable point although it did get a whole lot more discussion going even Fozzie wants to get involved with this round

flahavaj

I don't think its fair for me to but in here as I've been WAY too busy to give this any proper attention the last few days but I will echo Fozzy's sentiment that there are some VERY questionable opinions being expressed in this thread!!!;)

Danger_Dave

gimmick wrote: »

To be fair, the Dudleys were totally stale toward their last run in WWE. So a fresh run would not bring any excitement.

The dudleys were stale enough at the end of their last run in the wwe true. A new fresh run however i feel would really impact the wwe in a whole. If the dudleys were brought and the WWE decided to push the tag division again, would in turn have a very significant impact on the WWE, look at all the PPV's with no tag defense, No mercy, instead of a title defense we have a 6 man tag , that was a joke, cade & murdoch could have defended that against any tag but they did not and instead we got a god awful match.

With the dudleys and the wwe pushing the division, PPV's , RAW/Smackdown would be much stronger. I want tag matches that are not just toilet break material, or something HHH can boost his ego with, or a team to partner some single guys in a feud.

Also was a tough Question theres not a great amount of talent that could have the impact i think we all expect from a wrestler into the wwe.

Bounty Hunter

ATH:Round 4
Q.If you could move one single WWE superstar from one brand to another, who would you choose? where would you move them to? and why would you make this choice over any other?

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Danger Dave- The Dudleys were established former WWE starts so once again despite putting forward a decent arguement for them you didnt exactley answer the question and lost points.

Richie Lawlor- Perhaps you didnt like the question but you spent far more time detracting from other peoples arguments than making your own, which was only about 3lines so it was hard to give it a good score.

Danger_Dave

BH i dont know if you looked but i changed my answer to the heel turn question after you posted that the hogan one didnt count, so was just wondering did you mark me for my HBK vs Hogan turn ?.


ATH:Round 4
Q.If you could move one single WWE superstar from one brand to another, who would you choose? where would you move them to? and why would you make this choice over any other?

HHH to Smackdown, Controversial yes but for a good reason. The reason being simple, Smackdown is the WWE 2nd brand, this perception needs to change, Smackdown should be viewed as WWE another WWE show, what better way to do this is to have the most influential wrestler in the business at the moment go to Smackdown. If HHH went to smackdown, you automatically would have more people watch the show.

Why would more people watch Smackdown?, these boards are a very good example, We either love him or hate him, i do bitch about some of the stuff he does. I hate seeing HHH burying people and get world title after world title, but i can never force myself to change the channel when hes on air, i wanna see what else hes gonna do. With HHH over on smackdown, you'd want to see what hes going to do next add to that he's almost certainly going to be after the belt. Think of the feuds Edge/taker/Botchtista/Khali/, also i just liek to see a feud between him and Finlay get to see a good match. Also if he were to stay on Smackdown for a significant period of time we would see him bring up MVP / Matt hardy to the main event.

Another bonus which i would see is that he could become GM, or Stephanie could come back which would get rid of Vicky Guerrero who if anyone saw smackdown last week, will agree with me on getting rid of her at least.

HHH moving to Smackdown would change perceptions of smackdown eventually.

P.S i know it will never happen but id like to see it happen.

Double C

Undertaker to Raw. Maybe. More to follow.

rossie1977

i would move batista to raw.

raw is the flagship program and no matter how hard they try smackdown will always be seen as number two and so it (raw) should contain the top stars. Batista is the second most over guy on the roster at present behind cena and he has kind of run out of feuds on smackdown, how many more times are we going to see batista taking on undertaker and edge

Bringing batista over to raw would no doubt boost ratings on monday night and he would have a new batch of wrestlers to work with such as trips, michaels, orton, lashley and most of all cena. It was also breathe new life into the smackdown brand, i for one am so tried of batista main-eventing every single PPV on behalf of smackdown either as champ or challenger, when was the last time he didn't main event If batista left smackdown people like mvp, matt hardy and mysterio would then have to be pushed into the main event picture which would be a good thing for all concerned.

IMO cena and batista is the biggest drawing match the WWE can produce with the current roster, everybody knows it is only a matter of time before these guys clash at wrestlemania.

if i was vince and cena is fit for wrestlemania 24 i would book
batista (c) vs cena for the world title [cena to win]
trips (c) vs michaels for the wwe title [michaels to win]

Double C

OK, Undertaker to Raw.

Raw is devoid of decent main event level heels. We have our champion Randy Orton, who hasn't set the world on fire in his reign just yet, his lack of ability on the mic is really harming him. Then we have Umaga who I'm a fan of, but has been made look weak in past months. Then Kennedy, who everyone hates for all the wrong reasons. That is it. There is the possibility of HHH and Jericho turning heel down the line, but no time soon.

