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Christianity in the modern world.
Comments
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This made me curious: Are you saying here that you believe that the kindness of your non-Christian neighbours isn't as strong as the kindness of Christians, that it does not have a powerful impact and thus doesn't really "work"?
Do you mean that non-Christians cannot do any real good?
Another point is that something done for Christ or "in union" with Christ is far more meritorious because God considers the good coming from Christ but applies the merit to us so the act becomes infinitely good as opposed to finite.
God bless,
Noel.0 -
IMO, I'd say that Christianity is likely to be the most pleasing to God.
I understand that this thread is about christianity in the modern world but I had to raise this point. Christianity is only likely to be the most pleasing to God if the Christian god is really the one true god.
If the Christian god doesn't exist then it's hardly likely that whatever divine power is up there is going to find the worship of an incorrect idea of what it is very pleasing. If the real god is a she for example, she might take exception to being constantly referred to as a male.
I know you were only stating your opinion but that opinion makes a rather large assumption.0 -
by kelly1 - Surely the truth regarding the way to everlasting life must be of paramount concern for us humans? This life is only a short sojourn on the road to eternity.
100% true!!!!!!!by kelly1 - You say that all roads eventually lead to God but what if you're wrong? What if Jesus is the only way to God and reincarnation is a cunning trick of the devil to lure poor souls into a false sense of security???
It is a common mistake to have reincarnation and eternal life confused. To Buddhists eternal life comes after all Karma is fulfilled. ""Many lives" does not mean "eternal life". Eternal life is beyond life. Not after life, not before life, not many lives - it means beyond life. And that is hard to explain. You can only discover it through mediation, through Jesus' Way. 40 days in the desert is a good start. Or, Buddha's Way. Find a Bodhi tree.
When Jesus says he is the Way, he means meditation is the Way, prayer is the Way, not falling for the many distractions of the material world - is the Way. Jakkass' explanation of asking for help from the holy spirit in this, is also a useful aspect of Christianity. Buddhist simply go deeply into an attitude of trust and surrender. It's just a more abstract way than thinking of the holy ghost/spirit - but it is the same mechanism.
Nothing in the material world is eternal or infinite. Not even Christianity. Just pretend Jesus never said anything - and take what is left - that! - is the Way. You have to figure out what that is! All words, all teachings, all religions are of the finite world. Nothing but boats. Useful, but just ways to get home.
If you believe your boat - Christianity - is the only boat, just make sure you stay in it!!! You'll see when you get there whether all the other people made it or not. Wouldn't you be happy if all the Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Jews were already there to welcome you? Wouldn't you turn around and welcome all the Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus and Jews that came behind you?0 -
MeditationMom wrote: »Nothing in the material world is eternal or infinite. Not even Christianity. Just pretend Jesus never said anything - and take what is left - that! - is the Way. You have to figure out what that is! All words, all teachings, all religions are of the finite world. Nothing but boats. Useful, but just ways to get home.
The way must be nothing, or if I was to take your post literally it would mean Judaism if Jesus said nothing.
The very purpose of Christ was exactly to lead us on the way (Gk: hodos). That is why he had a group of followers and that is essentially why he took a huge roadtrip if you want modern terms, to tell everyone of the ways by which they should lead. Living a Christian life as far as we are concerned (I think Noel will agree?) is following the teachings of Christ. Gk: Christianos = partisan of Christ.
You have to understand that there is the New Jerusalem (described in Revelations), and a place where God will live with mankind.0 -
MeditationMom wrote: »It is a common mistake to have reincarnation and eternal life confused. To Buddhists eternal life comes after all Karma is fulfilled. ""Many lives" does not mean "eternal life". Eternal life is beyond life.MeditationMom wrote: »When Jesus says he is the Way, he means meditation is the Way, prayer is the Way, not falling for the many distractions of the material world - is the Way.MeditationMom wrote: »Nothing in the material world is eternal or infinite. Not even Christianity. Just pretend Jesus never said anything - and take what is left - that! - is the Way. You have to figure out what that is! All words, all teachings, all religions are of the finite world. Nothing but boats. Useful, but just ways to get home.Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Why pretend Jesus never said anything?! He spoke the truth! What's leftover is lies. Sorry, you're using that fluffy language again.MeditationMom wrote: »If you believe your boat - Christianity - is the only boat, just make sure you stay in it!!!MeditationMom wrote: »You'll see when you get there whether all the other people made it or not. Wouldn't you be happy if all the Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Jews were already there to welcome you? Wouldn't you turn around and welcome all the Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus and Jews that came behind you?0 -
Living a Christian life as far as we are concerned (I think Noel will agree?) is following the teachings of Christ. Gk: Christianos = partisan of Christ.0
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CerebralCortex wrote: »And you call us atheists arrogant!!??0
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MeditationMom wrote: »100% true!!!!!!!
