Why England didn't qualify? The aftermath and is the Premier League to blame?

whiskeyman

This is gonna be the talk over the waters for a long time. It's already be brewing and there's a lot of targets.
Once favoured in the formation of the Premier League.
After the disappointment of being knocked out in the semi final in WC1990, a new league concept was put forward the following year, and the FA Premier League was formed in 1992.
One of it's roles and objectives (found on it's website) is:

The Premier League must use our resources to develop playing talent that will provide for international success with the England team at all levels - with the status of World Champions being the realistic goal'.

Since then, England have not achieved the same success as 1990. The current club topping the Premier League doesn't have one regular English player, and no English manager has won the League.

But is the Premier League just an easy target? Do the FAs managerial choices have to be seriously questioned?
Is it a factor of the Premier League and money that's making the big players lose heart and all meaning of what playing for their country means?
Is it the hype that they endure every time?
I know it's probably a factor off many points, but what for you has been the big factor that's caused Englands woes?

PHB

The players aren't being developed at the lower levels. Big clubs are not trying to develop because of the 90 minute rule. It's cheaper to go abroad. United/Arsenal put much less effort into home development because if they find a top player that isn't within their 90 minute area, they have to pay a lot of money for him. Instead they can just go abroad for much cheaper.
This system is meant to be benefiting the lower clubs and making it more even, but it's really hurting the national team.
The best will always rise to the top, but there's a reason why there's so little depth in the English team.

Mitch Connor

It is simply down to poor management imo.

If you gave a manager like Mouinho, Ferguson or Wenger the first choice England squad at club level, they would be in the running for the CL and Premiership title every season. No doubt in my mind about that. Just look at the 22 I list here:

Robinson, Carson, Neville, Richards, Ferdinand, Terry, Campbel, Lescott, A.Cole, Bridge, J.Cole, Lennon, Wright-Phillips, Gerrard, Lampard, Hargreaves, Barry, Downing, Owen, Rooney, Crouch, Defore.

That is leaving out other top english players like Foster, James, Carragher, Woodgate, Brown, Young, Carrick, Beckham, Bent, Ashton and I'm sure many others.

That squad has as much talent and ability as any other nation IMO, there is no position where they are all that weak. So, while there is a lack of top english talent in some of the top sides, there are certainly enough top players around. Look at Barcelona - Puyol, Xavi and Iniesta, Real have only really got Casilas and Raul. I'm sure it is the same in Italy. The top sides aren't dominated (or even close to being dominated) by domestic players.

The problem the english team has is an inability to play together, and an inability of the management to acknowledge this and select the best team.

Last night, as much as anyone else, Lampard and Gerrard were the problem for england. These two 'world class' midfielders yet again failed to do it when it counted for England and spent the game simply giving the ball away and playing glory balls to nowhere. These two can not play in the same centre midfield, theyhave displayed this inability for what, 4 years now, if not longer. Keep one out of the team, concentrate on making the team better organised and have a better shape.

PeadarofAodh

I'd place the blame squarely on the FA for this one. After they finally realised Eriksson wasn't the right man and losing incredible amounts of money hiring and sacking the guy, they went about the new selection process in completely the wrong way. Not only did they manage to let a man like Scolari slip through their fingers, they then decided that the new manager and director of the team should be the old manager's second-in-command...now that's forward thinking!

I think the majority of people knew the moment that McClaren was hired things weren't really going to improve. Now it's back to square one with the FA having lost even more money having to sack the man after only a year and a half of a ludicrous 4 year contract. What they need is a Martin O' Neill style man to bring home the basics to what have to be described as under-performing players. I don't agree with people saying they simply aren't good enough - look at Gerard last night, he looked woeful but there's no doubting he's a top player!

I wonder if Barwick can pull his head out of the sand and make the right choice this time around...

PDN

whiskeyman wrote: »

I know it's probably a factor off many points, but what for you has been the big factor that's caused Englands woes?

Lack of bottle. They choke in big games.

Every tournament England make it out of the group stages - even beating big teams in the process. Then, in the knockout stages, they overcome lesser opposition such as Denmark or Ecuador. But they always lose to big teams in the knock out stages.

Here are the facts, since England entered the World Cup in 1950 they have never won a knockout match against a big team on foreign soil. Their only victories in over 50 years of trying against big teams in knockout games were in 1966 when, with home advantage, they overcame Argentina, Portugal and West Germany.

