Newbridge Cinema Anyone???

orlao

Several other units have also closed up shop since the Centre opened, the creche, Chocolate Soup, Windy Corner and I understand the estate agents has also gone....am I forgetting anyone? Contrary to what Whitewater said to both KCC and An Bord Pleanala, some units have never been let, both inside and outside the Centre.
It is naive to buy into the Whitewater blurb that they're holding out for bigger and better - the facts don't stand up to that, and a cursory glance at the planning file for both this proposal and the last failed one show this up. Don't forget a few months after Whitewater got their planning permission for the Centre, the developers tried to get out of building the cinema.
There is absolutely no business case for extending the Shopping Centre and I would bet my (very weak) bottom dollar that if they get planning permission for this new proposal, it won't be built and there is nothing the Council can do about that. However, there is a possiblity that if the Council made them stick to the original plan of building a cinema inside the Centre, they could enforce it under the Planning & Development Act.
Meanwhile all the pfaffing around by this crowd over the last 6 years means no other operator will come into the town and build a cinema.

force4

The whole whitewater fiasco was driven by money hunger . A cinema attracts people with children , they go to a film and mammy and daddy do a bit of shopping. Foodcourt would also benefit from extra people milling around. Looks like a better idea to have the flicks given current economic climate. Newbridge people would definitely prefer it in their home town to going to Naas. I was in a multi screen in states recently about 30miles south of Orlando and it was deserted (great for us going to movies). It was worse than Whitewater. Maybe the economics of the whole thing will make the developers change their plans especially if one of the bigger outlets leaves , I live in hope.

Damien360

djimi wrote: »

Ive heard that Storm has recently been aquired by UCI and that the general cinema experience has improved greatly. My girlfriend went there last week and she said that the projectionists have finally figured out how to get the picture displaying centrally on the screen, and not at a 10 degree angle, which is a vast improvement from the last few times Ive been there.

My biggest gripe with the place tho (apart from the novice projectionists) was the fact that I had to put up with gangs of little Naas knackers talking and laughing and joking throughout the film, and the staff seemingly having no control over them. One time I saw a girl on her phone during a film, she was asked to turn the phone off or leave, she told the guy to f**k off, and he did, while she continued her conversation... Complete joke.

The knackers are not Naas knackers but from Newbridge. I know a few of them to see. Generally turn up every Thursday and Saturday. Well it seemed that way as I kept getting stuck with them. Talk all the way through a movie and the women (in the fur coats) on the phone throughout. Aged 20 to 25. Always park right in front of the cinema, closest to the entrance. C-class Mercs, VW passats all with blacked out windows. I have driven away and continued up to Liffey Valley on occasion when I spot these cars. Staff in the cinema do not know how to deal with this problem.

As for the Newbridge proposal, we have had so much spin all the time it is silly. I brought this up on my doorstep on last election when local FF clown was walking around with Cllr Black (also FF) and Cllr Black was very much against giving them an inch. Unfortunaltly, the owners of the Whitewater have'nt given an inch either.

There would be a simple solution. Permission for the shopping centre was given on the basis that the cinema would also be on the site. They have defaulted on this and the centre should have it's hours curtailed severely to breath some life back into the town's shops (too many auctioneers and a few tacky pound shops). When it begins to hurt the pockets of the centre owners they might change their tune.

This has gone on too long with only lip service paid to the few continuing the fight by the politicians and developers.

Another scenario. Let someone else develop a large cinema on the Newbridge Metal site with all parking available in the Whitewater for free as a stipulation due to lack of cinema as promised on Whitewater site. Validation of tickets in the cinema. Sean and co. would get more shoppers and his extra shops. Does Sean and co. actually own that site. Pretty sure same guy bought all of the Schlotter site on the other side of the road and the old carpets site.