It is a common mistake to have reincarnation and eternal life confused. To Buddhists eternal life comes after all Karma is fulfilled. ""Many lives" does not mean "eternal life". Eternal life is beyond life. Not after life, not before life, not many lives - it means beyond life. And that is hard to explain. You can only discover it through mediation, through Jesus' Way. 40 days in the desert is a good start. Or, Buddha's Way. Find a Bodhi tree.
When Jesus says he is the Way, he means meditation is the Way, prayer is the Way, not falling for the many distractions of the material world - is the Way. Jakkass' explanation of asking for help from the holy spirit in this, is also a useful aspect of Christianity. Buddhist simply go deeply into an attitude of trust and surrender. It's just a more abstract way than thinking of the holy ghost/spirit - but it is the same mechanism.
Nothing in the material world is eternal or infinite. Not even Christianity. Just pretend Jesus never said anything - and take what is left - that! - is the Way. You have to figure out what that is! All words, all teachings, all religions are of the finite world. Nothing but boats. Useful, but just ways to get home.
If you believe your boat - Christianity - is the only boat, just make sure you stay in it!!! You'll see when you get there whether all the other people made it or not. Wouldn't you be happy if all the Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Jews were already there to welcome you? Wouldn't you turn around and welcome all the Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus and Jews that came behind you?
Thats a fantastic explanation of your point.0 -
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True! What a paradox, as reality is really fantasy anyway.0
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I do believe however that God will take into account peoples ignorance of the Gospel and judge people according to how they lived.Kelly1 wrote:But without Christ, we're all damned. Simple as that.
So God will take into account that people born into different religious backgrounds will be ignorant to Christianity's teachings and then punish them anyway for not eating Christ every Sunday?
Sort of a twisted logic.0 -
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http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=55126314&postcount=106
God will ...... punish them anyway for not eating Christ every Sunday?0 -
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I didn't say the above, did I?
Well my replies aren't always going to use your exact words. I quoted you above my reply. The bit that is in the quote tags is the quote.
You said that God will take into account people being brought up through other faiths. Then you said that without Christ we are damned.
Make up your mind.0 -
Well my replies aren't always going to use your exact words. I quoted you above my reply. The bit that is in the quote tags is the quote.
You said that God will take into account people being brought up through other faiths. Then you said that without Christ we are damned.
Make up your mind.0 -
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Oh I see. Just to clarify, what I mean is that if Christ hadn't died on the cross, nobody could possibly be saved, regardless of their religion. i.e Nobody is saved ever except by Christ's atoning sacrifice. So Christ wasn't just another teacher. He is the source of all Truth and He came to save us primarily by His sacrifice and also with the truth.
This is what turned me away from Christianity and every time I hear it I'm glad I did.0 -
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The unwavering belief that your right and everyone else is following the wrong path. And even if they come out of it OK its because Jesus took pity on them.
Ah yes, the dreadful belief that one's own opinion is right, and therefore that contradictory opinions are wrong.
So you, monosharp, would appear to be saying that your non-exclusive views are right. Therefore you disagree with Noel because his contradictory opinion (exclusivity) is therefore ... er ... wrong?0 -
The unwavering belief that your right and everyone else is following the wrong path. And even if they come out of it OK its because Jesus took pity on them.0
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Ah yes, the dreadful belief that one's own opinion is right, and therefore that contradictory opinions are wrong.
So you, monosharp, would appear to be saying that your non-exclusive views are right. Therefore you disagree with Noel because his contradictory opinion (exclusivity) is therefore ... er ... wrong?
I never said it was wrong, I said its what turned me away from Christianity.
I don't know if Noel's opinion is right or wrong.0 -
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It's simple logic. Some religion must be right or they're all wrong.
I couldn't agree less.
I firmly believe that large swaths, if not all parts, of many religions are completely man-made.
