Why can't Ireland join the Commonwealth?

the_syco

The north can join us, not the other way around...

Kill the queen.

SeanW

moe_sizlak wrote: »

we were members of the commonwealth untill we became the republic of ireland in 1949
im not a sinn fein voter , im not any party in particular but i see no reasons why we should join that out of date orginisation other than we might win a few commonwealth medals as the usa or germany france and china dont partake
to me , being in the commonwealth is a form of subserviance to the british monarch and the british monarch is the head of the commonwealth nations like australia or canada or newzealand , she may not be head of india but they are still in the commonwealth so that one i can explain

i do not suffer from enough of an inferiority complex to personally want to be a member of the commonwealth and i would hope the majority of my countrymen would feel the same way

no offence queenie

Hammer, nail and head.

LordSutch

I forsee the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth as part of a 'final solution' in the possible impossible? political Unification of this island!

In the event of a majority in the North voting to leave the UK, I could see the Unionists agreeing to some form of union with the South on the understanding that this islands Britishness is maintained and recognised!

The commonwealth is where we should be, and is where we hould have been since we departed in 1949 ...............

SeanW

Why?

ivan087

ArthurF wrote: »

I forsee the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth as part of a 'final solution' in the possible impossible? political Unification of this island!

In the event of a majority in the North voting to leave the UK, I could see the Unionists agreeing to some form of union with the South on the understanding that this islands Britishness is maintained and recognised!

The commonwealth is where we should be, and is where we hould have been since we departed in 1949 ...............

oh will ya stop it. most irish people down south do not consider ourselves british. it must be your dream. but dream on mate.

im not anti-british but it really annoys me when people like you go on about maintaining our britishness. yes there are some people who have british links. but as far as i am aware there are people in america with irish links, people in austria with german links, etc.

ireland is an independent nation who has no wish joining an old empire club.
yes ireland was invaided and forced to be in the UK. Thankfully for the benefit of the south we are doing fine.

Erin Go Brath

ArthurF wrote: »

I forsee the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth as part of a 'final solution' in the possible impossible? political Unification of this island!

In the event of a majority in the North voting to leave the UK, I could see the Unionists agreeing to some form of union with the South on the understanding that this islands Britishness is maintained and recognised!

I actually agree with you here. The will to join the Commonwealth isn't here, but as, and only as a token gesture to Unionists as part of joining a UI, I could see it becoming a reality.

Fratton Fred

moe_sizlak wrote: »

we were members of the commonwealth untill we became the republic of ireland in 1949
im not a sinn fein voter , im not any party in particular but i see no reasons why we should join that out of date orginisation other than we might win a few commonwealth medals as the usa or germany france and china dont partake
to me , being in the commonwealth is a form of subserviance to the british monarch and the british monarch is the head of the commonwealth nations like australia or canada or newzealand , she may not be head of india but they are still in the commonwealth so that one i can explain

i do not suffer from enough of an inferiority complex to personally want to be a member of the commonwealth and i would hope the majority of my countrymen would feel the same way

no offence queenie

I think you've been watching the tudors too much.

Check your calender, this is the 21st century

luckylucky

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think you've been watching the tudors too much.

Check your calender, this is the 21st century

Exactly it's the 21st century so why the hell would we want to go back to being part of a group which is the semblance of the remnant of an empire that thankfully it's time has ended which we were treated terribly(understatement if there ever was one) under.

I really think British people living in Ireland should actually do a little study into Irish history. Some of the things you guys come out with really makes me think you guys know very little besides that Britain was a bit 'naughty' in Ireland in the past. Your kind of attitude that it was no big deal, just forget about it....I'll tell you something if Britain had done to them by another country what you did to us you'd be no where near as forgiving about it as we have been. No way.

For those Irish who are in any way knowledgable of Irish history and no this doesn't make us terrorist sympathisers would find even the suggestion of being part of the commonwealth offensive,we paid a heavy price in blood in finally throwing off the monarchy and we don't want a refund thanks. I'd rather be part of the Russian Federation to put it bluntly.

luckylucky

ArthurF wrote: »

I forsee the Republic re-joining the Commonwealth as part of a 'final solution' in the possible impossible? political Unification of this island!