In European Championships, England's only victory over a big team in the knockout stages of the finals was in 1996 when they beat Spain on penalties, again with home advantage.

So, in England's entire international history, they have NEVER won a knockout game against a big team in the final stages of a major tournament except on English soil.

RE*AC*TOR

Tauren wrote: »

The problem the english team has is an inability to play together, and an inability of the management to acknowledge this and select the best team.

I think this is the overriding problem. The selection of players has involved certain "must play" superstar players. The problem with this is that it can be very difficult to fit them all into a system that works. The Gerrard/Lampard issue is the most prominent example of this. Obviously there are other mitigating factors like the injury prone nature of the two first choice forwards, but at the end of the day, what they need is a manager who is brave enough to drop Gerrard, or to drop Owen etc, and to pick a team that functions better as a whole.

pd101

Its a combination of them all. Had a manager who was out of his depth and was influenced too easily by the media. They underestimated their opposition. The media over-hyped them before games and slated them after games. And the players dont seem to enjoy playing for their country anymore.

Spud83

Its simple they pick their best eleven players instead of their best team.

eirebhoy

I keep hearing people say that England are technically inferior to their European counterparts. No they're not. They have just as good passers of the ball as anyone in Europe. They have as many skillful players as France, Italy or Spain. What they're missing is the playmakers, the brains. Before a Croatian player even got the ball last night he knew what he was going to do. English players need that little but more time. They're poor decision makers, the players don't know what's the best position to stand in. That's the reason they can't play fabulous one touch passing like many other teams.

The_B_Man

i reckon its coz one week the england players are playing against each other, getting into scuffles, hard tackles, and basically they're against each other, then the next week for internationals, they're expected to be best mates, and forget about ur man nearly breakin me leg 2 days ago, or the other fella diving and winning a penalty against us. what i mean is, they could just not like their colleagues!

Spud83

The_B_Man wrote: »

i reckon its coz one week the england players are playing against each other, getting into scuffles, hard tackles, and basically they're against each other, then the next week for internationals, they're expected to be best mates, and forget about ur man nearly breakin me leg 2 days ago, or the other fella diving and winning a penalty against us. what i mean is, they could just not like their colleagues!

Nonsense. Every international team faces this so-called problem. Sure I doubt they like everyone at their club either.

gosplan

they didn't qualify because of poor management but the players aren't good enough to win things.

England simply don't produce the type of midfield players that are needed to succeed at the top level. No vision, no flair etc. No one like Fabregas, Alonso..essentially no-one who can actually CONTROL and DICTATE a game.

Scholes was able to do this but since hm there's been no-one, Carrick can pass but is too slow.

Power players like Gerard, Lampard etc need skill beside them to prosper.

You can't succeed without them.

but you can at least qualify

Vokes

eirebhoy wrote: »

I keep hearing people say that England are technically inferior to their European counterparts. No they're not. They have just as good passers of the ball as anyone in Europe. They have as many skillful players as France, Italy or Spain. What they're missing is the playmakers, the brains.

Well technically speaking, Germany, for example, don't use a playmaker, do they? They play with just a classic DM / AM pair with 2 out&out wingers setup which has done well for them.

Surely England can have the similar sort of success with the right manager with the current players available.

Pepe LeFrits

eirebhoy wrote: »

I keep hearing people say that England are technically inferior to their European counterparts. No they're not. They have just as good passers of the ball as anyone in Europe. They have as many skillful players as France, Italy or Spain. What they're missing is the playmakers, the brains. Before a Croatian player even got the ball last night he knew what he was going to do. English players need that little but more time. They're poor decision makers, the players don't know what's the best position to stand in. That's the reason they can't play fabulous one touch passing like many other teams.

That's down to youth coaching methods.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/martin_samuel/article2910642.ece

Good article.

Pighead

McClarens Press Conference about to start. Maybe he can tell us what went wrong. Heres the link for anybody who's interested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/sol/newsid_6240000/newsid_6248400?redirect=6248461.stm&news=1&nbram=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1

Fratton Fred

gosplan wrote: »

they didn't qualify because of poor management but the players aren't good enough to win things.