Are you suggesting a Catholic will go to heaven because he picked the right religion while a Protestant won't because he does things slightly differently ? Or maybe the Jews have the right religion and they're going to heaven because they don't eat Pork which any divine being will tell you is an immediate ticket to eternal damnation.This idea that we're all going to heaven/nirvana/happy hunting ground and that God doesn't care who or what we worship is nonsensical. God would surely favour of a religion that is in accordance with His truth and that worships Him and makes atonement to Him as He wishes. Other religions would necessarily be displeasing to Him.
I wonder if Jesus returned tomorrow would he even recongise Christianity.0 -
I couldn't agree less.
I firmly believe that large swaths, if not all parts, of many religions are completely man-made.Are you suggesting a Catholic will go to heaven because he picked the right religion while a Protestant won't because he does things slightly differently ? Or maybe the Jews have the right religion and they're going to heaven because they don't eat Pork which any divine being will tell you is an immediate ticket to eternal damnation.I wonder if Jesus returned tomorrow would he even recongise Christianity.0 -
kelly1 wrote:Other religions would necessarily be displeasing to Him.
Well thats ok if other gods take in their own followers.0 -
Are you assuming that all religions are man made or do you allow for the the possiblity that there is one true divinely-revealed religion (excluding the false/deluded prophets).
My minds open to anything.I really don't want to get into a debate about who will be saved and who won't - only God know that. I'm interested primarily in getting at the truth. There are so many contradiction between religions and even within Christianity that they can't all be true.
My minds open to anything and I'm willing to learn about anything and constantly relearn.
I'm not saying I think there's one true religion and I'm not saying there's not because its impossible to know. I'm not saying Christianity is wrong and I'm not saying its right. Christianity has many great and worthwhile traits, the same as Islam, Buddhism and many many others.
Your talking about the differences between religions and then saying they can't all be true. I'm asking why not ?
Most religions core belief (as far as I'm aware anyways) -> Be a good person.
Are you saying that a divine being like God (if he exists) will care about something like ... oh I don't know. If we eat meat on a friday or if we eat cows or if we don't confess our sins or if we use condoms or if we spend every sunday worshipping him through prayer or if we call him Ala or God.
If you take a Christian and a Muslim, at the end of the day what's the difference ? They both pray to God, they both have it as part of their religion to be a good person.I'm sure Jesus is apalled at the state of the Catholic Church and Christianity in general. That doesn't make Christianity wrong just because followers behave in an unchristian manner.
I never said Christianity was wrong.
Moreso I'd say almost every deity in every religion would be appalled at the state of their churches and followers today if they existed and returned.
Imagine Jesus and the Pope having a chat.
Jesus -> Hang on a minute there boss, what's all this condom/abortion business about ? And what's the deal with spending every Sunday morning talking to God when you could be out there helping people or being a better person. And what's your problem with gay people ? Didn't I say love thy neighbour ? Did I say "love thy neighbour unless he's X, Y or Z" ?0 -
Imagine Jesus and the Pope having a chat.
Jesus -> Hang on a minute there boss, what's all this condom/abortion business about ? And what's the deal with spending every Sunday morning talking to God when you could be out there helping people or being a better person. And what's your problem with gay people ? Didn't I say love thy neighbour ? Did I say "love thy neighbour unless he's X, Y or Z" ?
Christ said to love your neighbour but at the time he didn't do away with religious laws. You can love someone who doesn't follow the Christian faith you know? Infact you could argue that telling people about the Christian faith is or if it isn't should be an act of compassion.0 -
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Imagine Jesus and the Pope having a chat.
Jesus -> Hang on a minute there boss, what's all this condom/abortion business about ? And what's the deal with spending every Sunday morning talking to God when you could be out there helping people or being a better person. And what's your problem with gay people ? Didn't I say love thy neighbour ? Did I say "love thy neighbour unless he's X, Y or Z" ?
Given that Jesus commanded His disciples to go into the world and preach the Gospel to every creature, I reckon that He would be more likely to tell the Pope off for not encouraging his adherents to do the very kind of witnessing that you seem to find irritating.
I think it would take a very active imagination for one to imagine Jesus telling the Pope that he shouldn't worry too much about killing babies.0 -
I think it would take a very active imagination for one to imagine Jesus telling the Pope that he shouldn't worry too much about killing babies.
50 million will be killed this year, and 1 billion have been killed since it was first legalized. It boggles my mind to see how people regard this behaviour as acceptable.0 -
A little reminder that we are in the Buddhist forum here, and maybe a good place to ask - as I don't know for sure - where Buddhism stands on abortion.
