Thinking of appealing my result, thoughts?

ultanmac

I sat my test this morning and failed for the second time. I had seven grade two faults and one grade three, so basically I got an automatic fail for the grade three. Here's what happened with the grade three:

I live in Athlone, the town center of which has been under heavy constuction for a number of months. I was brought to a part of the town which I drove through last night, and a new system was brought in this morning. I failed to notice this and as a result, ended up driving on the wrong side of the road for 5-8 metres.

I dunno, I really feel like it's pretty harsh, it's more than a year since I applied for my first test, the failure of which I have no complaints about, just to make you wait 6-7 months just to be caught out on a single thing is really frustrating. Especially in light of the new regulations that are being brought in.

I don't know anyone who has appealed so I'm unsure of how the system works, or if I'd have any chance of getting the decision overturned...any ideas?

pow wow

You come across unusual situations all the time when driving though, and driving on the wrong side of the road (which you admit you did) is a pretty big mistake to make. On the basis that you aren't disagreeing what you did was wrong so he was correct to fault you, I can't see how any appeal would succeed.

I know of one person who tried to appeal it and was unsuccessful. I gather not many people manage to get their test result overturned, even when they are in the right.

It's just really really bad luck. I feel for you!

Gregor Samsa

ellscurr wrote: »

I gather not many people manage to get their test result overturned, even when they are in the right.

You can't get your result overturned - the best outcome you can hope for is a re-test with a different tester at no cost.

OP - in fairness, the fact that the road system only changed that morning is irrelevant. You're supposed to be paying attention to signs and traffic at all time. Driving on the wrong side of the road like that is a grade 3 fault for a reason.

The appeal is done in the District Court. To succeed, the Judge must find that the test was conducted improperly due to malice, oppression or unfair conduct. Personally, I don't think your situation qualifies at all.

Here's some more info:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driving-tests/appealing-your-driving-test-results

pow wow

Fair point. Kinda makes you wonder why they have the appeal process at all!

Do they let you skip the queue for a retest if they find in your favour? That would be a benefit I suppose.

Gregor Samsa

ellscurr wrote: »

Fair point. Kinda makes you wonder why they have the appeal process at all!

Do they let you skip the queue for a retest if they find in your favour? That would be a benefit I suppose.

Well, it would be only fair to get a retest if the tester made an insulting comment or something like that. But if they opened it up to everyone who was convinced that they had given the cyclist enough room or swore that the light was green when the tester said otherwise, then everyone would be appealing every fail. It's not like the Leaving Cert where someone else can objectively look back on the submission and decide if the mark was fair or not.

As for your position in the queue, I assume you get offered a test at the next available opportunity, but I don't know for sure. The Citizen's Information link that I posted quotes two court cases as examples of people appealing the test decision. One is from 1939, the other from 1966. I wonder if that's in any way indicitave of how often the process is invoked?

ultanmac

OP - in fairness, the fact that the road system only changed that morning is irrelevant. You're supposed to be paying attention to signs and traffic at all time. Driving on the wrong side of the road like that is a grade 3 fault for a reason.

Yep, yep, you're dead right, when I look back on it, I made the post a couple of hours after the test and was still frustrated and clutching at straws. Just because I didn't drive it before is no excuse, I wouldn't be cool with it if people from a different town came here and drove on the wrong side of the road just because they aren't used to the layout.

Jesus though, to be a few under the grade two limit and would have passed only for one isolated moment of stupidity is frustrating as hell. I won't be bringing this one to the courts!

"But your honour, I only drove on the wrong side of the road because I didn't know the road layout..."

"Hang him!"

irishthump

ultanmac wrote: »

I dunno, I really feel like it's pretty harsh,

Harsh? WHY?!!!! You were driving on the wrong side of the road <SNIP>
Bottom line is you did'nt respond to a sudden change in the road conditions.

Barlow07

ultanmac wrote: »

I was brought to a part of the town which I drove through last night, and a new system was brought in this morning. I failed to notice this and as a result, ended up driving on the wrong side of the road for 5-8 metres.

First all it doesnt matter how many times you drive the same route, each time will always be different and the above proves this.The fact you drove on the wrong side of road as well, you deserve to fail, you endangered the lifes of others while you did this and your lack of awareness and observation ahead also proves you are not fit to drive even though you probably drove home from the test center.

Wishbone Ash

ultanmac wrote: »

Jesus though, to be a few under the grade two limit and would have passed only for one isolated moment of stupidity is frustrating as hell

Just wondering - did the tester continue to assess you after the Grade 3 fault?

The reason I ask is that is that the first time I did the artic test I made a disqualifying mistake fairly early on in the 90 minute test. (This was in the days before the formal grading of faults). Anyway, the tester closed the clipboard and threw it on the dash board and I had to continue going through the motions knowing that I had already failed.

