Should cannibas be legalised????

JC 2K3

togster wrote: »

the cummulative effect of smoking day in day out that fcuked me up and friends of mine.

People who smoke day in day out are idiots full stop. If you had enough disregard for your health to be smoking that often then you probably would have fcuked yourself up some other way anyway.

togster

JC 2K3 wrote: »

People who smoke day in day out are idiots full stop. If you had enough disregard for your health to be smoking that often then you probably would have fcuked yourself up some other way anyway.

Yeah i agree people who smoke day in day out are idiots. When i say i smoked day in day out i meant i had 1 j a day. So if we legalise cannabis we should have labels to say , em you can smoke this sh!t but only once a week!? I really don't believe its in the nations interst to legalise it. Why? I have yet to hear why? The usual, the crime, alcohol and cigarettes are legal so why not cannabis. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

kleefarr

jimi_t wrote: »

I'm suprised that this hasn't been brought into the discussion yet :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwylBRucU7w

One good reason for more control of drugs via legitimacy. Who knows what rubbish gets mixed in.

Keep it under control and as natural as possible = Legal.

hopalong85

togster wrote: »

How long have you been smoked? I also have never done anything stupid whilw under the influence of weed but it was the cummulative effect of smoking day in day out that fcuked me up and friends of mine.

I've been smoking on a pretty regular basis since i was about 18. I'm 22 now. So far it hasn't held me or any of my friends back. I'm only basing my opinions on myself and people i know but like i said from my experience alcohol is more destructive. Legalising cannabis would ensure better quality smoke and it would hurt the drug dealers. I don't see legalisation causing a massive increase in usage. People who want to smoke will smoke, it's readily available.

PeakOutput

togster wrote: »

Its the samw sh!t day in day out with these stoners. I was one too, nearly lost my degree, girlfriend family and my sanity. Quit trying to post links to this and that, you won't change my mind, having lived through it (thanfully) and known others who ended up wating their lifes because of weed. No thats a FACT. I'd love to know how long some of these posters have actually been smoking?:rolleyes:

if you couldnt control yourself whose fault is that? any drug can be abused and any drug(well any that are not considered very very strongly addictive) can be taken in moderation with no adverse affect on your life. cannabis is one of those drugs. there are people like me and obviously like you who have addictive personalities and unless they realise it they will get into trouble with substances etc. luckily i realised it early and changed what i was getting addicted to to activities and not substances

Terry

bubonicus wrote: »

thats great, you think I have a chip on my shoulder too.

So I post a link to a scientific study, and I get called a stoner with a chip on my shoulder.

I was saying Terry is like Michael Moore because he quoted me out of context.

I wish people just would have read the original link i posted and the disclaimer at the bottom. :rolleyes:

Who called you a stoner with a chip on your shoulder?

DaveMcG inferred that I was a drunk with a chip on my shoulder.

I didn't quote you out of context. I merely took your words and used them to suit my arguement.

Bendihorse

In a word, No. People are dumb enough without that stuff being made legal. Why legalise 'smoking' cannabis when smoking ciggs has been proven to be so bad for you and great lenghts are gone to to try and encourage people to give up?

- Have to admit i didn't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been covered.

kleefarr

A little off topic but still relevant....

Let us pay taxes!

With the possibility of the economy slowing down this would be an excellent avenue of revenue.

Win/Win. Freedom of choice.

togster

PeakOutput wrote: »

if you couldnt control yourself whose fault is that? any drug can be abused and any drug(well any that are not considered very very strongly addictive) can be taken in moderation with no adverse affect on your life. cannabis is one of those drugs. there are people like me and obviously like you who have addictive personalities and unless they realise it they will get into trouble with substances etc. luckily i realised it early and changed what i was getting addicted to to activities and not substances

I think your right but wht legalise something that affects people adveresly?

PeakOutput

togster wrote: »

I think your right but wht legalise something that affects people adveresly?

and we are back to the original argment........how is it different to the other legal substances that cause equally as much damage


this is going to go around around in circles

togster

PeakOutput wrote: »

and we are back to the original argment........how is it different to the other legal substances that cause equally as much damage

So just because there are others you should legalise cannabis?
As i already said 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Terry

PeakOutput wrote: »

and we are back to the original argment........how is it different to the other legal substances that cause equally as much damage


this is going to go around around in circles

Let's legalise murder and kiddy fiddling.
People do it and they enjoy it. why not make it legal?
The cops can legally kill people under certain circumstances and some people would regard having sex with a seventeen year old as child abuse and the age of consent is lower in the Netherlands.