From what I have heard the Dalai Lama say regarding many sexual issues - homosexuality, promiscuity, abortion, marriage, etc - he frames it not around the idea of religious or ethical dogma, right and wrong, sin and sinner, but frames it in the light of human dignity, and as always, in the light of compassion.
Many issues cannot be reduced to "this behavior is right or wrong" with the Bible, or any other scripture, as "munition". What is wrong in one case is right in another, without this being "wishy-washy" thinking, but wisdom. Wisdom to know the difference between right and wrong in the light of human dignity and in the light of compassion. Jesus himself demonstrated this again and again. Hanging out with prostitutes, lepers, adulterers, tax collectors, the lowest of the lowest, and preaching on the sabbath - committing one "sin" after another according to his religion. He went against his day's "only religion" to teach this wisdom - only to have his followers create yet another "only religion". What a waste. Pearls before swine.
Everything depends on the circumstances - and it takes tremendous humility and wisdom to know what is right and wrong at any time. It is not something one can look up in a book. Life is a sequence of trials and errors that teach us, if we pay attention. And it is the joy of being human - this infinite variety, and our individual and unique interaction with it all. For those who have no wisdom there are laws - religious or otherwise - and they do serve a purpose, no doubt. But one has to grow up.
The scriptures are there to inspire us and make us contemplate the inner life. They are full of wisdom and also full of added non-sense, not said by the original teachers, or said 2000 or 5000 years ago in a very different context and bound to be misunderstood today. Therefore they are not to be followed blindly or used as a justifications for rude, arrogant, patronizing, or even worse kinds of behavior.
In Buddhism we talk about maintaining a Beginner's Mind. This means an open, awake mind of "I don't know",and an inner attitude of kindness, compassion, and humility.0 -
MeditationMom wrote: »Take a magic marker and highlight every sentence in the bible YOU agree with100%. After you do that, do the same to any other scriptures of other religions you come across. Contemplate the things you have highlighted.
MM, your method also assumes that the individual is the source of morality - a seemingly consumerist conceit, when in fact God is the source.The faith you need is not faith in any religion. That is always what the church wants you to do. The faith you need - and this you can take from Christianity, or me, or many others, is this: "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!" Trust that, whatever it is you don't understand will be revealed to you, bit by bit, as is best for you. Keep an attitude of trust, love, expectancy, open mindedness and open hearted-ness towards existence, life, the universe, God, yourself. Spend time is nature, in silence. Listen.Jesus left his church, his faith, and its elders behind also!Here is one of my favorite quotes:
By Ramana Maharshi: "No one doubts that he exists, though you may doubt the existence of God. If you find out the truth about yourself and discover your own source, this is all that is required."0 -
Imagine Jesus and the Pope having a chat.
Jesus -> Hang on a minute there boss, what's all this condom/abortion business about ? And what's the deal with spending every Sunday morning talking to God when you could be out there helping people or being a better person. And what's your problem with gay people ? Didn't I say love thy neighbour ? Did I say "love thy neighbour unless he's X, Y or Z" ?
"Becoming a better person" has implications you probably don't realise, like egocentrism, judgement and self-righteousness.
Matthew 12
9Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"
11He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
13Then he said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other.
Christianity is more than an ethical code. If it only were that, it would be the same as all other religions.50 million will be killed this year, and 1 billion have been killed since it was first legalized. It boggles my mind to see how people regard this behaviour as acceptable.0 -
MeditationMom wrote: »A little reminder that we are in the Buddhist forum here,
Indeed, yes, we are. Lovely post by the way.In Buddhism we talk about maintaining a Beginner's Mind. This means an open, awake mind of "I don't know",and an inner attitude of kindness, compassion, and humility.
This is an interesting debate, long over due here, but I would ask all to keep the Charter in mind.
Asia0 -
MeditationMom wrote: »
In Buddhism we talk about maintaining a Beginner's Mind. This means an open, awake mind of "I don't know",and an inner attitude of kindness, compassion, and humility.