orlao

Well all of you potential Newbridge-cinema-goers will be delighted to hear the Council has just asked for Clarification of Further Information, which basically means Sean Mulryan and Co have another 6 months to mess around with their infantile attempts to pull the wool over the eyes of the public. The list of questions has to be seen to be believed. One of the better comments from the Council is, "the relationship (of the cinema) with the Avenue is vague / non existent". This is The Avenue which is on its knees in terms of footfall and Mr Mulryan hasn't even taken the opportunity to design the supposed new cinema to attract people along it. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Sean Mulryan didn't get where he is today by making silly mistakes like that. The only silly people are those who still believe he has any credibility. Anyone want to earn some easy money - take a bet that it will take Whitewater 6 full months to answer these questions, even at a time when construction professionals are scrabbling for work.

armchairninja

anybody able to give me a link to that list of F.I. questions for the latest application?, cant seem to find it on the co. co. website

orlao

Unfortunately the planning database seems to be going through some quality control issues at the moment as this is not the first thing missing from that planning application ref 08/51. I got the FI questions by ringing the planning dept and they faxed it to me. I have tonight sent an email to webteam@kildarecoco.ie and asked them to rectify the situation. In fairness I've found the kildare co co planning search facility very good up to about 2 months ago. It might be useful if a few more people sent a note to them requesting same thing.

yellowcurl

orlao wrote: »

Well all of you potential Newbridge-cinema-goers will be delighted to hear the Council has just asked for Clarification of Further Information, which basically means Sean Mulryan and Co have another 6 months to mess around with their infantile attempts to pull the wool over the eyes of the public. The list of questions has to be seen to be believed. One of the better comments from the Council is, "the relationship (of the cinema) with the Avenue is vague / non existent". This is The Avenue which is on its knees in terms of footfall and Mr Mulryan hasn't even taken the opportunity to design the supposed new cinema to attract people along it. Now it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Sean Mulryan didn't get where he is today by making silly mistakes like that. The only silly people are those who still believe he has any credibility. Anyone want to earn some easy money - take a bet that it will take Whitewater 6 full months to answer these questions, even at a time when construction professionals are scrabbling for work.

Ok, so i do understand that it's very annoying that the promised cinema didn't materialise and everything. But it seems a bit like you just want to bash Séan Mulryan all the time. :rolleyes: There were definitely more people involved in the planning process than one man... there were other investors, whom you haven't launched a tirade against. Maybe the bigger picture should be focused on? The likelihood is that there probably won't be a cinema in newbridge for the next few years, and yes that is a joke, but shouldn't Kildare CoCo have been monitoring the situation as the SC was being built?

Pub07

yellowcurl wrote: »

Ok, so i do understand that it's very annoying that the promised cinema didn't materialise and everything. But it seems a bit like you just want to bash Séan Mulryan all the time. :rolleyes: There were definitely more people involved in the planning process than one man... there were other investors, whom you haven't launched a tirade against. Maybe the bigger picture should be focused on? The likelihood is that there probably won't be a cinema in newbridge for the next few years, and yes that is a joke, but shouldn't Kildare CoCo have been monitoring the situation as the SC was being built?

The buck stops with the guy at the top. If he wanted to put a cinema in it would've happened.

orlao

That point might seem reasonable at a cursory level, but it just doesn't stack up. The Whitewater is half-owned by Sean Mulryan and the other half owned by a consortium of other smaller investors. The site on which the new cinema is 'supposed' to be built is owned by both Sean Mulryan and Sean Dunne (who had previously been the other 50% shareholder of Whitewater). However, in the 7 year saga of serial planning applications / appeals by Whitewater, it has been Sean Mulryan's company, Ballymore Properties which has done the running. The project managers of Whitewater and the spokesperson who 'talked up' the merits of the new site at Newbridge Metalcrafts were Ballymore employees. The letter sent to the pressure-group, NCR refusing to accept an invitation to a public meeting was from Ballymore Properties, the people who met Town Council reps were Ballymore people. The other point is Sean Mulryan is a Kildare resident so if, as it seems, pressure is the only way of getting some movement on this issue, it is appropriate to identify the person to influence, rather than a faceless company. Mr Mulryan, as the head of Ballymore should take personal responsibility for his actions, there's no point always looking to the State to mitigate the value-less behaviour of its citizens.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about not getting a cinema for a few years yet - I can't see how KCC can approve the new cinema site, it's essentially an extension of the Whitewater, completely unnecessary given the current empty spaces in Whitewater and the potential new empty spaces. The cinema space is there ready to go within the Centre, as soon as KCC turns down the current application, enforcement orders can be issued for the current site..... watch that space!