In the event of a majority in the North voting to leave the UK, I could see the Unionists agreeing to some form of union with the South on the understanding that this islands Britishness is maintained and recognised!

The commonwealth is where we should be, and is where we hould have been since we departed in 1949 ...............

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

I actually agree with you here. The will to join the Commonwealth isn't here, but as, and only as a token gesture to Unionists as part of joining a UI, I could see it becoming a reality.

Lmfao, c'mon get a reality check. Northern Unionists want little or nothing to do with us period, when I was kid growing up our sh1tty economy was one of the reasons cited why they didn't want to be part of us, that reason has gone, the other reason is the catholicism of the republic, religion in the south these days has waned a lot and is less of a valid reason.

If tomorrow we all converted to the free Presbyterian Church and offered presidency of Ireland to Ian Paisley and made Rhoda Paisley the Queen of Ireland they would say oh that's nice but they still would not want a United Ireland.

While personally I would want a United Ireland I don't want one at all costs, I don't want to be part of the UK again that's for sure. If it meant a United Ireland I'm not sure would I go for this commonwealth thing either, I'd have to think about it but either way it would make not the slightest difference imo, so the question is moot.

I think at this stage, barring a nationalist majority occuring in the North, United Ireland is a pipe dream, about the only thing that can be realistically hoped for is improved relations between different communities on this island.

djpbarry

luckylucky wrote: »

I really think British people living in Ireland should actually do a little study into Irish history. Some of the things you guys come out with really makes me think you guys know very little besides that Britain was a bit 'naughty' in Ireland in the past. Your kind of attitude that it was no big deal, just forget about it....I'll tell you something if Britain had done to them by another country what you did to us you'd be no where near as forgiving about it as we have been.

How exactly were you mistreated by the British?

luckylucky

djpbarry wrote: »

How exactly were you mistreated by the British?

Stupid question deserves a stupid reply.

djpbarry

luckylucky wrote: »

Stupid question deserves a stupid reply.

It was a perfectly valid question. Neither myself, nor any member of my family or friends were ever mistreated in any way by "The British". Whatever happened 100 years ago has little to do with me.

CerebralCortex

djpbarry wrote: »

It was a perfectly valid question. Neither myself, nor any member of my family or friends were ever mistreated in any way by "The British". Whatever happened 100 years ago has little to do with me.

Still doesn't make joining the commonwealth any more relevant.

luckylucky

djpbarry wrote: »

It was a perfectly valid question. Neither myself, nor any member of my family or friends were ever mistreated in any way by "The British". Whatever happened 100 years ago has little to do with me.

This attitude is perhaps exactly why we were a subjucate people for 800 years.

I'll tell you why it was a stupid question, would you ask a Jew, what did the Germans ever do to you.

You'd probably get a smack in the face and more if you did.

Think that's an extreme example, would you ask a Pole what did the Russians ever do to you

Ask a 'British' person what did the French ever do to them then, they have a pathological hatred of them for a lot less reason than we would have for feeling the same way about the British(whom i don't hate btw, my wife is English for one thing - I just think our past with them is not a trivial one that I would want to sign up to the West Brit club), while with us they don't hate us they just don't respect us and I can see why. :rolleyes:

oscarBravo

luckylucky wrote: »

Ask a 'British' person what did the French ever do to them then, they have a pathological hatred of them...

Most 'British' (why the danger quotes, btw?) people I know (and I know quite a few) don't have any kind of hatred of the French, let alone pathological. There are some who do, but they're the kind I generally write off as ignorant xenophobes.

Go figure.

djpbarry

luckylucky wrote: »

would you ask a Jew, what did the Germans ever do to you.

