Why can't Ireland join the Commonwealth?

fjon

This probably has a fairly easy answer, but I really don't know much about it.
I was wondering why Ireland is not allowed join the Commonwealth of Nations?
According the London Declaration Republics are entitled to join (including India and Ireland). So why are India allowed join and we aren't?
By the way I'm not saying we should or shouldn't, but just wondering why - this came up in a pub discussion, and I'm just curious.

Guy:Incognito

Are we actually not allowed or do we just not want to?

the_syco

**mutter**Bloody D4 wannabe Brit**mutter**

her acceptance of the King as the symbol of the free association of its independent member nations and as such the Head of the Commonwealth

I don't see Ireland taking the king as the leader, and if a government ever does, they'll get shot (literally).

fjon

I was under the impression that we were not allowed, however I could be wrong on this!
Perhaps we were not allowed in 1949, but the criteria for admission has since changed?

fjon

the_syco wrote: »

**mutter**Bloody D4 wannabe Brit**mutter**


I don't see Ireland taking the king as the leader, and if a government ever does, they'll get shot (literally).

Ah hang on - there's a difference between the 16 Commonwealth Realms that still have the Queen/ King as their head of state, and the other 37 nations which don't! It was the latter I was refering to.

Commonwealth Realms
Commonwealth of Nations

silverharp

the_syco wrote: »

**mutter**Bloody D4 wannabe Brit**mutter**

now now , lay off D4, living there does not make anyone less Irish. However you have got to hand it too the Victorian ascendancy, they knew how to lay out some great areas like Sandymount!

fjon

Since when is Sandyford in D4 ?

garthv

Why the hell would we want to?
Don't you remember the blood sweat and tears of 1916?

Fratton Fred

Ireland can join the commonwealth if it wants to, there is no obligation to take the Queen as head of state and the commonwealth is a consortium of equals, Britain is not the automatic head.

It would, however, be political suicide for any politician to ever suggest it, so it aint gonna happen.

mike65

Éamonn Ó Cuív survived the suggestion Fred.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/mp-calls-for-ireland-to-join-commonwealth-1043588.html

Mike.

Time Magazine

garthv wrote: »

Why the hell would we want to?
Don't you remember the blood sweat and tears of 1916?

Well I wasn't around personally, but that had nothing to do with the Commonwealth.

Dylan_James

I think article 6 of Bunreacht na hÉireann or the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland might resolve this:

Article 6

1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

2. These powers of government are exercisable only by or on the authority of the organs of State established by this Constitution.

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/static/256.htm

No other institution apart from the Dáil and Senate can make laws for Ireland, thats why we have to vote on all of them European treaties. Who is going to vote to be accepted back into the Commonwealth?

Fratton Fred

Dylan_James wrote: »

I think article 6 of Bunreacht na hÉireann or the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland might resolve this:

Article 6

1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

2. These powers of government are exercisable only by or on the authority of the organs of State established by this Constitution.

No other body apart from the Dáil and Senate can make laws for Ireland, thats why we have to vote on all of them European treaties. In other words "foreigners fudge off" was what ole Dev was saying.

I love our secular country, is this why he catholic church makes half the rules here.

Joining the commonwealth would not affect that in anyway. The EU infringes those points more than the commonwealth would.

Time Magazine

Dylan_James wrote: »

I think article 6 of Bunreacht na hÉireann or the Constitution of the Republic of Ireland might resolve this

Really?

Then how come we were in the Commonwealth for twelve years after enacting our constitution?

galwayrush

It could be a big step for unity with the North.

Time Magazine

There was a thirteen page thread on this six months ago, btw.

purple'n'gold

galwayrush wrote: »

It could be a big step for unity with the North.

I think if there is ever going to be unity with the north (unlikely in the medium to short term) it would be a prerequisite for us to be members of the commonwealth. But, by the time Ireland is unified, the commonwealth will probably be only a quaint memory.

Tricity Bendix

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Ireland can join the commonwealth if it wants to, there is no obligation to take the Queen as head of state and the commonwealth is a consortium of equals, Britain is not the automatic head.

