Actual bodily harm witnessed outside Cuba

padi89

randylonghorn wrote: »

Begs the question (to everyone, not just padi89) ... why are more complaints not put in to (a) club owner / managers (b) the Gardai? (I mean re: the kind of serious incident described above)

If people only complain on the internet, this kind of thing will continue.

Because the people usually witnessing such an incident will never be taken seriously if they have a drink taken, sad but true.
Drink can turn angels into monsters we all know that but its not a bouncers job to dish out beatings to people.

wet-paint

cornbb wrote: »

WTF sort of analogy is that? In the extremely unlikely event that this drunken asshole was saying something like that to the bouncers, they still had no right to gang up on him and kick the sh*t out of him while he was incapacitated on the ground, in the course of their duties. That would still just make them vigilante assholes with an inflated sense of self importance.

I'm just going for an extreme example to make you see my point that anyone can be pushed to the point of violence, and that maybe, just maybe, this guy did something to provoke the response, and maybe he isn't totally innocent. Odds are indeed that this level of violence indicated by the OP was too far, but the point I'm making is that personally I can see myself giving a guy a kicking while he's down if he deserves it.
The fact that these lads are bouncers could be beside the point, they could have been butchers or bakers or candle stick makers and this guy came up to them and started whatever started in this instance. Yer man might not have knocked this guy to the ground in his duties as a bouncer. In other words, if I saw a teacher or someone beating the sh1t out of some lad, I wouldn't automatically assume "he's going past his duties and responsibilities as a teacher."
Fcuk, I'm not making myself clear here, I'm confusing myself and I'd best respond tomorrow when a bit more clear headed.
@Randy, I've complained the manager of Central Park before, so long ago I forget what it was about, but I did see the same bouncer on the door two nights later same as always.
I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who's worked in this industry for a while fwiw.

wet-paint

padi89 wrote: »

Because the people usually witnessing such an incident will never be taken seriously if they have a drink taken, sad but true.

So true.

randylonghorn

padi89 wrote: »

Because the people usually witnessing such an incident will never be taken seriously if they have a drink taken, sad but true.

Not so sure ... if completely mouldy, yeah, I suppose. But if a few people formally report the same incident guards will have no choice but to deal.

Always the option of popping along the next day to the station for that matter.

padi89 wrote: »

Drink can turn angels into monsters we all know that but its not a bouncers job to dish out beatings to people.

Exactly. Oh, hell, I would turn a blind eye myself to a bouncer giving a kick up the arse to some drunken muppet who richly deserved it, even though they shouldn't really do it ... but some of the incidents described here are way more serious than that.

Realistically, if enough complaints go in (reasonable / realistic ones, not muppetry) even if charges are not brought bouncers will be let go ... apart from right and wrong, no club owner / manager needs constant hassle from customers / guards about his bouncers.

randylonghorn

wet-paint wrote: »

I'm just going for an extreme example to make you see my point that anyone can be pushed to the point of violence, and that maybe, just maybe, this guy did something to provoke the response, and maybe he isn't totally innocent.

Concept of "reasonable response"?

wet-paint wrote: »

Odds are indeed that this level of violence indicated by the OP was too far, but the point I'm making is that personally I can see myself giving a guy a kicking while he's down if he deserves it.

O_o

wet-paint wrote: »

Fcuk, I'm not making myself clear here, I'm confusing myself and I'd best respond tomorrow when a bit more clear headed.

Glad you realise it.

wet-paint wrote: »

@Randy, I've complained the manager of Central Park before, so long ago I forget what it was about, but I did see the same bouncer on the door two nights later same as always.

Oh, I doubt if one complaint to a manager will ever make much difference, unless it's very serious and well backed up. See my point above.

wet-paint wrote: »

I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who's worked in this industry for a while fwiw.

I really hope you don't mean as a bouncer, tbh!

Krieg

randylonghorn wrote: »

Begs the question (to everyone, not just padi89) ... why are more complaints not put in to (a) club owner / managers (b) the Gardai? (I mean re: the kind of serious incident described above)

If people only complain on the internet, this kind of thing will continue.

Very true


But I can imagine if I was the victim of security knocking the crap out of me for no reason, It would be difficult to argue my case, especially if I was drunk (Not necessarily completely plastered). Bouncers will back each other up on storys, so in the end Its my story vs 1/2/3+ security "professionals" or as authority would look at it - Drunk guy claims that he was attacked while security said he was abusive and violent. If I was really in this unfortunate circumstance, I would truly hope that security cameras were in operation or there was some people willing to back me up on the story.