If a person gets a Grade 3 fault now early on in the test, do they continue to assess the driving to the end?

ultanmac wrote:

I won't be bringing this one to the courts!

"But your honour.......

Jesus, whatever you do, don't ever address an Irish judge with "your honour". It drives them bananas and you'll be accused of watching too much US TV.

'My Lord' or 'Judge' or nothing at all will do nicely!

Wishbone Ash

Barlow07 wrote: »

you endangered the lifes(sic) of others while you did this

Were you there Barlow07?

Caychadh

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Just wondering - did the tester continue to assess you after the Grade 3 fault?

That's a good question.. I recall reading (on Boards I think) before about someone who waved a person across the road (you can stop, but don't gesture to them that it's safe to cross, you don't know for sure etc) on the way out of the test center and got an instant grade 3. I wonder did they knew what they'd done, had to do the whole test anyway, which seems pretty pointless or just turned and drove back inside? I'd be interested if the OP was informed of their mistake after the test or realised just after the deed was done or did the tester start crying 'crucify him' and slap him across the head with the clipboard..

mikemac

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

'My Lord' or 'Judge' or nothing at all will do nicely!

Completly off topic, but don't say "My Lord" either. This has been done away and somewhat suprisingly it was the judges who wanted it stopped.
This is a Republic so we don't have Lords.

Back on topic, as you say OP, I don't know Athlone and if I drove against you on the wrong side of the road it would not be acceptable.
Fair play for realising and admitting your mistake. You are further than many people who fail and bitch and blame everyone but yourselves.
You recogized your mistake and you'll learn for next time. That's what driving experience is all about

"Jesus though, to be a few under the grade two limit and would have passed only for"
Finally, I wouldn't be so blase about 7 grade two faults. It's damn high.
Sure you would have passed but you're getting close to a failure.. When you have 7, you can clock up 2 very easily if you make the same mistake twice

Wishbone Ash

Caychadh wrote: »

I recall reading (on Boards I think) before about someone who waved a person across the road (you can stop, but don't gesture to them that it's safe to cross, you don't know for sure etc) on the way out of the test center and got an instant grade 3

You have a good memory Caychadh. It was I who posted that in relation to my brother-in-law (long before I was a Mod) who failed his artic test on the way out of the test centre. A woman with a buggy walked across in front of him. He stopped and she pulled back but then he gestured at her to continue. Automatic Grade 3 penalty! : Had he waited but not gestured he would have been fine!


Apologies - off topic!

micmclo wrote: »

Completly off topic, but don't say "My Lord" either. This has been done away and somewhat suprisingly it was the judges who wanted it stopped

The compulsory use of "my lord" was done away with but it is still widely used. Call into the Central Criminal Court (rape, murder, piracy, treason) some day that you have the time and you will still hear the Gardai addressing the judge as "my lord" when giving their evidence!

Personally, I would also use that form of address because it feels natural compared to "your honour"! :eek:

*shudders*

pow wow

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Just wondering - did the tester continue to assess you after the Grade 3 fault?

The reason I ask is that is that the first time I did the artic test I made a disqualifying mistake fairly early on in the 90 minute test. (This was in the days before the formal grading of faults). Anyway, the tester closed the clipboard and threw it on the dash board and I had to continue going through the motions knowing that I had already failed.

If a person gets a Grade 3 fault now early on in the test, do they continue to assess the driving to the end?

Yep. Well in my case anyway! I did my spectacular Grade 3 within a few mins of beginning the test (and I knew right off it was a Grade 3) and he continued marking different parts of the test as we went through and finished it. By the end I had a fair few Grade 2s aswell.

Doctor J

ultanmac wrote:

I was brought to a part of the town which I drove through last night, and a new system was brought in this morning. I failed to notice this and as a result, ended up driving on the wrong side of the road for 5-8 metres.

Maybe a set of lights were green last night too, if you drove through the same lights today but they were red and you didn't notice would you still feel hard done by?

Provided the changes were adequately signed up on the road you have no cause to complain. You should have noticed, you didn't, what else can the examiner do? Just chalk it up as experience and try again.

Gauge

I did my spectacular Grade 3 towards the end. Only had a couple of Grade 2s and now I have to go back and wait 7 months again *sigh* And now I'm behind all the people that applied in a panic last month!

jhegarty

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

You have a good memory Caychadh. It was I who posted that in relation to my brother-in-law (long before I was a Mod) who failed his artic test on the way out of the test centre. A woman with a buggy walked across in front of him. He stopped and she pulled back but then he gestured at her to continue. Automatic Grade 3 penalty! : Had he waited but not gestured he would have been fine!

Don't know if its true , but I heard about someone who got a grade 3 at the entrance to the test center for asking the tester if he side was clear