orlao

Apologies, in case of confusion, I was replying to yellowcurl and not pub07, just my dissertation took so long to compose, s/he got in before me!

yellowcurl

orlao wrote: »

That point might seem reasonable at a cursory level, but it just doesn't stack up. The Whitewater is half-owned by Sean Mulryan and the other half owned by a consortium of other smaller investors. The site on which the new cinema is 'supposed' to be built is owned by both Sean Mulryan and Sean Dunne (who had previously been the other 50% shareholder of Whitewater). However, in the 7 year saga of serial planning applications / appeals by Whitewater, it has been Sean Mulryan's company, Ballymore Properties which has done the running. The project managers of Whitewater and the spokesperson who 'talked up' the merits of the new site at Newbridge Metalcrafts were Ballymore employees. The letter sent to the pressure-group, NCR refusing to accept an invitation to a public meeting was from Ballymore Properties, the people who met Town Council reps were Ballymore people. The other point is Sean Mulryan is a Kildare resident so if, as it seems, pressure is the only way of getting some movement on this issue, it is appropriate to identify the person to influence, rather than a faceless company. Mr Mulryan, as the head of Ballymore should take personal responsibility for his actions, there's no point always looking to the State to mitigate the value-less behaviour of its citizens.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about not getting a cinema for a few years yet - I can't see how KCC can approve the new cinema site, it's essentially an extension of the Whitewater, completely unnecessary given the current empty spaces in Whitewater and the potential new empty spaces. The cinema space is there ready to go within the Centre, as soon as KCC turns down the current application, enforcement orders can be issued for the current site..... watch that space!

I can see where you are coming from, just with the current economic climate, things might move a bit slower in getting a cinema up and running.

On a sidenote, if i were the head of a multimillion development company and a pressure group sent me a letter inviting me to a public meeting where i would probably just be verbally attacked over the situation, i would decline too and just use paper correspondance!

Darby OGill

Funny thing though, when Mr. Mulryan was looking for the local councillors' support for the initial project, he was happy to meet them in person.........

Damien360

Darby O'Gill wrote: »

Funny thing though, when Mr. Mulryan was looking for the local councillors' support for the initial project, he was happy to meet them in person.........

Only the postman delivers brown envelopes in the post.

The post office say do not put cash in the post. You would never know who sent the cash if it went missing.

orlao

Damien360 wrote: »

Only the postman delivers brown envelopes in the post.

The post office say do not put cash in the post. You would never know who sent the cash if it went missing.

Well, actually, there were no brown envelopes....and that's more tragic. Mr Mulryan didn't even have to pay for the blanket support he gets from some quarters of the elected 'representatives' of the town.

the flananator

Was pretty pissed about this situation when Whitewater first opened, but tbh I forgotton about it until I read this thread. I don't think its going to be built, and hey I wouldn't mind a few more shops in the centre as long as they're good ones (Topman and Schuh spring to mind)!

Don't get me wrong though, I'd still like to have a cinema in Newbridge. After last Friday I've gone to Storm for the last time; a crowd of young proletariat children (female, aged about 15) just wouldn't shut the fuck up! Security came over a couple of times, but couldn't get them to be quiet. He even resorted to saying "You're being very selfish!" and they just laughed in his face.

That said, I can't imagine crowd control would be much better in the proposed Newbridge cinema; this county is saturated with knackers. They should be sent to the gulag.

Nea

I wonder if the promise of a cinema will turn out like the promise of a public swimming pool in Newbridge years ago?

I would love to see a cinema back in Newbridge more so for the kids, I used to go weekly as a child. The cinematic experience as an adult is somewhat tarnished by the expense of an evening to the flicks only to have it ruined by a bunch of muppets whose only purpose in going to the movie is to piss everyone else off.