With regard to being a witness to such incident. I guess I wouldnt file a complaint for the simple reason of 'Better mind my own business'/'Best not get involved' and I think thats true for most people. That was in the past, if I was witness to such act now, I would def made it known to the gardai as I think its only getting worse.

I thought the introduction of the Security pass was to cut down on this sort of thing?

cornbb

wet-paint wrote: »

Odds are indeed that this level of violence indicated by the OP was too far, but the point I'm making is that personally I can see myself giving a guy a kicking while he's down if he deserves it.

:eek: It was way too far, no matter how you try to excuse it or no matter what sort of fantastic hypothetical scenarios you come up with.

The fact that these lads are bouncers could be beside the point, they could have been butchers or bakers or candle stick makers and this guy came up to them and started whatever started in this instance. Yer man might not have knocked this guy to the ground in his duties as a bouncer. In other words, if I saw a teacher or someone beating the sh1t out of some lad, I wouldn't automatically assume "he's going past his duties and responsibilities as a teacher."

The fact that they are bouncers makes the situation even worse, their "profession" puts them in a position which is supposed to look out for people's well-being by stopping trouble etc. As Asbad said there, their position as employees of the club would make it very hard to make a complaint against them stick. Maybe thats why they get away with it all.

I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who's worked in this industry for a while fwiw.

Maybe that explains your twisted sense of morals on the situation. You're not the best ambassador for the bouncer profession, tbh.

randylonghorn

Asbad wrote: »

I thought the introduction of the Security pass was to cut down on this sort of thing?

That's the theory. However, if everyone passes on the other street and pretends not to see, that gives carte blanche to those who will abuse their position, and any licensing system becomes irrelevant if abuses don't get reported.

I do want to stress that I am not on any kind of an anti-bouncer-for-the-sake-of-it rant here ... I know a lot of good bouncers, and I would freely admit that it's not an easy job, and that it has become more difficult in recent years. However, all bouncers need to be accountable for their actions, and the few bad apples in the barrel should not be tolerated. Apart from anything else, their behaviour inevitably makes it more difficult for the decent ones, in that they then end up with loads of customers who have come to see bouncers as "the enemy" because of the actions of a few.

Lockstep

wet-paint wrote: »

I'm just going for an extreme example to make you see my point that anyone can be pushed to the point of violence, and that maybe, just maybe, this guy did something to provoke the response, and maybe he isn't totally innocent. Odds are indeed that this level of violence indicated by the OP was too far, but the point I'm making is that personally I can see myself giving a guy a kicking while he's down if he deserves it.
The fact that these lads are bouncers could be beside the point, they could have been butchers or bakers or candle stick makers and this guy came up to them and started whatever started in this instance. Yer man might not have knocked this guy to the ground in his duties as a bouncer. In other words, if I saw a teacher or someone beating the sh1t out of some lad, I wouldn't automatically assume "he's going past his duties and responsibilities as a teacher."
Fcuk, I'm not making myself clear here, I'm confusing myself and I'd best respond tomorrow when a bit more clear headed.
@Randy, I've complained the manager of Central Park before, so long ago I forget what it was about, but I did see the same bouncer on the door two nights later same as always.
I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of someone who's worked in this industry for a while fwiw.

The fact is mate, we're just ordinary joes for the most part, but when we act violent in our professional capacity, we're in trouble. These men are put there for the well being of the patrons, once they overstep the mark, they are violating their job. Oh I know they are as human as everyone else but if a cop uses excessive force in uniform or a teacher bates one of his students it's wrong. They are in a position of authority and are abusing it. A teacher is supposed to teach students, if he is attacked by a student and he fights back, his career is basically over (Self Defence Manual, Geoff Thompson) Bouncers are put there for a main reason, if they overstep it, they're violating their job.

cL0h

I'm back again. When I started this thread I was starting an assignment I was supposed to have in for Sunday. I was at it until late Sunday night and was wrecked Monday after a long day at work and today it was starting to be a distant memory. Then I checked back here and there's a whole heap of debate goin on. So I didn't report the incident (again) One poster commented that people don't take drunk people seriously well I had two drinks and my gf had one that night but we still weren't taken seriously.
I read a lot of the comments and just want to clear up my initial lack of detail regarding what the guy did. I said maybe he swung at one of the guys because I didn't see him do it. I saw him shouting at the bouncer and squaring up to him much like a small child might square up to a parent if they were being bold. He did not "pull.. a screwdriver or a knife or a bloody scud missile." or anything even close. And I have every right to judge a reaction. We are living in a democracy after all. You know... where people don't get held down and beatten and dragged off and not seen again.
Oh wait?
I'm going to call Mill St garda station tomorrow.

