Bye Bye Gaeilge

timmywex

Compulsory Irish rule to be lifted for lawyers

Wednesday November 21 2007


THE Government is abolishing the requirement for barristers and solicitors to pass an Irish exam to practice their trade, writes Michael Brennan.


The move, which will anger Irish language groups, comes as the cabinet was told that the lack of Irish-speaking translators is causing serious delays in converting EU documents into Irish.

Foreign Affairs Minister Dermot Ahern has also urged his cabinet colleagues to use the Irish language more during their visits to the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers, to justify its inclusion as an official EU language.

A Government spokesman said the Irish language requirement for barristers and solicitors would be abolished as part of the forthcoming Miscellaneous Provisions Bill. It was part of move to abolish things which were no longer practical or realistic, he said.

The Oireachtas translation unit is currently helping the EU.



think this is a good thing on the whole anyway. Some people will disagree

NoQuarter

great, just means theirs one less exam for me to worry about, they have my vote...

Thirdfox

woot!

Tom Young

Its only at stage two in the Dail, not sure it will go this year!

Our man in Havana

When is the exam normally done? Is it before the FE1 exams?

UrbanFox

I applaud this move unreservedly as it is both practical and progressive. I am thinking in particular of other Europeans who will not now be burdened with the ridiculous necessity to learn a bloody awful language that they will never actually use in practice. :)

Any chance that the Kings Inns will widen the scope of qualifying law degrees to include those from outside Ireland ? I am holding my breath........

BTW what is the title of the Bill please ?

Tom Young

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=8245&&CatID=59

bert174

Is it true that the same Minister has little or no Irish himself?

Tom Young

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=8245&&CatID=59

CantGetNoSleep

Bond-007 wrote: »

When is the exam normally done? Is it before the FE1 exams?

You can do it any time and the certificate is valid for life once you pass it, a lot of law students do it during their undergraduate degree

Tom Young

Why Irish is 'probably' a good idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTNBmFveq2U&eurl=

XchampagneX

king-stew wrote: »

great, just means theirs one less exam for me to worry about, they have my vote...

mine too

EdgarAllenPoo

Woo freaking hoo. That makes things a hell of a lot easier for me. If someone wants their trial in Irish (they'll have a hard time getting one) let them get a gaelgoir lawyer. My brother's a garda and is required to be able to arrest and caution someone in Irish if they ask for it and it never happens. Maybe it does in gealteacht areas but I doubt there's enough gardai with competency in the language for that to be practical.

Shouldn't be mandatory in schools,law or law enforcement. If anything we should have to learn Polish but the less said about that the better.

johnnyskeleton

It's rubbish. It's yet another way the government can deflect criticism from themselves.

There are serious problems that need to be addressed in health, education & the housing market, and the government wastes their time on things like this, instead of leaving it to the legal professions to sort out for themselves.

The Irish exam is fine, and if anyone has a problem with it they can find ways around it (or study for a few hours and pass).

CantGetNoSleep

GDM wrote: »

Woo freaking hoo. That makes things a hell of a lot easier for me. If someone wants there trial in Irish (they'll have a hard time getting one) let them get a gaelgoir lawyer. My brother's a garda and is required to be able to arrest and caution someone in Irish if they ask for it and it never happens. Maybe it does in gealteacht areas but I doubt there's enough gardai with competency in the language for that to be practical.

Shouldn't be mandatory in schools,law or law enforcement. If anything we should have to learn Polish but the less said about that the better.

The day we have to learn Polish or I cant speak to a garda in my national language will be a very sad one indeed

EdgarAllenPoo

It might be fine for you if you can speak the language with a degree of fluency, that doesn't mean the garda can. It places a burden on a disproportionate amount of people compared to those who actually use it in thier day to day lives.

Also are there now not more fluent Polish speakers in Ireland than fluent Irish speakers and as such would they not have a similar claim that they should be able to deal with people in their language.

The way I see it the various Irish language requirements in certain aspects of Irish society (law, the gardai, schools) reflect an ideal of the people who drafted the constitution or played a part in the lead up to it. They don't reflect the reality of modern times.

The_Minister

This is rediculous IMO.
IIRC the Irish version of any law takes precedant over the English version, so effectively this move announces that it is ok for lawyers not to be basically competant in the language which the laws are actually written in!!

EdgarAllenPoo

The_Minister wrote: »

This is rediculous IMO.
IIRC the Irish version of any law takes precedant over the English version, so effectively this move announces that it is ok for lawyers not to be basically competant in the language which the laws are actually written in!!

As far as I know (and I'm open to correction here) the whole Irish takes precedence rule only applies to the constitution. As in "where a conflcit arises in the meaning of something the Irish translation is taken over the english one." The language in which any ordinary bill and then an act is drafted and passed dictate which language has priority.

Wasn't there some trouble of Mick McDowell reading a bill into the Dail in Irish (hence in that case the Irish meaning of whatever was in the bill took effect)?