This is exactly what first drew me to this forum to try and get ideas as to how to explore my own ideas of spirituality.0 -
MeditationMom wrote: »Many issues cannot be reduced to "this behavior is right or wrong" with the Bible, or any other scripture, as "munition". What is wrong in one case is right in another, without this being "wishy-washy" thinking, but wisdom. Wisdom to know the difference between right and wrong in the light of human dignity and in the light of compassion.MeditationMom wrote: »Jesus himself demonstrated this again and again. Hanging out with prostitutes, lepers, adulterers, tax collectors, the lowest of the lowest, and preaching on the sabbath - committing one "sin" after another according to his religion. He went against his day's "only religion" to teach this wisdom - only to have his followers create yet another "only religion". What a waste. Pearls before swine.MeditationMom wrote: »For those who have no wisdom there are laws - religious or otherwise - and they do serve a purpose, no doubt. But one has to grow up.MeditationMom wrote: »The scriptures are there to inspire us and make us contemplate the inner life. They are full of wisdom and also full of added non-sense, not said by the original teachers, or said 2000 or 5000 years ago in a very different context and bound to be misunderstood todayMeditationMom wrote: »In Buddhism we talk about maintaining a Beginner's Mind. This means an open, awake mind of "I don't know",and an inner attitude of kindness, compassion, and humility.0
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I find the idea that celebrating our fellowship as Christians on Sundays is exclusive of helping other people (which we should be doing every day anyway) to be offensive.
Not only offensive but also manifestly untrue. Research consistently indicates that the more often a person attends worship services, the more they give to charity and also the more time they devote to volunteering for community service. Even if you discount charitable giving to churches, and volunteerism in religious causes, this still holds true. Regular church goers (in fact, I believe this is also true of those who participate in non-Christian forms of worship), on average, donate more to purely secular charities than non-churchgoers. They also commit more time to purely secular community volunteerism than do non-churchgoers.0 -
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Don't imply that abortion is a product of legalisation. It happened before legalisation, and the reasons why it is done go much deeper than law.
I didn't imply but it certainly opened the floodgates to a much further level.Christianity is more than an ethical code. If it only were that, it would be the same as all other religions.
Exactly right, it's the "more" that compels us to follow the ethical code.0 -
Kelly1 wrote:
Hello Maitri, my answer to this is that some good done for the love of God is far more valuable in the sight of God than the same thing done purely out of human goodness. Christ said that what we did for/to the least of His brethern was done for/to Him.
Hey Noel!
So he said indeed. But didn’t he actually also say (according to the Bible) that people would not know they did it for him? That they would say: “When did we see you hungry or thirsty or in need of clothes?”Jakkass wrote:Also, when one does a good deed to another, I always try to remember that this is God working through mankind, any appending of these good deeds to a particular person can in some cases lead to arrogance
Hey J!:)
I believe I can see the good point of this point of view.Jakkass wrote:But to answer the main point of your question, I believe good deeds that come through Christians are more likely to repeat themselves than good deeds that come as a result of no faith at all.
I'm still curious: Is this your personal experience or is it an opinion based on ideology?
And BTW, are you not perhaps forgetting Jesus’ story about the Good Samaritan?Jakkass wrote:
The point is not that non-Christians cannot do good, it's that if you are Christian you have more power to do good if you ask it from the Spirit.
And you are sure the Spirit only works through Christians? (Not through Hindus like Gandhi? Or Jews like Anne Frank? Etc…)
PS to kelly1: About Jesus telling he is the "Way the Truth and the Life".
1 John 4:8 says that “God is Love”: "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."
If God is Love and Jesus is God, as Christians believe, doesn’t that really mean that Love is the “Way the Truth and the Life"?Which (if I’m not wrong) is not very far from what MeditationMom means when she talks about meditation being the Way the Truth and the Life”0 -
I'm still curious: Is this your personal experience or is it an opinion based on ideology?
And BTW, are you not perhaps forgetting Jesus’ story about the Good Samaritan?
The Good Samaritan refers to a group who were put to the edges of society. We welcome anyone of any walk of life to take part in Christianity. (Galatians 3:28)0 -
The Good Samaritan refers to a group who were put to the edges of society.
This is true and it is also true they were despised. However there were also religious differences as the Samaritans did not agree with the Jews on important points, e.g. The Samaritans claimed - and still claim - that their worship (as opposed to mainstream Judaism) is the true religion of the ancient Israelites, predating the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
They believed (and still believe) that Mount Gerizim, not Jerusalem, is the one true sanctuary chosen by Israel's God. They also have a significantly different version of the Ten Commandments (for example, their 10th commandment is about the sanctity of Mt. Gerizim). Samaritans also rejected Jewish codes of law and had another view on priesthood.We welcome anyone of any walk of life to take part in Christianity.0 -
This is true and it is also true they were despised. However there were also religious differences as the Samaritans did not agree with the Jews on important points, e.g. The Samaritans claimed - and still claim - that their worship (as opposed to mainstream Judaism) is the true religion of the ancient Israelites, predating the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.