England simply don't produce the type of midfield players that are needed to succeed at the top level. No vision, no flair etc. No one like Fabregas, Alonso..essentially no-one who can actually CONTROL and DICTATE a game.

Scholes was able to do this but since hm there's been no-one, Carrick can pass but is too slow.

Power players like Gerard, Lampard etc need skill beside them to prosper.

You can't succeed without them.

but you can at least qualify

yep. Scholes and Gascoigne are the last two I remember.

I had the privilage of watching a truely great Croatian play for us, Robert Prosinecki. The way he could control a game was unreal. As soon as he got the ball, which he always wanted and was available for, he knew exactly who was free, who was making a run and if need be, he could put his foot on the ball, keeping it away from three opposing players and then deliver a pin point 30 yard pass.

Players like Prosinecki are the difference between good sides and sides that win things.

Mitch Connor

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

That's down to youth coaching methods.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/martin_samuel/article2910642.ece

Good article.

I'm very surprised that he did not see fit to mention the changes United have made to their training setup for exactly the reasons mentioned in the article, but then again, wouldn't want to go praising a top premiership side, least not United, would we?

Read this if you are interested:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/s/177/177135_united_the_skill_factory.html


Another, better imo, article highlighting the same:

http://www.powersoccer.ca/articles.php?aid=21

Pepe LeFrits

Tauren wrote: »

I'm very surprised that he did not see fit to mention the changes United have made to their training setup for exactly the reasons mentioned in the article, but then again, wouldn't want to go praising a top premiership side, least not United, would we?

Read this if you are interested:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/s/177/177135_united_the_skill_factory.html


Another, better imo, article highlighting the same:

http://www.powersoccer.ca/articles.php?aid=21

Eh, what have Manchested United got to do with this?

Mitch Connor

Eh? Is it that hard to work out?

England didn't qualify.
Lack of skillfull players to blame (by some)
Poor coaching techniques highlighed by comumnist.
Article on ENGLISH BASED club Manchester United changing the training setup at United to combat issues highlighted by columnist.

Yeah, clearly I was way off bat there....

Pepe LeFrits

Well, if you had simply said that Man United were making efforts to combat some of the things he mentioned that would have made sense; however the snipey comment as if he is somehow purposely ignoring Man United's effort in that regard is puzzling. It's not like Man United are the only club in the land who have changed their training regimes in recent years.

The article highlights the problems that are common in grass-roots football in England. Man United don't really have any more to do with this than anyone else.

event

havent read pepe's article but presume it is about football is coached to kids here and in england.

i have seen games at U-10 level where all that its about is running. they pick the fittest, biggest kids, and attempt to bully the opposition. If a kid is skillful and tries to run with it, he is told not to be greedy, to pass it. In spain and italy, he would be praised and told to keep trying.

look at joe Cole. he is one of englands most gifted players, yet is never used properly. if he had been spanish or italian, they would have built teams around him. here, managers dont know what to do with him. is he a winger, could he play in the middle, should he play off the big man. When he came onto the scene at west ham people liked his skill and flicks, but went mad if he lost the ball. On the continent, thats taken as a given. A player like him will lose it sometimes, but will win you a game too. over here, that was knocked out of him, so now he hardly knows what to do with the ball.

Also, ball retention is a big thing. the english like to think their league is amazing, but really its not. in the Pl, you dont have to hold onto the ball really, cos the odds are the other team will lose it soon enough, so you'll get it back. this was shown with gerrard last night, trying to hit 50 yard passes to crouch, when it was needed to hold onto the bacll. you cant blame him, its what he does most weeks. its just that in international football, if you lose the ball you may not see if for 10 minutes.

i voted players, as last night they didnt seem to care.
but there is a bigger picture here, that goes from grass roots all the way to the top. And this wont be solved by the time 2010 rolls around.

Mitch Connor

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

The article highlights the problems that are common in grass-roots football in England. Man United don't really have any more to do with this than anyone else.

But if United, along with clubs like Liverpool and Derby as mentioned ni teh article, can lead the way in changing the focus to skills based training and development - it will in turn force a change in grass-roots football.

The professional game will lead grass-roots, not the other way around.

Also, I would say having skills based development from a young age at clubs is more important than making smaller pitches for the local sunday league - afterall, the vast majority of future internationals will get the majority of their football education at professional clubs, not playing for a sunday league side.