Need advice dealing with a bank

Antilles

Hi,

I am not going to name the bank in question because I have an extremely negative view of them after all this, but I'd appreciate any advice people could give me.

Last August, I set up a standing order to pay my rent (450 a month, on the 20th every month) with my bank. Through some mess up in the branch, my standing order was processed twice and on September 20th, my online banking showed that I had payed 900 euro, and had a balance of -300 euro. I rang the bank straight away and after a *lot* of bouncing around, I finally got 450 euro refunded to me on the 26th september. My landlord emailed me to find out why I had paid my rent twice, and I told him what had happened. The bank had refunded me, and I told him presumably his bank would contact him to request permission to return the money to my bank. That was the last I heard of it, and on October 22nd (the 20th was a weekend), my rent went through without a hitch, and I could see the standing order fine via my online banking.

However, on the 20th of this month, it was not processed. I only realised this yesterday when I checked my balance and saw that I had 450 euro too much. I went to the bank's online site, and found that a "hold" had been put on my standing order. Now, I have never even heard of a hold before, so I certainly didn't put it there myself. I rang the telephone banking people, and spent over an hour being bounced around again. Nobody seemed to know where the hold had come from, but repeatedly they claimed that I had a) requested the hold when I got the refund in September, or b) requested the hold on 22nd October. They tried to shift responsibility from the online banking department, to a bank branch in Marino (where I went to complain about the double payment), to the bank branch in Killester (where I set up the initial standing order), to the bank branch in Manooth (where my account was originally set up).

After all this, I finally got a callback from the branch in Maynooth, and spoke to an extremely hostile woman, who told me that even though the double payment was Bank of their fault, they had not been able to get the money back from my landlord, and so the money he had been payed "balanced" over the three months, and he should not be given money for November. She told me that because the bank had refunded the money that was incorrectly removed from my account, and they had not gotten the money from my landlord, that I now *owed the bank* 450 euro, and that a hold had been put on the standing order so that I could not pay my landlord and would have to pay the bank instead. She did not have any idea why the rent had been processed in October and that the issue was only arising now. Somehow she could see no problem with the fact that my rent payments were so completely out of order because it "balanced". I was gobsmacked at her attitude.

So, as it stands, my landlord got two months' rent in September, one months' rent in October, and no months' rent in November. I curently have 450 euro extra in my bank account because the bank stopped my transaction without my consent and without informing me, and the bank is insisting that I pay them the money that I "owe" them. As far as I am concerned, the money the bank put in my landlord's account is a matter for resolution between them, him, and his bank. My dealings with my bank, and my dealings with my landlord should be completely seperate - after all, this was *their mistake*.

So, does anybody have any advice on what I can do? I am about to email my landlord to give him the rundown on why he hasn't been paid this month. I can ask him if he is ok with taking the double-payment in September as his November rent, but I have no idea if he will be ok with that (he might already have spent the money, assuming the bank error was permanent when they didn't stop my October payment). I have no problem giving him the 450 euro for November, and leaving him that much richer because of the bank's mistake, but I don't want to send the money and then have them remove 450 from my account because they say I owe it to them.

The bank has now both put through a double standing order against me, and then put a "hold" on my standing order against my wishes. I have to explain all this to my landlord, and I have no idea where I stand with the bank!

I'm sorry if that's a bit convoluted, I have been at this all day, and would *really* appreciate any advice!

stepbar

Antilles wrote: »

Hi,

I am not going to name the bank in question because I have an extremely negative view of them after all this,

You already have, but no harm.....

Last August, I set up a standing order to pay my rent (450 a month, on the 20th every month) with my bank. Through some mess up in the branch, my standing order was processed twice and on September 20th, my online banking showed that I had payed 900 euro, and had a balance of -300 euro. I rang the bank straight away and after a *lot* of bouncing around, I finally got 450 euro refunded to me on the 26th september.

First off, ask the bank to find out who setup the standing order. It's fairly easy to identify by staff number.

However, on the 20th of this month, it was not processed. I only realised this yesterday when I checked my balance and saw that I had 450 euro too much. I went to the bank's online site, and found that a "hold" had been put on my standing order. Now, I have never even heard of a hold before, so I certainly didn't put it there myself. I rang the telephone banking people, and spent over an hour being bounced around again. Nobody seemed to know where the hold had come from, but repeatedly they claimed that I had a) requested the hold when I got the refund in September, or b) requested the hold on 22nd October. They tried to shift responsibility from the online banking department, to a bank branch in Marino (where I went to complain about the double payment), to the bank branch in Killester (where I set up the initial standing order), to the bank branch in Manooth (where my account was originally set up).