As Rossie said, Raw is the flagship show, so f*ck the other ones. (not a direct quote, but I read between the lines ) I would move the Undertaker to Raw and turn him heel. I'd like to see the evil cut-throat character return. He could have a first time feud with Jericho. He could work again with Cena, they last met in Cena's early run on Smackdown. He could take on Jeff Hardy again, they had that nice little mini-feud way back when. He could even work with Triple H again. But what he really needs to do on Raw is feud with Michaels again. The Royal Rumble only whetted our appetites, and I would love to see them get 6 months, with a Hell in a Cell blow off. (I know the HiaC is a bit overdone, but they were in the first, and best, match so why not do it again over 10 years later?)

Smackdown wouldn't miss him much, as he has done all there is to do there, and gone through the roster enough times. With the lines between SD and ECW becoming finer and finer each week I wouldn't be too surprised to see Morrison as champion there sooner or later. It will also allow the midcard guys like MVP and Hardy step up, and get Finlay in the main event circle too. I'm not sure about him as a face, hopefully he'll get a decent push, but anyway, I digress...

Undertaker to Raw, after losing to Edge at WM. He's pissed off so he starts killing everyone, giving him a good year on the main show before his retirement. (although, he is only 42 :eek:)

Rossie, I think Cena vs Batista is bound to happen, but I doubt it will be at WM, as Batista will be jobbing to Flair that night . I'm not sure how much longer Batista will have with the company, with the steroid allegations and problems back stage, although I haven't heard of any problems recently. He is just a faceless slab of meat with little talent. The more I think about it the more I think the reason he is so over is his entrance!! If he went, WWE would find someone to replace him in a flash. Cena and Batista does equal big bucks though.

Dave, I'd love to see HHH on SD, but I don't see it ever happening, HHH's ego would get in the way. It would be nice though, if only to keep him out of the title picture on Raw.

Bounty Hunter

Danger_Dave wrote: »

BH i dont know if you looked but i changed my answer to the heel turn question after you posted that the hogan one didnt count, so was just wondering did you mark me for my HBK vs Hogan turn ?.

i dont think i marked you for the HBK vs Hogan and instead marked you down a couple of points for answering on WCW when the question asked about WWE im just in from coaching i do but will review your answer to Rd2 and edit the scoreboard accordingly.

RichieLawlor

HBK Shawn Michaels to Smackdown.

I think as was pointed out Raw is the flagship show and moving one of smackdowns stars there would not be that big a deal. ( Undertaker vs Orton or HHH or Batista vs Orton or Cena or Edge back there, tbh i would have no interest in these)

On Raw DX (however popular has been done to death, as has HBK vs Orton. IMO Leave Raw to Jericho and move Shawn)

Now, moving HBK to Smackdown could set the show alight, Shawn could pull a decent match outta 'Taker or Batista (who lets face it, are popular but not exactly fantastic workers so with Shawn carrying the matches the fueds could really be something) not to mention the mouthwatering possibility of HBK vs MVP or Edge and of course Rey Mysterio. And i personally would love to see Shawn do a program with JBL.

A big name move from Raw to SD would create much more waves than one the other way especially if it was HBK

Bounty Hunter

Bubs and Gimmick (+anyone else who wants a go) you have till around 2 tommorow before i post the final rounds question

Bounty Hunter

ATH:Final Round
Q.Down the years many non-wrestling related celebraties have been used in angles in an attempt to raise ratings. wether it be Trump, K-Fed, Tyson or Muhammad Ali. If you could pick such a person to get involved in the WWE who would you choose? and why would they be such a good choice?

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current leader board
1. Rossie1977 (69)
2. Richie Lawlor (64)
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6. Bubs101 (49)
7. Flahavaj(17) - 1 round

Rosie1977 - Im Curious Batista to Raw is the one switch you mention yet you suggest batista (c) vs cena for the world title [cena to win], and trips (c) vs michaels for the wwe title [michaels to win] at Mania. if Batista was swapped all four of these guys would be on Raw. Do you think Raw should host both Heavyweight titles?
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one round to go now, Rosie1977 is definatley the No.1 Contender but all is still to be played for and especial considering both Bubs and Gimmick can give a late answer to Q4 for 10 points almost everyone can move up or down in the standings before the end.

rossie1977

if batista went full-time to raw he would leave without the title; the batista/cena and michaels/triple h were just suggestions as to the biggest drawing matches possible for WM24

anyways onto the last question i would choose somebody who loves wrestling, someone who attends WWE events every chance he get, someone who matches up very well with the wrestlers and who is a supreme athlete in his own right, a guy whom the WWE have hinted at working with in the past; step forward 7ft 1in, 335lb Shaquille O'Neal.