Ridiculous arguement, right?

Of course it is.

So is saying that cannabis should be legal because alcohol and tobacco is.

Gingervitis

My two cents...
I smoke it the odd time, but don't go crazy looking for it.
I feel that it shouldn't be legalised, on the basis of the whole alcohol/tobacco argument.

If you lived in a society where guns were freely available to everyone over 18, but slash hooks were illegal, some people would complain that knives should be legalised, because they don't do as much harm as guns and have some useful functions (don't ask me what functions, just go with the analogy).

However, just because something isn't as immediately dangerous as another thing doesn't give it the right to be legalised, ( a kind of "in for a penny, in for a pound").

Look at it another way. The Irish (and this is a sweeping generalisation) don't seem to have much in the way of options regarding recreation at night, hence the packed pubs you see most weekends and public holidays. As a corollory, you tend to see a huge lack of restraint regarding a large portion (>50%) of people, especially young people, who abuse alchohol. We're not talking using a substance, like a glass of wine with dinner or whatever, we're talking abuse i.e binging, double vodka red bull, drinking to get drunk.
If cannabis gets legalised, who's to say that the same isn't going to happen? I don't think that there's much of a qualitative difference between drinkers and smokers; you see those show little adverse affect to either drink or ganj, and those who take it to extremes and become alcoholics in the case of drink, (along and the related problems of even binge drinking, health and social) and stoners in the case of ganj (along with the related risk of memory and all the negative stories told by anti-legalistion ex-smokers on this thread).

On a related note, with cigarettes, they're legal for over 18s, yet young kids buy them/get older people to buy for them all the time, so the whole "it'll be regulated" argument is moot anyway.

Anyone who says there isn't any inherent risk in legalising cannabis, if you take into account younger kids/ psychologically vulnerable people, isn't looking at the wider picture re. the failings of a distressingly large proportion of young Irish people in relation to self control.

End of rant. ps. I'm not a fogey, I'm 20.

froosh69

if alcohol and cigarettes are legal, why not cannabis?

im not talkin about the effects of getting drunk or being stoned,but the long term mental issues.

alcohol causes depression, cigarettes (in extreme cases) cause terrible mood swings and cannabis causes dimentia, schitzophenia etc.

my point is that all should be legal or illegal...whats the difference?

kleefarr

Gingervitis wrote:

..we're talking abuse i.e binging, double vodka red bull, drinking to get drunk. If cannabis gets legalised, who's to say that the same isn't going to happen?

I don't think the same thing would happen at all. With regard to over doing the cannabis (proper stuff, not soap bar or whatever), I think you'll find people crashed out all over the place, not trying to beat each others brains out and vomiting in the streets.

ScumLord

Terry wrote: »

Ridiculous arguement, right?

Of course it is.

So is saying that cannabis should be legal because alcohol and tobacco is.

It sets president, it blows holes in the argument that weed is too dangerous for public consumption. It's a simple and valid point. Cannabis is not as dangerous as alcohol and tobacco, tobacco is just an addiction you get nothing out of it other than an addiction, it's a money spinning drug for the suppliers and the only reason it's allowed is because the government gets its cut.

Cannabis has been in use for thousands of years, this blip of prohibition is new, we want to go back to the way things where. When cannabis wasn't a problem and my freedoms where not being stepped on by people that just don't want to see me get high and enjoy myself. Whats it got to do with anybody if I get stoned every once and a while? I still don't see any good reason to spend so much time and money to send a smoker to prison.

Gingervitis

kleefarr wrote: »

I don't think the same thing would happen at all. With regard to over doing the cannabis (proper stuff, not soap bar or whatever), I think you'll find people crashed out all over the place, not trying to beat each others brains out and vomiting in the streets.

I'll clarify my point: I don't necessarily mean behavioural consequences, I'm talking substance abuse health consequences. If someone goes sniffing petrol and overdoes it, he doesn't beat other people up, he "crashes out" like you said.
I'm stressing abuse. I won't get into a debate about cannabis and health, because there's too much inconclusive, contradictory information floating about, but if anyone abuses any substance, be it solvents, recreational drugs, even food (see obesity) it will have health risks, and that is what certain young people in Ireland will do. Therefore, why legalise another substance when that is what is going to happen?

We're not talking about cannabis per se, we're talking about people who can't say "no", or "I've had enough".

ScumLord wrote: »

I still don't see any good reason to spend so much time and money to send a smoker to prison.

