Should cannibas be legalised????

SpookyDoll

Dragan wrote: »

Agreed. Often times the thing working directly against the controlled legalisation of cannabis are the people who use it.

Id like to refute your claims but I cant...or somefink....;)--~ ~ ~

Kama

Pff the main thing working against legalization are moral panic arguments, systemic inertia, and the fact that you get slammed as a stoner for mentioning it, rather than rational arguments. On harm minimization it makes sense, delinking from funding terrorists and gangs it makes sense, tax revenue it makes sense, libertarian free choice it makes sense...


I was in Christiania recently, where cannabis was decriminalised; this policy ended, and unsurprisingly there was a spike in the hard drugs trade and gang battles. Simply, banning things people do, which don't directly harm other people, is a relic of puritanism masquerading as policy...

Spore

cannibals should never be leagalised... haven't you read Robinson Crusoe?

somethingwitty

The most common form of substance use disorder in people with schizophrenia is nicotine dependence due to smoking. While the prevalence of smoking in the U.S. population is about 25 to 30 percent, the prevalence among people with schizophrenia is approximately three times as high. Research has shown that the relationship between smoking and schizophrenia is complex. Although people with schizophrenia may smoke to self medicate their symptoms, smoking has been found to interfere with the response to antipsychotic drugs. Several studies have found that schizophrenia patients who smoke need higher doses of antipsychotic medication. Quitting smoking may be especially difficult for people with schizophrenia, because the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal may cause a temporary worsening of schizophrenia symptoms. However, smoking cessation strategies that include nicotine replacement methods may be effective. Doctors should carefully monitor medication dosage and response when patients with schizophrenia either start or stop smoking.

drunkmonkey

somethingwitty wrote: »

The most common form of substance use disorder in people with schizophrenia is nicotine dependence due to smoking. While the prevalence of smoking in the U.S. population is about 25 to 30 percent, the prevalence among people with schizophrenia is approximately three times as high. Research has shown that the relationship between smoking and schizophrenia is complex. Although people with schizophrenia may smoke to self medicate their symptoms, smoking has been found to interfere with the response to antipsychotic drugs. Several studies have found that schizophrenia patients who smoke need higher doses of antipsychotic medication. Quitting smoking may be especially difficult for people with schizophrenia, because the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal may cause a temporary worsening of schizophrenia symptoms. However, smoking cessation strategies that include nicotine replacement methods may be effective. Doctors should carefully monitor medication dosage and response when patients with schizophrenia either start or stop smoking.

And you'e just learned to cut and paste:eek:

http://www.psychologyinfo.com/schizophrenia/nicotine.html

Your whole point being?:)

Dr. Loon

somethingwitty wrote: »

The most common form of substance use disorder in people with schizophrenia is nicotine dependence due to smoking. While the prevalence of smoking in the U.S. population is about 25 to 30 percent, the prevalence among people with schizophrenia is approximately three times as high. Research has shown that the relationship between smoking and schizophrenia is complex. Although people with schizophrenia may smoke to self medicate their symptoms, smoking has been found to interfere with the response to antipsychotic drugs. Several studies have found that schizophrenia patients who smoke need higher doses of antipsychotic medication. Quitting smoking may be especially difficult for people with schizophrenia, because the symptoms of nicotine withdrawal may cause a temporary worsening of schizophrenia symptoms. However, smoking cessation strategies that include nicotine replacement methods may be effective. Doctors should carefully monitor medication dosage and response when patients with schizophrenia either start or stop smoking.