I might if the situation called for it. I don't believe a person has the right to feel victimised because their "people" were mistreated in the past. Everyone is an individual. If they were mistreated themselves then fair enough.

luckylucky wrote: »

Ask a 'British' person what did the French ever do to them then, they have a pathological hatred of them for a lot less reason than we would have for feeling the same way about the British

Nonsense. My wife is British and I have plenty of British friends. I do not recall any of them ever stating that they hated the French.

oscarBravo wrote: »

Most 'British' (why the danger quotes, btw?) people I know (and I know quite a few) don't have any kind of hatred of the French, let alone pathological. There are some who do, but they're the kind I generally write off as ignorant xenophobes.

Agreed.

The Chessplayer

The Commonwealth is old hat. We're in the EU. The British Empire is old hat. Wise up!

Fratton Fred

I was wondering how long this would go before "800 Years" was mentioned.

I'm curious why the Irish think they are so different to the South Africans, the Kenyans, the Indians or the decendants of slaves now living in various Caribbean countries who were also subject to the same sort of treatment (and in most cases a lot lot worse) the Irish were but for some reason are happy to be in the Commonwealth.

Maybe they don't know the meaning of the term begrudgery:rolleyes:

By the way, The Irish moan about 800, which really is 400 because Ireland didn't come under full British rule until Cromwell. Engalnd first got invaded by the French 1000 years ago and apart from saving their arses a couple of times in the early half of the last century, we have been at war ever since, so of course we hate them, we have more right to hate them than the irish do the English....don't we?;)

By the way, Join the commonwealth if you like, I doubt anyone in Britain gives a monkey's wotsit and I'm pretty sure the Queen isn't losing any sleep over it, but all you really get is the chance to be beaten by the Aussies in yet another sporting event every four years, that's the only thing Britain gets out of it anyway.

luckylucky

djpbarry wrote: »

I might if the situation called for it. I don't believe a person has the right to feel victimised because their "people" were mistreated in the past. Everyone is an individual. If they were mistreated themselves then fair enough.
.

Yes your point has validity if we talk about individuals, we are talking political entities here. Why would Ireland as a country want to be part of something that has historical links to something which was a long bad part of our not too distant past.

djpbarry wrote: »

Nonsense. My wife is British and I have plenty of British friends. I do not recall any of them ever stating that they hated the French.

I'll admit hate is too strong a word, over emphasis on my part.... anyway The English dislike the French as a rule and I call BS if you know so many English and have never heard any English person say they don't like the French. I lived in Manchester for 4 years and I have heard the dislike of the French spoken umpteen times, I would say the French and The Welsh competed for top spot in The English dislike stakes.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm curious why the Irish think they are so different to the South Africans, the Kenyans, the Indians or the decendants of slaves now living in various Caribbean countries who were also subject to the same sort of treatment (and in most cases a lot lot worse) the Irish were but for some reason are happy to be in the Commonwealth.
.

Well you actually probably did a lot of good in those countries you mentioned, improved infrastructure etc.

Also being part of the commonwealth was probably good economically for your ex colonies.

At the end of the day that is their business anyway.

The commonwealth for me is the remnant of a self serving empire, like all empires it did some good but doing good wasn't its overall purpose, I think like the vast majority of Southern Irish people it represents something we wanted free of and I for one want nothing to do with it.

moe_sizlak

this thread is very much getting off topic , its about us rejoining the commonwealth , none of my family have suffered under the british but that doesnt make want to be in the commonwealth , none of my family suffered under the taliban , doesnt mean i want to give up eating pork

i dont think that reunification with the north will ever hinge on us rejoining the commonwealth , i think a united ireland is at least 50 yrs away and that is probably no bad thing , ian paisleys sons nephews pet goldfish will have to have passed on 1st
the commonwealth is a throwback to the days of empire and i for one have zero time for paying hommage to any kind of monarch anway
it has no value other than in some sort of phoney unity once every 4 yrs when crap runners from england have a chance of winning a medal agaisnt crap runners from new zealand in the nothing event that is the commonwealth games
oh yeah and rte would have to show the queens speech at 3pm on christmas day when its already hard enough to hold down the sprouts

flogen

I've yet to see anyone (here or elsewhere) make a valid case for joining the Commonwealth, other than it being a way to lure Unionists onto our side.