You've a fair point there, I think it should be one of the softer offences legally (maybe relative to kicking kittens...), but we should keep distribution illegal, if only to cut down the widespread supply,(part of me cried while typing that, "just stop making all those drug busts!"***) because, let's face it, people are going to get it anyway.

Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's inherently bad, I'm just concerned about everyone getting their hands on it. That's the crux of my argument.



***I acknowledge that this point ruins some of my argument... ah well, sure we're all only human, can't have it all one way!

SubjectSean

Terry wrote: »

So is saying that cannabis should be legal because alcohol and tobacco is.

Are people saying that? Cannabis was entirely legal here in Ireland until 1937. Alcohol and tobacco didn't get banned but cannabis did. At least when the 7 countries that have tried banning alcohol did so it was because alcohol was causing serious social problems. Cannabis was causing no such problems and yet still was banned. As other posters on this forum have pointed out it was banned becuse of racism and the chemical lobby in the US. I think this is what is being bemoaned. Alcohol is a far more dangerous drug than cannabis and it is ridiculous that it is permitted and profited from by the State whilst cannabis is not.

Terry

ScumLord wrote: »

It sets president, it blows holes in the argument that weed is too dangerous for public consumption. It's a simple and valid point. Cannabis is not as dangerous as alcohol and tobacco, tobacco is just an addiction you get nothing out of it other than an addiction, it's a money spinning drug for the suppliers and the only reason it's allowed is because the government gets its cut.

Cannabis has been in use for thousands of years, this blip of prohibition is new, we want to go back to the way things where. When cannabis wasn't a problem and my freedoms where not being stepped on by people that just don't want to see me get high and enjoy myself. Whats it got to do with anybody if I get stoned every once and a while? I still don't see any good reason to spend so much time and money to send a smoker to prison.

Alcohol can be good for you in certain doses.

You'll get no arguement from me regarding tobacco. If it was up to me, it would be banned in the morning.

The thing is, you're just going back to the same tired old arguement of 'alcohol and tobacco are legal, why isn't cannabis?'

Your personal rights have nothing to do with this and they have never been infringed upon because you were never legally allowed to use cannabis in this country.

Terry

SubjectSean wrote: »

Are people saying that? Cannabis was entirely legal here in Ireland until 1937. Alcohol and tobacco didn't get banned but cannabis did. At least when the 7 countries that have tried banning alcohol did so it was because alcohol was causing serious social problems. Cannabis was causing no such problems and yet still was banned. As other posters on this forum have pointed out it was banned becuse of racism and the chemical lobby in the US. I think this is what is being bemoaned. Alcohol is a far more dangerous drug than cannabis and it is ridiculous that it is permitted and profited from by the State whilst cannabis is not.

Have you read this thread?
Have you read any of the other billion threads of the same nature on this subject?

That's pretty much all people are saying.

As for the racism arguement, that's just liberal P.C. hippy crap.
Saying that America banned it to try and get rid of Mexicans is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard in my life.
Yeah. Take away the weed and they'll all go back to Mexico.

It's illegal because it ****s with your perceptions and is harder to control than alcohol.

togster

Terry wrote: »

Have you read this thread?
Have you read any of the other billion threads of the same nature on this subject?

That's pretty much all people are saying.

As for the racism arguement, that's just liberal P.C. hippy crap.
Saying that America banned it to try and get rid of Mexicans is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard in my life.
Yeah. Take away the weed and they'll all go back to Mexico.

It's illegal because it ****s with your perceptions and is harder to control than alcohol.

Yeah what he said.

Tzetze

Tobacco and alcohol are no threat to the plastics and nylons industry. The cultivation of hemp is of massive threat to the Oligarchs profits, and that's the ONLY reason why it has been banned over the last 70 years. They are the ones with the vested interests in ensuring the right kind of spin stays spun.

The very notion that the ape inhabitants of Mother Earth could ban or prevent the growth of natural resources is both absurd and preposterous.

Overgrow your government. (Grow your own dope)

As a cannabis smoker of 20 years (certainly averaging at >1j a day), I can categorically say that it hasn't destroyed my intelligence, nor my ambition, nor my libido.

As a musician, weed brings out so much creativity when I play or jam with friends.

Those of you who hate weed so passionately... navigate to your 20G+ mp3 folder and delete it. All those stoner musicians used weed ya know?

ScumLord

Gingervitis wrote: »

We're not talking about cannabis per se, we're talking about people who can't say "no", or "I've had enough".