Well done. You're good. 'Cos we're all schizophrenic.

phantom_lord

yes

brendansmith

Cannibas and murder should both be legalised

somethingwitty

drunkmonkey wrote: »

And you'e just learned to cut and paste:eek:

http://www.psychologyinfo.com/schizophrenia/nicotine.html

Your whole point being?:)

Hey, if you wanna make personal insults then **** OFF. Rather than addressing what Ive said (and the meaning behind it should be pretty clear) you just attack me for cutting and pasting from the net?
Its important to get the facts on it and show them to people to back up your arguement. Dont you know anything?... Otherwise a debate would be pointless... SO what if Ive copied and pasted?!! What the hell is so wrong with that??!!
And for the dimwits, my point is that cannibis is not the only thing linked with mental illness, such as schizophrenia. If nicotine can play a role in it then why not ban that too?..
Also, why don't you address some of my previous comments and see how well you can argue back?

Wertz

SpookyDoll wrote: »

Errrrr.......scuse me, but arent our taxes already going to criminials?
ie....politicians!

Okay that's a fair point

SpookyDoll wrote: »

I have no faith in the Government to be able to "quality assure" my smoke any more than they can run the country, I dont want those muppets involved, the price will go through the roof, they'll balls it up like they do everything else!!!

Oh come on, I know they make sh*t of everything they touch, but the way things are now, we have a black market awash with impure supplies ;contaminated poor quality hash, overpriced homegrown weed, some of which had some nice additives like glass beads and sand thrown in to bulk up weight in the past...in a regaukated industry, like for instance, alcohol, you don't see this...used to be that back when people brewed their own alcohol, that lack of quality control or knowledge of distillation lead to methanol (meths) being consumed leading to blindness and in some cases death by people who drank it.
I have no doubt that costs would be high but FFS they're already obscenely high in the black market...I'm sorry but a hundred quid for 6 grams of greenery is comical (since a regulated Dutch market the same amount sells for less than half that)...the only reason that price is so high here is because the potency is better than the majority of the sh*te hash we get here, and because of the difficulties associated with production/importation and supply of cannabis/marijuana, and also for the fact that the country pays rip off prices for most everything else.

All moot though. Never going to happen...but if it did, it would be so much more preferable to the majority of smokers I know, than the way it currently is...the revenue generated would be a mere bonus...

RossFixxxed

I always used it as an alternative to pain killers. One before bed and I get a great night sleep. Far better than anything I hav been prescribed (the prescriptions are HUGELY addictive). But it is now impossible to get, and I refuse to go back on the tablets as they were just a disaster.

So now I get HALF the sleep I would. And am in pain a lot.

Great huh... SURELY there's some kind of alternative around....

r

Wertz

RossFixxxed wrote: »

I always used it as an alternative to pain killers. One before bed and I get a great night sleep. Far better than anything I hav been prescribed (the prescriptions are HUGELY addictive). But it is now impossible to get, and I refuse to go back on the tablets as they were just a disaster.

So now I get HALF the sleep I would. And am in pain a lot.

Great huh... SURELY there's some kind of alternative around....

r

As a matter of interest, what sort of pain or condition are you afflicted with?

I find that because of regular usage, I have it hard to drift off to sleep during times I'm without the stuff. On the other hand I never take headache pills or any other meds, either prescribed or OTC. I've not needed to go to a doctor in almost 6 yrs either (last time was for injury, not sickness)...

drunkmonkey

somethingwitty wrote: »

SO what if Ive copied and pasted?!! What the hell is so wrong with that??!!

It was not a PI, just thought it was a bit lazy and something a stoner might do....:rolleyes:

jim o doom

brim4brim wrote: »

That logic is b0ll0cks.

Half the products available should be illegal so including television as some people may experience seisures from some scenes in some movies.

Seriously, people need to think their arguments through FFS.

Jesus christ did you not actually READ my post? the reason I posted that was to illustrate how ridiculous it is that cannabis is illegal because some people MIGHT POSSIBLY suffer a consequence! My posts on the 2 or so page previous show I am very pro legalisation! The tone of that post was sarcastic, i.e. even in the post I responded to which was denouncing marijuana because some people can suffer a mental reaction, the doctors in said post state most people wont suffer any reaction. My point being that the person who posted the article I responded to, is of the opinion that it should be illegal due to said possibility. Alcohol can create alcoholics or as you said tv can cause seizures. I am not against alcohol or tv. Or weed, or anything else in fact, i was trying to point out how ridiculous the argument the previous poster was..! get it now?