They believed (and still believe) that Mount Gerizim, not Jerusalem, is the one true sanctuary chosen by Israel's God. They also have a significantly different version of the Ten Commandments (for example, their 10th commandment is about the sanctity of Mt. Gerizim). Samaritans also rejected Jewish codes of law and had another view on priesthood.
Only as long as they accept all your main dogmas, I believe.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting Christians should do here. However we should be concious to making people feel welcome in our churches and in our communities even if they do not believe in the same way we do. However that said and done, I cannot and will not deny that Jesus and the Christianity that he brought to the world is the truth according to my belief system.
Hm, as for accepting dogma, that's rather difficult considering that even certain churches differ (albeit in a minor sense) in relation to dogma. However, I think it is important to guide people towards the Christian path instead of forcing them to. It is the choice of the person whether to accept Biblical teachings or not, I don't see how we are excluding people from Christianity by offering them a choice. Every religion comes with key beliefs. It would be like me claiming to follow Judaism but the next day eating a bacon sandwich. It's a choice whether to accept or reject it.0 -
I'm not sure what you are suggesting Christians should do here. However we should be concious to making people feel welcome in our churches and in our communities even if they do not believe in the same way we do.
Hey J
I am sorry having ben rather unclear here. I'll try to explain my point better:
You said that you believe good deeds that come through Christians are more likely to repeat themselves than good deeds that come as a result of no faith at all, and I suggested that the story of the Good Samaritan might tell that this is not what Jesus was teaching. Then you said that the Samaritans were kept out of society while everybody is welcomed into Christianity, and I replied that even so the Samaritans also differed from the Jews in central beliefs. My point being: IMHO by telling the story of the Good Samaritan Jesus is reminding his listeners that people with different religious beliefs who are despised by the "true believers" can do real good and sometimes indeed do more good than the "pious". However there are always different ways of interpreting a story (at least if it is any good;)) and other people might read this story another way of course...
BTW, I would still be happy to know if it is your personal experience that good deeds that come through Christians are more likely to repeat themselves than good deeds that come as a result of no faith at all.However that said and done, I cannot and will not deny that Jesus and the Christianity that he brought to the world is the truth according to my belief system.
I am very happy about the last part of the sentence: "according to my belief system". It reminds me of a quote from a Buddhist sutra:"If a person has conviction, his statement, 'This is my conviction,' safeguards the truth. But he doesn't yet come to the definite conclusion that 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.' To this extent there is the safeguarding of the truth. To this extent one safeguards the truth.
(…)
"If a person likes something ... holds an unbroken tradition ... has something reasoned through analogy ... has something he agrees to, having pondered views, his statement, 'This is what I agree to, having pondered views,' safeguards the truth. But he doesn't yet come to the definite conclusion that 'Only this is true; anything else is worthless.' To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the safeguarding of the truth. To this extent one safeguards the truth. I describe this as the safeguarding of the truth. But it is not yet an awakening to the truth." (Majjhima Nikaya 95).0 -
Hm, I must say you pose an interesting question. One should look further to the question that Jesus was raising. He was teaching the Pharisees about who was their neighbour, or who the Mosaic Law was directed to when it said "Love your neighbour as yourself". Traditionally this had been confined to Jewry only, but Jesus challenged them by extending it to all mankind including those that many Jews despised.
Yes, Jesus was saying that it is possible for people with differing belief systems to assist and help each other in loving nature. However at the same time I believe that the Holy Spirit which was given to us through the teachings of Christ and His Apostles enables us to carry on with good deeds through God's power. This is the stance of Pauline theology really. We are made righteous no matter who we are to God through faith in Him, by the faith in Him we are compelled by the Holy Spirit to carry out good deeds in His name. This is how it has been for me by experience also. Perhaps other people believe other things...