Shaq would be a huge draw for the WWE if the crowd knew he would be involved in a match with someone like khali or big show. Just sitting ringside at Survivor Series everyone was chanting his name during the khali/hornswoggle debacle. Shaq is the biggest name in the nba and unlike other nba giants he doesn't look like a toothpick. He is also best friends with the undertaker so the transition wouldn't be too hard. taker helps him with things like muscle building and weight training, he might have taught him a few wrestling holds along the way

an angle involving shaq would also get the WWE more coverage on the sports networks in the states, similar to the tyson and LT angles

Double C

I'm totally against bringing in non wrestlers. I think it's a horrible idea, and TNA bringing in Pacman Jones proved it. DX bringing in Tyson was cool in 96 (?) but I just don't see how anyone would benefit from it in the long run. It certainly didn't work for WCW. Sure the ratings would rise short term but that would be it.

Anyways, in answering the question, I would bring in Terrel Owens, the Dallas Cowboys wide receiver. Not only is he huge, fast and athletic, he is awesome in interviews. If a non wrestler is coming in, naturally enough they will suck in the ring so promos are their chance to shine. Pacman was terrible on the mic. T.O. oozes charisma and is a cocky guy. He also plays for Americas team, the Cowboys, so the media furore (which, I guess is the main part of all this) would be huge. He, along with Randy Moss, are the two best wide receivers in the league, they are the guys who score all the touchdowns!

Owens has had had a fair share of problems in this personal life, including a suicide attempt in 2006, but that was put down to an allergic reaction. He'll fit right in in the WWE so. (That's in bad taste, I apologise in advance!)

I saw him on the post show on Thursday night, after the Cowboys beat the Packers and he came out with the quality phrase "I love me some me!". So yeah, Terrel Owens, the next WWE superstar!!

RichieLawlor

totally agree with Double C here, stop bringing in non-wrestlers like trump k-fed and the like. its cheapening the product for me but seeing as i have to answer here goes...

Without a doubt this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner

i would bill him as "The man who tried to run Vince and WWE outta business" bring back bischoff as his sidekick. The trump angle was a farce but turner is a guy WWE fans could genuine Hate.

I would have him take over one of the shows, probably SmackDown and 'Compete' again with Vince and Raw. Ok obviously it is a lot like the 'Invasion' angle buy i never took Shane and Steph too seriously whereas TT HAS tried to do it before. Should get a really good month storyline wise outta it.

I think throwing celebrites into battle with WWE superstars whoever they are or how big they are would just bring it back to the days of David Arquette ( the talentless one) as WCW world champion.

So Turner it is for me

Bounty Hunter

Congratulations to ATH2 Champ Rossie1977

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Final leader board
1. Rossie1977 (87)
2. Richie Lawlor (82)
3. Double C (80)
4. Danger Dave (58)
5. Gimmick (51)
6. Bubs101 (49)
7. Flahavaj(17) - 1 round

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Kind of peeterd out near the end but despite only three posters competing in the final round its a credible victory for Rossie1977 who would have had to get at least 5 less points than double C or Richie Lawlor in the last round and his final answer was never going to be marked 15 or lower. I have a feeling the drop in participation near the end may have been due to the fact that it spans over 10days now as opposed to 5 in ath1 and despite the fact that, that gives you more time to submit answers it also means people have to have online capabilities time for 10days now whih isnt always the case.Either that or it was winner or bust as the only posters to feature in th final round were the three possible winners.

I probably will run this again but am not 100% sure it will be at the end of every month. I did this one only a few weeks after ATH1 when i thought the concept would be fresh in peoples minds and cos for the past two weeks i havent been working, but think prehaps this might work as a rare thing.

Its a goodway to stimulate friendly debate and conversations on different topics though and speaking of which, Fozzy/Flahavaj if your still interested i believ Q3 got a few raised eyebrows...care to elaborate.

thanks to those that took part and congrats again Rossie1977

RichieLawlor

Cheers, WP Rossie 1977 and everyone else

gimmick

Reason I issed out is because i was away for the cup final all weekend. Fair play to all anyway.

Bounty Hunter

btw if any of you ever think of, see or hear something that could make a good ATH style question (i.e which migh have several possible answers and that most people would be able to respond to) then drop us a PM and i might use them. i dont usually have pre-prepared set of questions but a few might be handy.