Keano OOUUTTT!

Roar

I'm sure sunderland's legions of irish fans must be devestated, it's looking more and more like the drop every week.

Staunton for sunderland!

PHB

Bit of an over-reaction. Certainly some of the players aren't good enough, but I still think they'll stay up. They'll get some decent players in at the January break (Evans from United being one of them), and with Jones scoring the way he is, I think they'll stay safe. Decent first season, and then something to build on.

Sizzler

I see where you are coming from but I dont think Keano would get fired even if Sunderland didnt pick up another point for the rest of the season.

Hopefully they can get out of this run. Thankfully Derby and Wigan are worse so its just a case of getting away from the other contenders for the drop.

Xavi6

Ha ha what happened to 'Keano for Ireland' and 'Keano the next Fergie'? Lol load of my b*llox. He's a sham, just like his team.

Barlow07

Roar wrote: »

I'm sure sunderland's legions of irish fans must be devestated, it's looking more and more like the drop every week.

Staunton for sunderland!

Kneejerk reaction here. I cant see them staying up this season, still have some poor players who are not good enough for this level. I was shocked by the result, but Goodison is a tough place to go now of days i think for any team.

Roar

decent players? how much money has keane squandered on bringing in players who wouldnt be good enough for my 7-a-side team? he is completely incapable of recognising talented players, this is obvious from the bulk of his signings.

it's not a half decent centre half (evans) that sunderland need, it's a change at the top. Does Niall have the cojones to do what's right for the club?

PHB

I'd still love Keano as Irish manager. I don't think many people realy believe Sunderland are gona go down. If he stays up, the season is a success. People are taking too much from one result.

As for the signings jib, that's just utterly utterly stupid. Gordan and Jones would be prime examples of how stupid that statement is.

Sizzler

Barlow07 wrote: »

Goodison is a tough place to go now of days i think for any team.

Except for : Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea & Arsenal

Pigman II

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ha ha what happened to 'Keano for Ireland' and 'Keano the next Fergie'? Lol load of my b*llox. He's a sham, just like his team.

Well said. Only reason I could think of wanting him to succeed is at least it'd keep him away from the Ireland setup.

KdjaCL

19/09/07 Jack Pelter Unattached Free
29/08/07 Danny Higginbotham Stoke £2.5m
29/08/07 Kenwyne Jones Soton £6m
29/08/07 Ian Harte Levante Free
24/08/07 Andy Cole Unattached Free
09/08/07 Cork Undisc.
08/08/07 Craig Gordon Hearts £9m
26/07/07 Paul McShane West Brom £2.5m
17/07/07 Dickson Etuhu Norwich £1.5m
17/07/07 Kieran Richardson Man United Undisc.
13/07/07 Michael Chopra Cardiff £5m
27/06/07 Russell Anderson Aberdeen £1m
11/06/07 Greg Halford Reading £3m


Roar i didnt edit that, seriously its like that

http://www.4thegame.com/club/sunderland-fc/

PHB you picked 2 from that list, i cant find the ones from last xmas.

kdjac

PHB

I maintain that Richardson is a good signing. He kept West Brom up, and if he hadn't been injuried, I think he would have found his feet.

Chopra also looks like he can hack it at this level.
As such, I don't think he's wasted money on those players, which account for 22 of the 32 million he's spent. They are still 18th in the league on 10 points. Reading are 12th with 13 points. That entire area is still wide wide open. They've shown they can get points against those bottom eight, and as such, I think they will stay up.

Pigman II

KdjaCL wrote: »

09/08/07 Cork Undisc.

Why did he buy Cork? Waste of money. I've been there and it's rubbish.