Frankly if a United Ireland was ever on the table I'd like to think that the Unionists wouldn't have to be cajoled into an Irish union by such superficial kow-towing as us agreeing to joining a Talking Shop-come-Sporting organisation. In fact I'm pretty sure that that would be on the bottom of their check-list as it would mean absolutely nothing to them or us and wouldn't in itself create any obligation for us to be more British or to have the British monarch as our head of state (one of the biggest concerns amongst Unionists is that Ireland would persecute protestants, try to suppress their heritage or would in some way or another make them poorer... you know, practical stuff. It's not so much about their love for their monarch anymore).

Some people wouldn't like to joining the Commonwealth for historical reasons - that's a bit immature but so be it. I wouldn't like to join the Commonwealth because I see no reason for it at all - it would at worst be a useless talking shop and at best another unnecessary layer of bureaucracy.

LordSutch

I would like somebody to tell me what this 800 years thing means? OK I do realise that to Republicans it means 800 years of 'British/English' oppression ~ murder ~ rape ~ pillage ~ humiliation ~ hatred & torture ~ but in reality, what does 800 years mean? or is it as I suspect, just a Republican stick to beat our cousins with? and where do the Vikings, Normans, Scots & Ulstermen fit-in to the '800 years' of horribleness ?

luckylucky

ArthurF wrote: »

I would like somebody to tell me what this 800 years thing means? OK I do realise that to Republicans it means 800 years of 'British/English' oppression ~ murder ~ rape ~ pillage ~ humiliation ~ hatred & torture ~ but in reality, what does 800 years mean? or is it as I suspect, just a Republican stick to beat our cousins with? and where do the Vikings, Normans, Scots & Ulstermen fit-in to the '800 years' of horribleness ?

Who are these cousins you mention

If you mean the English, they are a Germanic people - Anglo Saxon - where you think they came from West Cork!?

Scots and Welsh are our cousins but they became embroiled long ago with the dominant invading force on their island. I suspect we are really just thick Paddies in their eyes too.

Vikings, Normans, Scots and English ancestry along with what you might call Gaelic Irish all make up the modern day Irish society, and in a generation there will be Polish and Nigerian thrown into that mix too. The undeniable British descendancy of elements of Southern Ireland is not enough for me to go terming them our cousins, you think differently, perhaps you have more British ancestry than me,either way so be it.

Maybe further in to the future as inter marriage continues between the two islands more people will feel more cousinly like you and some others already do and I actually think that will be a good thing, but it's not something I feel personally, I don't think that makes me a bad person,a terrorist sympathiser, or anti-British.

gurramok

I think he means the ethnic Irish who have emigrated to the UK in the past hence they are our cousins
Certain folk propose joining as a gesture to Unionists, what gesture do the Unionists give in return??

Commonwealth is so dated and old fashioned and empirish, its about time countries like ours are able to speak for themselves in the world without having a foreign monarch speak for us, after all there are countless republics that can survive on their own without an attachment to a foreign empire.

luckylucky

gurramok wrote: »

I think he means the ethnic Irish who have emigrated to the UK in the past hence they are our cousins

Actually, good point. These days so many english are part Irish and plenty of Irish are part English somewhere along the line too. Friendly neighbours on an equal footing is fine by me, but you can keep the leftovers of a dead empire, what's the English term for it... 'good ridance'

murphaph

The links between Ireland and Britain go back many millenia. I have no burning desire for Ireland to join the Commonwealth but I would not be opposed to such a move. I couldn't give a fiddlers about Unionists in Northern Ireland-they are already living in the Commonwealth.

I believe ordinary brits and irish (not republicans and loyalists) have more in common than difference and has already been stated UMPTEEN times, the Queen is only head of the Commonwealth until she erm, retires. From then on the head of the Commonwealth will be decided by election and given our gift of the gab we may get a paddy in that post!