Staff don't accept instructions over the phone unless there is a phone / fax indemnity in place. Otherwise, any instructions must be done on a customer instruction form or you can put a hold online.
Second, ask them to find the instruction which states you requested a hold. I bet you a million euro there isn't one......

After all this, I finally got a callback from the branch in Maynooth, and spoke to an extremely hostile woman, who told me that even though the double payment was <SNIP> fault, they had not been able to get the money back from my landlord, and so the money he had been payed "balanced" over the three months, and he should not be given money for November. She told me that because the bank had refunded the money that was incorrectly removed from my account, and they had not gotten the money from my landlord, that I now *owed the bank* 450 euro, and that a hold had been put on the standing order so that I could not pay my landlord and would have to pay the bank instead. She did not have any idea why the rent had been processed in October and that the issue was only arising now. Somehow she could see no problem with the fact that my rent payments were so completely out of order because it "balanced". I was gobsmacked at her attitude.

My advise would be to get on to the Customer Service Manager. Don't except this crap. Not your problem. The money was refunded on the day it went out and therefore there should be no issues. If there was an issue it should have never been refunded. Standing orders can be recalled as long as it is on the day of presentation and before 12 o'clock (I think). Outside of this time frame, you would have to contact the beneficary. However in this case it was not your fault!!!! Mention the fact that the standing order was setup twice and all of the info that you mentioned here. I could see if I can get a name for you if you want.

I can guarantee that you won't hear anything else about it. If you do get any more stick, please contact the financial regulator. The bank have to follow a procedure for resolving problems. If the correct procedure is not followed, the bank is in ****.


Lucky enough you can do it online now! However there is no excuse for what happened or for the attidute from a member of staff. If you want to PM me fire ahead.

Antilles

Thanks for the info, stepbar. I have written a letter to the bank that I am going to fax to them tomorrow, requesting the information you suggested. I'm not sure the standing order was recalled before 12pm, but they definitely refunded the money so I would assume it was, or as you say the refund would not have been made.

Am I right in concluding that whatever way this plays out, I do not owe the bank any money? That is my primary concern. I have a job that pays alright, but 450 Euro is still a huge amount of money for me to lose in this way. Are the bank entitled to take the money back from my landlord after all this time? I have emailed him to explain the situation, and asking him if the money was taken from his account, or if he even still has it, but he has not gotten back to me.

Obviously the best way this could play out for me would be my landlord accepting the bank error as his November rent, and the bank then leaving the additional 450 Euro in my account because it was their mistake, not mine. After the way I was treated I most definitely am not inclined to give it to them voluntarily.

ircoha

Sept
Debit OP 900
Credit Landlord 900

Debit Bank own account 450
Credit OP 450

Net effect is that OP paid 450 in Sept so yes he does owe the 450 to the bank which in effect is the same as paying the LL 450 in Nov.

parsi

I make it that the LandLord owes the Bank the 450.

OP had account debited once correctly and once in error. Error was refunded to the OP but _crucially_ not recouped from the receiving party. Dispute lies between the bank and the receiving party.

OP - when I meet up with the banks incompetence I find that a fax to the Manager with a note that Customer Care will be contacted within x days usually does the business.

Tails142

I dont see what the problem is...

your landlord has got his 3 months rent, explain to him the mix up; he wont need paying this month cause you paid him twice in september

you now owe the bank an additional 450, this months rent; which was inadvertantly paid in september due to the mistake but then placed back into your account.

It seems to me you're being awkward; what would you like the bank to do? make a time machine and go back to september?

Antilles

Hi guys thanks for your input. The problem wasn't that the landlord wouldn't have the right amount of money over the three months, it was that the bank was interfering with my finances by stopping my order to satisfy their own accounting. They had no right to stop my order without my consent, as they did not inform me they would do so when I agreed to have the money initially refunded to me in September.

The issue, however, has now been resolved. I followed stepbar's advice, and although it took a few days, the customer service manager rang me. She gave me the bank's sincere apologies, and told me that they accepted liability for the entire incident. I received a followup letter outlining what had happened, and was given a fifty euro gift card for Marks & Spencer as a token gesture.

My standing order as been reinstated and will proceed as normal (hopefully!) from now on, and my rent payment for November has been sent through. The bank accepted that they are now down four hundred and fifty euro, but that it is their responsibility to retrieve it from my landlord, and if they are unable to do so, it is their loss.

unclebill98

Good....

parsi

Good to hear. And good that you posted the conclusion to the thread and showed that the banks do behave honourably when pressed.

(Too many threads on boards are rants and never show the final outcome..)