Sizzler

KdjaCL wrote: »

19/09/07 Jack Pelter Unattached Free
29/08/07 Danny Higginbotham Stoke £2.5m
29/08/07 Kenwyne Jones Soton £6m
29/08/07 Ian Harte Levante Free
24/08/07 Andy Cole Unattached Free
09/08/07 Cork Undisc.
08/08/07 Craig Gordon Hearts £9m
26/07/07 Paul McShane West Brom £2.5m
17/07/07 Dickson Etuhu Norwich £1.5m
17/07/07 Kieran Richardson Man United Undisc.
13/07/07 Michael Chopra Cardiff £5m
27/06/07 Russell Anderson Aberdeen £1m
11/06/07 Greg Halford Reading £3m

Greg Halford- Russell Anderson - Fcuking wastes of money. Theres an argument for the others but the prices he paid is questionable, Chopra £5m FFS :eek:

PHB

They are the prices everybody was paying. There was lots of new money in the transfer market last season, and everybodys prices were inflated. Nugent and Kamara for 6 come to mind.

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

I maintain that Richardson is a good signing. He kept West Brom up, and if he hadn't been injuried, I think he would have found his feet.

Chopra also looks like he can hack it at this level.
As such, I don't think he's wasted money on those players, which account for 22 of the 32 million he's spent. They are still 18th in the league on 10 points. Reading are 12th with 13 points. That entire area is still wide wide open. They've shown they can get points against those bottom eight, and as such, I think they will stay up.

Would you be defending him if he wasn't ex United? What I mean is that a lot of people have blinkers on when it comes to Keane. He;s in the exact same position as Gareth Southgate - a young ex pro cutting his teeth at the highest level and failing miserably. Southgate gets slated on a weekly basis. What's the difference?

~Rebel~

Its very harsh to have stuff like this, when they've been missing the 2 players that stop them from being sloggers and battlers and turn them into an actual unit with threat in Edwards and Richardson. Missing another of their best players Whitehead for a good while was a big blow as well.

I think the way forward for them is a 5 man midfield with Edwards and Richardson on the wings and Jones up top on his own, with the other 2 mentioned given freedom to push forward as well.
Evans joining should add an extra bit of stability at the back and Whitehead + 2 of Leadbitter, Yorke and Miller in central midfield should be enough to battle most teams.


Xavi; A young manager cutting his teeth and failing miserably? He won the league last year ffs!

Sizzler

PHB wrote: »

They are the prices everybody was paying. There was lots of new money in the transfer market last season, and everybodys prices were inflated. Nugent and Kamara for 6 come to mind.

Eh no they werent. Name another team that would have came in and bought those players for those prices

My bollix.

Anderson £1m. Will NEVER get that money back. Halford couldnt even get near the bench for Reading last season, his debut resulted in a 3 nil hammering at LUTON FFS and he got sent off. Nice one Greg.

Chopra would never have been sold to any other team for that money....Ridsdale still has it

PHB

That's just bull****.
He took over Sunderland at the bottom of the championship. He got them promoted. Southgate did none of that.
That's the difference.
Keane has been in charge for nearly a year now, and has gotten them into the premiership, and imo looks like he'll keep them there. He's 36 and still learning.

Wow Sizzler, a manager made a bad signing. Stop the ****ing presses. He has made more good signings than bad signings and his team is beginning to take shape.

Xavi6

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Xavi; A young manager cutting his teeth and failing miserably? He won the league last year ffs!

He won the Championship. Whoop dee f*cking doo. He had a big budget. The real key is to keep a team in the Premiership after promotion. At that he is currently failing and that is the benchmark on which he will be judged.

PHB

Will be judged? Seems to me you've judged him already.

He had a big budget? His net spend last year was 4 million. Derby's was 9.
He took them from bottom to top. That's no small achievement.

CrowdedHouse

Roar wrote: »

I'm sure sunderland's legions of irish fans must be devestated,

What legions of fans ? - I don't know a single Sunderland supporter

Xavi6

PHB wrote: »

Will be judged? Seems to me you've judged him already.

He had a big budget? His net spend last year was 4 million. Derby's was 9.
He took them from bottom to top. That's no small achievement.

Ah now come on. You know as well as I do that the Championship is the tightest league around and very few points seperate the lower half teams from those at the top. Yes they did ok to win it but he hasn't brought in good players, hence the sh1te we saw today.