For the life of me I dont know why the ushers just dont turf them out. Maybe the recession might sort that out, if they are turfed out a few times they might not waste their money on going to the cinema

richiek83

The deadline for submitting Further Information was last Thursday the 9th of April. I'd say Kildare County Council have received it. We are unlikely to see the details of this Further Information until Tuesday or Wednesday at the earliest because of the Bank Holiday week-end. Whatever is in the Further Information I do hope that Kildare CC make a decision. I do hope the developers show a big improvement on how the Cinema will be integrated into the Avenue. We shall wait and see

orlao

I've got a copy of the further info, got it on the file on Thursday. While Whitewater has certainly improved in regard to the quality of the further information they've put in, such as improving the design of the new cinema, addressing the disability access issues and so on, they've still not been able to address the issue of WHY they actually want to change from the current cinema site. They're still waffling about the cinema experience and competitors being Liffey Valley and so on, but not addressing why the advent of digital cinema, much lower population/catchment area don't make the current cinema site (within the shopping centre) viable. The further information is about new retail space more than a cinema and there simply is no justification for more retail space anywhere in Newbridge, let alone Whitewater (ref empty units some of which have NEVER been occupied).
If the Council give the go ahead for this project, my bet is there will never be a cinema as no-one can make them build the new shops/cinema and what bank is going to finance more shops in Newbridge? Doesn't look as if Sean Mulryan has the sponds at the moment to feed his horses never mind extend the WW. If they turn it down, at least there's a chance of having an enforcement order to make them build at the current site.

richiek83

I would have to agree with you on some of the points there. The question of anything being bulit in the current climate is one of the issues I would be worried about. I don't think that the Council will make an enforcement order on White Water if this planning application is refused. I think the issue of a Digital cinema is another interesting point. Carlow will have one by the end of the year, this is an eight screen cinema that is due to be beside the Fairgreen SC. I think Newbridge could support a cinema of this type, bigger population as it stands and much bigger catchment population. All i want to see is a cinema in this expanding town of ours and something for people to do other than going to the pub. The present situation does not benefit anyone.

I haven't seen the details of the Further Information but design improvements are to be welcomed. I would also have to question the amount of information they have provided on the retail elements of the proposal. I am reluctant to comment much further until I have read the Further Information. How did you get a copy, did you contact the council? Was the Further Information received on deadline day?

richiek83

Permission granted yesterday to Clemens Pont for the new development. Whether it begins in the current climate is another question. The worst thing that could happen now is an appeal to this permission

leitrim lad

i think and i can stand to be corrected, but this cinema may turn out like the curragh re-vamp,or the swimming pool , another long drawn out process gets everyone excited ,and then just as its about to start it stops.
and i would also imagine that very few people have the funds at the minute to build something like this,and most certanily they wont be getting it from any of the banks in town in the near future,

i personally think the keg would make a great cinema, and the carpark would make a great indoor swimming pool with an underground carpark,

just an idea

penexpers

Well looks like it's going back into the centre (for the moment)

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/New-cinema-to-be-in.5567494.jp

Novella

penexpers wrote: »

Well looks like it's going back into the centre (for the moment)

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/New-cinema-to-be-in.5567494.jp

That would be really cool! I worked in Whitewater for almost two years and a cinema would have been so good so I hope this goes ahead!

nlgbbbblth

penexpers wrote: »

Well looks like it's going back into the centre (for the moment)

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/New-cinema-to-be-in.5567494.jp

at last,

although they could have done that in April 2006 - instead of being greedy and leaving the town without a cinema.

orlao

And now we're going from no cinema to two, with the Riverbank coming on-stream. The last post hit the nail on the head, the only reason we've been waiting for a cinema is because of the greed of the owners, one of which is our own ex-white-haired boy, Sean Mulryan. They said the current cinema site wasn't economically viable, though what they meant to say was retail space was worth a multiple of cinema space....and now we get a cinema because they can't give away the units.
Anyway bottom line is we'll have a cinema by November, it seems. The battle was won. And the lesson of the day is......stand up to these greed merchants, public protest can achieve good outcomes for a community!