Hmm, I don't see this really as "safeguarding" as such. I do not feel compelled to force my beliefs on anyone. If anyone shows an interest in my religion I will answer them, and ask them about how they feel about it among other things. However apart from that I feel Christianity has rather stable roots in the world and particularly in Ireland at the minute. By no means do I suggest that I know it all, but of what little I do know of God, I have been satisfied spiritually by it, and hopefully I will come to know Him more through further reflection. It's not an issue of and us versus them attitude for me, we are all one under Christ Jesus.0 -
Thanks for your kind answer Asia , and sorry that it has taken me so long answering your post. I have been pondering about it, not beeing quite sure what are my own views about this.Because Buddhism requires total surrender of the ego. You did your best and you learned what you were meant to learn from the situation. Once you had learned the lesson, you no longer required the situation, so it resolved itself.
Maybe this is true. It makes sense. Yet I usually don't really know what I have learned. Only that I'm left with the feeling that the process of both struggeling with all my might and giving up when I see I can't fix things seems to be very valuable in some strange way. Maybe it has something to do with acceptance - accepting the initial resistance in me about the situation as well as the "giving up"... I don't know if this makes sense.As I said before, Buddhism is gentle and compassionate, it is also hard and sever. We must kill our own ego, only through this path can things turn out right.
I don't know about killing the ego. To me it seems like an aggressive approach - too aggressive for me, at least.
Right now I feel like treating poor ego with compassion, it is already so full of self-hatred and self judgement which can easily turn to hatred or at least judgment of others.
Maybe my way (as I see it right now) would be more a way of relaxing and even accepting the ego (sometimes that would even mean accepting that the ego can't accept the ego, if you see what I mean). Because, as I see it, even if I like it or not ego is part of what is right now.Any time we have problems we normally deal with them from the "I" perspective. The key to success is to also look at them through the "You" perspective.
The "you" perspective seems very important if we want to have real contact with other people, and I think we all - on some level - long for that.
I am happy that you say that it's important "to also look at them through the "You" perspective", since I feel a need for the "I" perspective as well, a need to be taken seriously by myself perhaps ...;)
(You see, I remember a time where I tried always letting other peoples needs come before my own because that was part of my ideology at that time and I didn't think my own needs were important - it made me ill, nervous and depressed, and I felt it made my contact with others less genuine and spontaneous and I kind of "dried out" in a way that I don't do when I have learned to listen to my own needs.)
Maybe there is also some level of contact even beyond "you" and "I"?Only when we can see the situation from the other persons perspective can we effect change
You're probably right. I would say, when we make real contact from the heart, real understanding, change will take place by itself.0 -
Thanks for your answer J. It is very interesting to learn about the way you are thinking. Than you!One should look further to the question that Jesus was raising. He was teaching the Pharisees about who was their neighbour, or who the Mosaic Law was directed to when it said "Love your neighbour as yourself". Traditionally this had been confined to Jewry only, but Jesus challenged them by extending it to all mankind including those that many Jews despised.
Interesting. Love your neighbour as yourself - does this perhaps also mean "see yourself in your neighbour"?We are made righteous no matter who we are to God through faith in Him
What does "faith in Him" mean to you? Is it a feeling of trust? Of some quality of Goodness perhaps? Of Meaning? Unity?Hmm, I don't see this really as "safeguarding" as such.
In my Norwegian translation it actually says "then you keep to the truth" instead of "To this extent one safeguards the truth".I do not feel compelled to force my beliefs on anyone.
That's a rare and admirable quality!I have been satisfied spiritually by it, and hopefully I will come to know Him more through further reflection. It's not an issue of and us versus them attitude for me, we are all one under Christ Jesus.
I am glad you have found something that works for you.:)
Have to run.
M.0 -
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The "you" perspective seems very important if we want to have real contact with other people, and I think we all - on some level - long for that.
I am happy that you say that it's important "to also look at them through the "You" perspective", since I feel a need for the "I" perspective as well, a need to be taken seriously by myself perhaps ...;)
(You see, I remember a time where I tried always letting other peoples needs come before my own because that was part of my ideology at that time and I didn't think my own needs were important - it made me ill, nervous and depressed, and I felt it made my contact with others less genuine and spontaneous and I kind of "dried out" in a way that I don't do when I have learned to listen to my own needs.)
Maybe there is also some level of contact even beyond "you" and "I"?
Hi Maitri!
Could the total loss of ego lead to a blinding of oneself to the "I" perspective, and possibly lead to the symptoms you list above? Is it possible, to look at (or through??) the "you" perspective to the point where doing good unto others overrules the need to do good for oneself?
Would it be considered a negative part of the ego to even ask that question?0
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