It would, however, be political suicide for any politician to ever suggest it, so it aint gonna happen.

The head of the commonwealth does not have to be a British monarch. Once Queenie kicks the bucket, it is up to the commonwealth to decide who the next head will be. It could be a great opening, should Ireland wish to rejoin.

fjon

As far as I understand it, there is no head of the Commonwealth. Certain countries are in Commonwealth and happen to have the Queen as head of state (the 16 Commonwealth realms), while the 37 other commonwelath countries have nothing to do with the Queen, which if we ever even considered joinining is what Ireland would most likely do too.

SeanW

There's nothing stopping us from looking to rejoin the British Commonwealth AFAIK, but why in f@#k would we want to?

brianthebard

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I love our secular country, is this why he catholic church makes half the rules here.

who ever said Ireland was secular? At least the head of the church is not the ruler of the country.

Also regards the commonwealth, we were already in it, we decided to leave it OP. I think a more pertinent question is why you would want to join it, seeing as the EU provides more in the way of trade benefits and the like than the commonwealth.

mike65

Ireland would'nt have to leave the EU!

Mike.

Rhiannon14

Wow for a second I thought you meant the Commonwealth of Massachusetts But that's just me thinking everything revolves around my state. :rolleyes:

brianthebard

mike65 wrote: »

Ireland would'nt have to leave the EU!

Mike.

Never suggested that it would have to, what I'm saying is that the EU provides all the benefits of the commonwealth and then some, we have very little to gain by being a member of the commonwealth imo.

Fratton Fred

brianthebard wrote: »

who ever said Ireland was secular? At least the head of the church is not the ruler of the country.

Also regards the commonwealth, we were already in it, we decided to leave it OP. I think a more pertinent question is why you would want to join it, seeing as the EU provides more in the way of trade benefits and the like than the commonwealth.

I thought it was in the constitution, Wiki has Ireland down as secular as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state#Europe.

IMO, Britain is not a secular state but behaves like one, Ireland is secular but doesn't behave like one.

brianthebard

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I thought it was in the constitution, Wiki has Ireland down as secular as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state#Europe.

IMO, Britain is not a secular state but behaves like one, Ireland is secular but doesn't behave like one.

Ireland isn't secular, the constitution says that all religions are to be treated equal in the state, but there are special references to God and the trinity

constitution wrote:

In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all actions both of men and States must be referred......Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ, Who sustained our fathers through centuries of trial,

does that sound like a secular way to begin a document?

Edit: Wikipedia is not a definitive answer, the constitution text is easily available from the taoiseach's website, decide for yourself if its secular or not.

Tricity Bendix

fjon wrote: »

As far as I understand it, there is no head of the Commonwealth. Certain countries are in Commonwealth and happen to have the Queen as head of state (the 16 Commonwealth realms), while the 37 other commonwelath countries have nothing to do with the Queen, which if we ever even considered joinining is what Ireland would most likely do too.

see here.

Mr.Micro

Ireland is not secular. Religion still has its grip on all matters if not overtly in places but certainly covertly like an undercurrent.

djpbarry

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I love our secular country, is this why he catholic church makes half the rules here.

They don't - God does .

brianthebard wrote: »

I think a more pertinent question is why you would want to join it, seeing as the EU provides more in the way of trade benefits and the like than the commonwealth.

Would the commonwealth not provide trade benefits with nations outside the EU?

Mr.Micro

I think Ireland should join the commonwealth if it was of benefit to us as a nation .Move forward .Too many negative reasons for letting the past dictate the future .

moe_sizlak

we were members of the commonwealth untill we became the republic of ireland in 1949
im not a sinn fein voter , im not any party in particular but i see no reasons why we should join that out of date orginisation other than we might win a few commonwealth medals as the usa or germany france and china dont partake
to me , being in the commonwealth is a form of subserviance to the british monarch and the british monarch is the head of the commonwealth nations like australia or canada or newzealand , she may not be head of india but they are still in the commonwealth so that one i can explain

i do not suffer from enough of an inferiority complex to personally want to be a member of the commonwealth and i would hope the majority of my countrymen would feel the same way

no offence queenie