Doc

I have first hand experience with a person who’s mental illness was triggered by the use of cannibas. I have also been in psychiatric wards where the nurses have said to me that the connection between the use of cannibas and some forms of mental illness is so obvious to them that they have no question in their mind that it is linked so no it should not be legalised.

RossFixxxed

Wertz wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what sort of pain or condition are you afflicted with?

I find that because of regular usage, I have it hard to drift off to sleep during times I'm without the stuff. On the other hand I never take headache pills or any other meds, either prescribed or OTC. I've not needed to go to a doctor in almost 6 yrs either (last time was for injury, not sickness)...

I have had a lot of surgery years ago, i'm held together with bolts and wire and duct tape! It's nerve damage mostly and it can hurt so bad I nearly scream sometimes!

Ross

Dragan

Doc wrote: »

I have first hand experience with a person who’s mental illness was triggered by the use of cannibas. I have also been in psychiatric wards where the nurses have said to me that the connection between the use of cannibas and some forms of mental illness is so obvious to them that they have no question in their mind that it is linked so no it should not be legalised.

With all due respect, for the same reason that i ignore anecdotal evidence from users when it comes to drugs, i also ignore anecdotal evidence from people about the "effects" of these drugs.

The only way to be sure is for proper reasearch and study, the same as with anything else.

Doc

Dragan wrote: »

With all due respect, for the same reason that i ignore anecdotal evidence from users when it comes to drugs, i also ignore anecdotal evidence from people about the "effects" of these drugs.

The only way to be sure is for proper reasearch and study, the same as with anything else.

That fine to say but if it happens to a loved one of yours I’m sceptical that you would still feel the same.

JC 2K3

How did you know that it was cannabis that triggered it?

Doc

JC 2K3 wrote: »

How did you know that it was cannabis that triggered it?

Its a long story that to be honest I really don’t want to go into it too much as even thinking about it now is quite upsetting but the link was very obvious to me and the problem did not occurred when cannabis was not involved.

Although it was not the sole reason for what happened I would say that I am %100 sure that it acted as the trigger, or pushed the person over the edge.

Dragan

Doc wrote: »

Its a long story that to be honest I really don’t want to go into it too much as even thinking about it now is quite upsetting but the link was very obvious to me and the problem did not occurred when cannabis was not involved.

Although it was not the sole reason for what happened I would say that I am %100 sure that it acted as the trigger, or pushed the person over the edge.

Look, mental illness is a terrible thing and I am very sorry that you family have had to deal with the effects of it, I would however urge you not to jump to conclusions. Sure, in a person who has a mental instability the use of ANY substance can be detrimental but it is important not to mix up what may have been a result and what may have been an affect.

I would also suggest you not make any assumptions about what me and my family may or may not have dealt with.

Often times the taking up and abuse of substances is a result of the issue, not the cause of it.

Elem

Why not? Alcohol is legal, they might as well make money of marijuana. It's legal in the Nederland’s and they don't seem to smoke it as often because it's widely available all over the country.

mydogjack

legalise it. tax it. take away the added illeagal attraction. see what happens.

Karoma

somethingwitty: calm down.
drunkmonkey: drop it.

Doc

Doc wrote: »

That fine to say but if it happens to a loved one of yours I’m sceptical that you would still feel the same.

How is this making any assumptions about what you and your family may or may not have dealt with.

I am saying that I have had a direct experience with someone who’s mental health I am sure was affected by the use of cannibas. Now if you have a direct experience about something are you still telling me you would only be sure after proper research and study? This is what I was SCEPTICAL about.
Through my own experience I have come to my decision. If you would rather only believe what is published in a journal then fine. I have not jumped to any conclusions I have come to them through experience.

...I am very sorry that you family have had to deal with the effects of it...