ZorbaTehZ

cL0h wrote: »

I'm going to call Mill St garda station tomorrow.

5 days late. Assignment or not, it would take at most an hour to make a statement. Should have been done Saturday morning.

Redhairedguy

This kind of thing is a public minefield.

Malice

cL0h wrote: »

I then witnessed the other, a tall Polish bouncer viciously knee him into the spine twice.

How do you know the bouncer was Polish?

cornbb

Did you go the the guards OP, any update on this?

Robbo

malice_ wrote: »

How do you know the bouncer was Polish?

I'm pretty sure that anything negative that happens in Galway can be blamed on a former Iron Curtain resident.

Everything from cryptosporidium to those poxy metal bumps at the ped crosssings in Eyre Square.

leninbenjamin

Robbo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that anything negative that happens in Galway can be blamed on a former Iron Curtain resident.

Everything from cryptosporidium to those poxy metal bumps at the ped crosssings in Eyre Square.

no the cryptosporidium is the farmers. and those metal bumps are actually armoured doorways that lead into the fairy-world. they are actually secretly preparing a raid on Galway that will be unleashed three days from tomorrow.

Malice

Robbo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure that anything negative that happens in Galway can be blamed on a former Iron Curtain resident.

Everything from cryptosporidium to those poxy metal bumps at the ped crosssings in Eyre Square.

Definitely! And how about the slippery paving slabs used in the aforementioned Eyre Square?
Coming over here taking jobs from honest Irish bouncers. Pah!

MaxFlower

cornbb wrote: »

Did you go the the guards OP, any update on this?

C'mon OP. Whats the latest.

Please don't let this be another case of moaning to friends and on public forums but not actually telling the people who are paid to deal with this type of thing.

RealJohn

Have to back Wet Paint up here. The Cuba doorstaff are almost all decent guys and would not attack someone unprovoked.

Of course, as usual, everyone is assuming that the person who was drinking (two drinks he says) who didn't notice what sparked the whole incident still saw everything he described clearly enough to be able to tell the difference between a knee to the spine from a knee to the kidney (also bad) from a knee to the shoulder or the arse in the heat of the moment. Not only this but he was also so clear-headed that he could identify the nationality of one of the doormen just by looking at him. I have to say, I'm impressed.

I have to say, I'm on Wet Paint's side on everything he's said here, though he hasn't made his points very well. The guys in Cuba are not easily provoked and this whole story (and most of the other horror stories here) sounds exaggerated at best.

What did the Gardaí say when you called them OP?

oneofakind32

padraig71 wrote: »

Are you for real? OK, selling many types of recreational drugs is illegal (not booze, obviously) - the arguable hypocrisy and stupidity of this booming industry's being left in the hands of organised criminals is a can of worms that may be slightly off topic here - but do you really believe that bouncers or other vigilantes should 'punish' criminals by violence rather than the guards and the legal system applying due process of law? I suppose you would you like to see IRA fascists knee-capping kids for selling their mates hash too?! What other crimes do you think should be handled in this way?

here here

A bouncer has no excuse to punch/kick anyone, he/ she should be sufficiently trained to diffuse the situation verbally and then then if necessary use force to remove the person and that dosnt involve striking the person

wet-paint

Hah, so this is me retracting all that **** I said, basically talking out my ass.
Mea culpa.

Panthro

fair play to you if u make a statement.
the bouncers outside cuba are ridiculous, i was outside there on nite as my friend smoked, and i witnessed a quick scuffle, and two lads were surrounded by bouncers.they tried running away, and the BOUNCERS RAN DOWN THE STREET AFTER THEM.about as professional as a gang of thugs they are.

Fracture

papagormo wrote: »

fair play to you if u make a statement.
the bouncers outside cuba are ridiculous, i was outside there on nite as my friend smoked, and i witnessed a quick scuffle, and two lads were surrounded by bouncers.they tried running away, and the BOUNCERS RAN DOWN THE STREET AFTER THEM.about as professional as a gang of thugs they are.