That's no way to run a society though, these people are in the minority and can be helped to live a normal life without drugs. If these things where brought into the open and there wasn't such a stigma attached to becoming a dependant it might be very possible to catch the warning signs earlier on. At the end of the day it's up to these people. Everyone has problems but they don't drag us all down with them.

Terry wrote:

Alcohol can be good for you in certain doses.

So can cannabis in many more ways than alcohol.

The thing is, you're just going back to the same tired old arguement of 'alcohol and tobacco are legal, why isn't cannabis?'

It's not the hole of the argument but it's a valid part of it but I'll leave it at that because I don't think either of us are going to agree on this point.

Your personal rights have nothing to do with this and they have never been infringed upon because you were never legally allowed to use cannabis in this country.

What difference does that make, just because I've never held the right doesn't mean I'm not entitled to it, would the men and women that fought for Irish freedom have accepted that?

As for the racism arguement, that's just liberal P.C. hippy crap.

Again it's a valid part of it, the Americans hated the Mexicans and the drugs they brought into the country. It wasn't the direct cause of criminalisation but it played a part.

PeakOutput

So is saying that cannabis should be legal because alcohol and tobacco is.

it might not be a reason for it to be legalised but if you take alcohol and tobacco as examples it shows that being dangerous to your health is definitely not reason alone to have it illegal

the fact of the matter is someone smoking hash has NO affect on other people(no more so than smoking does at the moment anyway) all the crimes you listed that people "enjoy" seriously affect other people ie they are dead or have issues later on due to being abused.

so that being the case and it also being the case that it being dangerous to your health is not reason enough for it to be banned................WHY IS IT ILLEGAL

the post above is the first iv heard of it having anything to do with the textile industry so i dont know anything about it but if anyone has any other suggestions im all ears

togster

PeakOutput wrote: »

WHY IS IT ILLEGAL

Because its is. Im sick of arguing this point over and over with people. You are etitled to your opinion. I just think your wrong to say that because two other harmful drugs are legal, lets make them all legal. Where does it stop....
Next it will be cocaine and pills and heroin. Sur if you use the above in moderation too whats the harm?

PeakOutput

togster wrote: »

I just think your wrong to say that because two other harmful drugs are legal, lets make them all legal.

assuming you mean me personally if you re-read what i said you will see that i specifically said its not an argument for legalisation........i think i said it twice in fact but i couldnt be arsed searching my previous points for it

Next it will be cocaine and pills and heroin. Sur if you use the above in moderation too whats the harm?

the difference is addiction. im not too sure about ecstacy but i know exactly how addictive heroin is and i know that cocaine in certain forms is MORE addictive than heroin. as far as i am aware there is no PHYSICAL addiction to hash........certain people will become mentally addicted.


edit; and "because it is" is not an argument its a cop out

togster

PeakOutput wrote: »

assuming you mean me personally if you re-read what i said you will see that i specifically said its not an argument for legalisation........i think i said it twice in fact but i couldnt be arsed searching my previous points for it



the difference is addiction. im not too sure about ecstacy but i know exactly how addictive heroin is and i know that cocaine in certain forms is MORE addictive than heroin. as far as i am aware there is no PHYSICAL addiction to hash........certain people will become mentally addicted.


edit; and "because it is" is not an argument its a cop out

No i didn't mean you in particaular. OK so now we are the point of addictiveness. Well what is addiction,, like you pointed out it can be both physical and mental. hash in my experience is like you said mentally addicitve but this form of addiction can be just as powerfull as the other form in people with certain personality. I think we owe it to those people to keep it illegal.

Dave!

So we'll ban chocolate, gambling, sex, etc., shall we? All can lead to psychological dependancy.

PeakOutput

DaveMcG wrote: »

So we'll ban chocolate, gambling, sex, etc., shall we? All can lead to psychological dependancy.

exactly......i dont agree with depriving the majority for the sake of the minority.......i believe in helping the minority with their problems....but they are two different ideological points of view i suppose and therefore agreement between them will never be reached. i just have to hpe that if it ever comes to any sort of referendum more people hold my view than yours(i doubt they will dont get me wrong)

Dave!

I don't believe for a second that togster wants to ban chocolate, gambling, or sex.... he just doesn't want cannabis to be legal and is looking for a reason why he believes that.

There goes the "addictive" argument out the window.........

Is it time to bring out the big guns?

"Well the REAL reason why it should be illegal is cos, eh..... IT'S A GATEWAY DRUG!!! Yes, that's why."