Damien360

I hope I am not raining on the parade but their is no notice of who is running it. Another Storm Cinema like Naas ? Number of screens and comparitive size ?

On the other hand it might actually breath some life back in to the Whitewater.

I have'nt been in the Riverbank in years. Saw one show and there was no air-con. Sweated really heavily !!! Have they installed air-con for the screens they are installing.

Finally, well done to everyone for fighting the fight and not letting Sean and co. get their way.

orlao

UCI will be running the cinema, according to Ballymore. The original planning permission said 6 screens, WW later said it was only 5 screens, but I guess UCI will look at the space and do what they do best. Regarding Storm, as far as I understand it, all the Storm Cinemas were sold to Leisureplex (Irish company owned by brothers Ciaran and Columb Butler) - however these guys get UCI to run their cinemas, so is Storm Naas not being currently run by UCI? I'd say keep expectations low, remember Droichead Nua is a middle-size midlands town, nothing more and all the WW marketing tosh won't change that.
I've been involved in the cinema campaign since the big march in downtown Droichead Nua and I'd be pretty optimistic about this, we always said the cinema was viable within the shopping centre (how could it not be?), Ballymore is now proving us right (and by the same token themselves wrong despite their copious amounts of paper lodged with the Council) and it makes economic sense - people go to the cinema more in a recession. But will they match the Riverbank ticket prices of €6?
Wouldn't it be nice to hear from all those politicians who swallowed the non-viability argument hook, line and sinker - they kowtowed to Sean and his bunch of merry men and they now look like ridiculous 'yes-men'.

Damien360

orlao wrote: »

UCI will be running the cinema, according to Ballymore. The original planning permission said 6 screens, WW later said it was only 5 screens, but I guess UCI will look at the space and do what they do best. Regarding Storm, as far as I understand it, all the Storm Cinemas were sold to Leisureplex (Irish company owned by brothers Ciaran and Columb Butler) - however these guys get UCI to run their cinemas, so is Storm Naas not being currently run by UCI? I'd say keep expectations low, remember Droichead Nua is a middle-size midlands town, nothing more and all the WW marketing tosh won't change that.
I've been involved in the cinema campaign since the big march in downtown Droichead Nua and I'd be pretty optimistic about this, we always said the cinema was viable within the shopping centre (how could it not be?), Ballymore is now proving us right (and by the same token themselves wrong despite their copious amounts of paper lodged with the Council) and it makes economic sense - people go to the cinema more in a recession. But will they match the Riverbank ticket prices of €6?
Wouldn't it be nice to hear from all those politicians who swallowed the non-viability argument hook, line and sinker - they kowtowed to Sean and his bunch of merry men and they now look like ridiculous 'yes-men'.

Very strange to hear UCI involved again. I am sure I read that they gave a statement used during the application for revised planning permission (cinema to shopping change), that the size of space, catchment area and Liffey Valley close by made the cinema unviable. That was the same week that Pizza Hut pulled the plug on it's outlet also (Abbra kedabra there now).

As for pricing. The cinema is expensive no matter where you go. Expect Tallaght UCI prices and Storm prices.

If 6 quid for the screen in Riverbank proves good value then it will keep that site going for another little while. Considering the laziness and stupidity that has gone in to the running and advertising of events (and lack of quality events) in the Riverbank, I cannot see it lasting very long. it will never be competition to any real cinema no matter what the price.

EvilMonkey

It will be kicked out again once rent picks up.

Darby OGill

Hopefully it will be better run than Storm in Naas, but at least we won't have so far to go to be disapointed!!!

Despite my intense dislike of Whitewater and all it represents, the cinema might just be what is needed to turn it around, and ultimately, I don't want to see the place turn into a disaster area.

The Riverbank cinema will presumably offer alternative films to those one is likely to see in the Whitewater- arthouse, foreign language, limited release etc. It will be nice to have a choice, although I've heard the facilities in Riverbank are generally poor. At least someone is trying......