You are the one making assumptions about my family and my situation the person in question is not a member of my family you can love someone outside your family.

Dragan

Doc wrote: »

How is this making any assumptions about what you and your family may or may not have dealt with.

Because you told me a set of circumstances under which you felt my opinion might differ. That should be pretty obvious.

Now if you have a direct experience about something are you still telling me you would only be sure after proper research and study? This is what I was SCEPTICAL about.

Well yes, i have direct experience and yes i am telling you i would only be sure after proper research and study. As i said, people confuse cause and affect quite a bit.

You are the one making assumptions about my family and my situation the person in question is not a member of my family you can love someone outside your family.

Apologies, from the way i read it i thought it was a family member. Hardly a point worth taking offence over?

Wertz

RossFixxxed wrote: »

I have had a lot of surgery years ago, i'm held together with bolts and wire and duct tape! It's nerve damage mostly and it can hurt so bad I nearly scream sometimes!

Ross

Ouch, sorry to hear that. In the absence of a ready supply of cannabis, do you use painkillers prescribed by a doctor? I find it vexxing that doctors will have little problem dishing out expensive and potentially addictive substances to help people cope with chronic pain, but people who decide to self medicate to control their pain through cannabis usage are lumped in with all the rest of us criminals.
It brings up that other reason that cannabis will avoid legal/decrim status; it may threaten a lot of very lucrative business within the pharmaceutical industry...probably an awful lot of research going on out there into analogous cannibinoids that could potentially be patented and sold for big profits as pain and stress relief medicine...

Doc

Dragan wrote: »

Because you told me a set of circumstances under which you felt my opinion might differ. That should be pretty obvious.



Well yes, i have direct experience and yes i am telling you i would only be sure after proper research and study. As i said, people confuse cause and affect quite a bit.



Apologies, from the way i read it i thought it was a family member. Hardly a point worth taking offence over?

I in no way meant to say that you did not have direct experience with mental illness.
To be honest I didn’t want to make personal reference to you at all Dragan I don’t know you. I was trying to say that if anyone had experienced the same thing as myself and seen what I and others saw as a direct connection between the use of the drug and their mental illness I would find it very difficult to believe that their attitude towards cannibas use would not change. This is what I was sceptical about.

Even if I wasn’t so sure about the link why risk it particularly if you (and by you I mean anybody not specifically you Dragan) or your family have a history of mental illness.

And Dragan it wasn’t so much that I was offended (although the whole situation has so much emotion wrapped up in it that its difficult not to be about anything anyone says about it) by your mention of my family but the fact that you seamed to take offence at an assumption which you believed I had made after making one yourself about my situation.

ScumLord

Doc wrote: »

I have first hand experience with a person who’s mental illness was triggered by the use of cannibas. I have also been in psychiatric wards where the nurses have said to me that the connection between the use of cannabis and some forms of mental illness is so obvious to them that they have no question in their mind that it is linked

The problem with this is your hardly going to have the other 99% of people the use cannabis without problems checking in just to give nurses a balanced view. Nurses only ever see the worst case scenarios.

I'm sorry to hear about your family member and yes it can happen but some people crash cars, some turn into alcoholics, some can die if they eat a peanut. We're all different but the fact remains the majority of cannabis users never develop any serious conditions just because they use cannabis.

If cannabis wasn't a black market drug we could work on preventing the harm in a much more productive and open way. While it remains in the hands of criminals no one is safe.

Doc

It wasn't a family member.

"99% of people use cannabis without problems" where did you get this figure and are you really that sure about it?

I’m not saying that everyone who uses it will have a problem I know many people who have used it and do not have any problem due to it (yet) but I am saying that there is a risk and I don’t think that it should be legalised.

The fact is that if it where legal a lot more people would use /try it and I don’t think that it’s a good Idea.

I know I would never want to use it or encourage anyone to do so. At the end of the day if anyone wants to use the stuff it’s their life they should be aware there are risks. I don’t think it would be a responsible action to legalise it.