Your an idiot.

Jesus i could say so so so much more but im tired and going to bed.

Malice

papagormo wrote: »

fair play to you if u make a statement.
the bouncers outside cuba are ridiculous, i was outside there on nite as my friend smoked, and i witnessed a quick scuffle, and two lads were surrounded by bouncers.they tried running away, and the BOUNCERS RAN DOWN THE STREET AFTER THEM.about as professional as a gang of thugs they are.

Interesting use of language there! You have implied that the bouncers were acting like thugs by chasing two guys. Isn't it possible that the two guys had just been caught dealing drugs or stealing jackets or phones and the bouncers RAN DOWN THE STREET AFTER THEM to ensure that they would be delivered into the hands of the Gardai? How would you feel if your mobile phone had just been lifted and when you spoke to the bouncer they told you they couldn't do anything because they culprits are half way down the street and not on the premises any more? I'm not sure how that makes them ridiculous.

wet-paint

Fracture wrote: »

Your an idiot.

Jesus i could say so so so much more but im tired and going to bed.

Was wondering when you'd make an appearance here, tbh.;)

mark.leonard

Having worked as a doorman in Cuba and given that I train with a few of the lads up there I can honestly say that they are not meatheads or power trippers or violent folks. They do a good job up there and run a tight ship. Its very easy for a casual punter to believe he sees something and that he has all the information, the reality is that it is very unlikely that it is so. If you really want to see how things are on the door, get on one and come back on here after a week and see how your perspective has changed. Its not an easy job that these guys do and they do it well.

cornbb

mark.leonard wrote: »

Having worked as a doorman in Cuba and given that I train with a few of the lads up there I can honestly say that they are not meatheads or power trippers or violent folks. They do a good job up there and run a tight ship. Its very easy for a casual punter to believe he sees something and that he has all the information, the reality is that it is very unlikely that it is so. If you really want to see how things are on the door, get on one and come back on here after a week and see how your perspective has changed. Its not an easy job that these guys do and they do it well.

If you see a bouncer kneeing a guy in the spine while he's curled up in a ball on the ground you don't need any other information tbh, while I appreciate that it might be a challenging job sometimes, there's no background information that could possibly excuse such behaviour from a doorman.

JohnCleary

mark.leonard wrote: »

Having worked as a doorman in Cuba and given that I train with a few of the lads up there I can honestly say that they are not meatheads or power trippers or violent folks. They do a good job up there and run a tight ship. Its very easy for a casual punter to believe he sees something and that he has all the information, the reality is that it is very unlikely that it is so. If you really want to see how things are on the door, get on one and come back on here after a week and see how your perspective has changed. Its not an easy job that these guys do and they do it well.

Or the time my GF was in Cuba and got glass in the side of her foot (She was wearing heels), so they threw her out :mad: Had to get in a taxi myself with her and bring her to casualty as i'd have felt a right eejit ringing an ambulance.

Good job me 4rse, probably the most unprofessional act i've seen by a bouncer

Fracture

cornbb wrote: »

If you see a bouncer kneeing a guy in the spine while he's curled up in a ball on the ground you don't need any other information tbh, while I appreciate that it might be a challenging job sometimes, there's no background information that could possibly excuse such behaviour from a doorman.

What if that person headbutted you, then punched you and then punched the bouncer beside you? Then heckeled you for half an hour and went to punch you again.
Or if that person was thrown out in the first place for say....punching a few lads inside then fliping a table full of glasses? just for example.

JohnCleary wrote:

Or the time my GF was in Cuba and got glass in the side of her foot (She was wearing heels), so they threw her out Had to get in a taxi myself with her and bring her to casualty as i'd have felt a right eejit ringing an ambulance.

Good job me 4rse, probably the most unprofessional act i've seen by a bouncer

Sounds believeable (i know my spelling isnt great )

randylonghorn

Fracture wrote: »

What if that person headbutted you, then punched you and then punched the bouncer beside you? Then heckeled you for half an hour and went to punch you again.

Then while he was hanging around heckling you, the Gardai should have been called and that guy arrested for assault.

Bouncers have no right to hand out "punishment" ... they are not guards, let alone judge, jury and executioner all rolled up in one neat package.

Is that too difficult a concept to understand?