It is an old boys club of sorts and one we have a right to join as being a former part of the empire. If it enhances trade links with India just a couple of percentage points it could be worth it economically, forgetting about sentiment for a moment.

You'd swear it was the United Kingdom herself that we were talking about rejoining the way some have reacted here! :rolleyes:

luckylucky

murphaph wrote: »

It is an old boys club of sorts and one we have a right to join as being a former part of the empire. You'd swear it was the United Kingdom herself that we were talking about rejoining the way some have reacted here! :rolleyes:

Yeah an old boys club for former subjugate nations, of whom we were the first one. Yes of course we should be absolutely clambering to get in to it...the ungrateful thick micks that we are :rolleyes:

Man what the hell is going on, I've left Ireland 5 years. I really hope some of the West Brit attitude I'm witnessing here hasn't become atypical back there now. I live in central Portugal and most of the people I socialise with happen to be English. I make a point of making it clear that I'm not British, something which it seems they often don't quite get. I'm beginning to think why do I bother. :rolleyes:. Maybe I should become a naturalised Portuguese citizen, at least they're proud of being Portuguese.

murphaph

luckylucky wrote: »

Yeah an old boys club for former subjugate nations, of whom we were the first one. Yes of course we should be absolutely clambering to get in to it...the ungrateful thick micks that we are :rolleyes:

Exactly. Former members of the empire. The empire is gone. The Commonwealth recognises that fact and allows former members to stay in touch in an organised manner. It allows certain trade benefits unavailable under the EU exclusively. Speaking of which-Man-if you despise the notion of a mere club, such as the commonwealth affecting Ireland's sovereignty, how on earth are you comfortable sacrificing real sovereignty to the European Union on a daily basis? Why the need for a "thick micks" reference? Do you have a serious inferiority complex? The british people in general have the utmost respect for modern Ireland. They recognise our achievements. They are not all walking about in bowler hats talking about "the irish". Get on with the 21st century.

luckylucky wrote: »

Man what the hell is going on, I've left Ireland 5 years. I really hope some of the West Brit attitude I'm witnessing here hasn't become atypical back there now. I live in central Portugal and most of the people I socialise with happen to be English. I make a point of making it clear that I'm not British, something which it seems they often don't quite get. I'm beginning to think why do I bother. :rolleyes:. Maybe I should become a naturalised Portuguese citizen, at least they're proud of being Portuguese.

Maybe they're taking the p!ss out of you?

luckylucky

murphaph wrote: »

how on earth are you comfortable sacrificing real sovereignty to the European Union on a daily basis?

It's a community of equals, in theory at least, not former colonies. I thnik The EU is a greqat thing tbh, I think people don't realise how important it is, we have had peace between nations in Western Europe for over 60 years, I don't know if that has happened in the last couple of millenia, it makes it harder for nations to be at loggerheads, the fact that they have a common curreny and common interests. Anyway I digress, we'll end up debating the EU next.

murphaph wrote: »

The british people in general have the utmost respect for modern Ireland. They recognise our achievements.

lmfao b$ll1x they do. As far as they're concerned our recent success is purely down to EU grants who since they were a net contributor could be attributed to them. If you actually believe that to be the case maybe it's you who they are taking the p1ss out of.

Erin Go Brath

There is no valid reason to join the Commonwealth. The only way people would even remotely entertain it would be if it was a deal maker to secure a UI. In that scenario it would obviously be the looser arrangement that the 37 members are commited to. Having the Queen as head of the state would of course be a serious non-runner. The electric chair for anybody who even suggests such a proposal. :D:D

The big question of course is would the people of Ireland elect to vote for the proposal if it was a deal maker to secure a UI? (I know a lot of hypotheticals in there). If that was the price to pay for 32 county sovereignty of our country, and helped to ensure peace and stability in the new 32 County Republic. I'd say most people would be willing to pay it!