~Rebel~

Xavi6 wrote: »

He won the Championship. Whoop dee f*cking doo. He had a big budget. The real key is to keep a team in the Premiership after promotion. At that he is currently failing and that is the benchmark on which he will be judged.

You said he was a young manager cutting his teeth and failing miserably.

Im saying winning the league isn't IMO a sign of failing miserably. (EDIT - Its also something which is better then "did ok")

you seem to have some sort of personal issues with the guy or something. Thats not really relevent to any of this. We'll see if he's in the premiership next season in 6months time, until then looking at what he HAS achieved, its a bit silly to say he's failed miserably.

The first half of your comment is quite correct, he IS a young manager cutting his teeth. And as such, he'll make mistakes, the question is whether he learns from them. He's already admitted he was naive in the transfer market last summer and its something he's learned a lot from. We'll see if this is true come January.

Even with that, were I a Sunderland fan, I'd still be happy enough with the decent players he's added, particularly Jones, Gordan, McShane and Edwards, and be pretty optimistic about Richardson considering what he did in the exact same circumstances with West Brom.

Sizzler

PHB wrote: »

Wow Sizzler, a manager made a bad signing. Stop the ****ing presses. He has made more good signings than bad signings and his team is beginning to take shape.

LOL Its taking shape alright, today was almost his 1st choice and look what happened :eek:

Could be worse, he could have signed Dirk Kuyt in the summer

Xavi6

~Rebel~ wrote: »

you seem to have some sort of personal issues with the guy or something.

Yep. I hate him.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Thats not really relevent to any of this. We'll see if he's in the premiership next season in 6months time, until then looking at what he HAS achieved, its a bit silly to say he's failed miserably.

Ok what has he achieved? Promotion. the same Watford, Derby, Swindon etc have done in the Premiership era and gone straight back down. Achievements in the Championship count for nothign when you're in with the big boys.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Even with that, were I a Sunderland fan, I'd still be happy enough with the decent players he's added, particularly Jones, Gordan, McShane and Edwards, and be pretty optimistic about Richardson considering what he did in the exact same circumstances with West Brom.

I'm sorry but McShane is crap. He's living off one good game for Ireland. He's an average Championship defender and his failings have been brought to the fore in the last few games. But like Keane and Richardson he's ex United so I expect him to be defended.

[Jackass]

i think with the exception of Gordon, although over priced and mcshane his signings have been poor and the latter is probably the only bargain of the lot...still think they'll stay up and he's far from a sham...he took over a relegation battling championship side and is in the premiership one year on and imo will keep them up when so many fail to do that....it will take maybe 5 years plus but i think he'll land a big job, possibly utd, and be one of the best in the business..if any player can make the conversion from world class player to world class manager its him

Bungalow Bill

Oh please, enough of the knee jerk reactions.
Every team like sunderland suffers a freak result like this every now and again.
Today Whitehead had his first game back, carlos edwards his second game back, Andy Cole his debut, yorke his first game back, and harte is still new to the team.
Give them a break, if they beat Derby next week and they are out of trouble again.
Sunderland's season isn't going to be defined by losing away to a top team like Everton who are in great form.
Once everyone is fit and well, they will definitely start to pick up a lot of points at home against the likes of middlesbrough, brum, derby, wigan, reading etc.

People have to remember that up until last week, Sunderland were missing almost their entire first choice midfield in Edwards, Richardson and Whitehead.

Melion

Where is all this talk of them being a relegation battling team last year? They had one of the strongest squads in the division(with the exception of WBA), the only reason they were bottom last year was because Quinn isnt a manager and couldnt do the job.

Xavi6

Bungalow Bill wrote: »

Oh please, enough of the knee jerk reactions.
People have to remember that up until last week, Sunderland were missing almost their entire first choice midfield in Edwards, Richardson and Whitehead.

Emmm Whitehead isn't deemed good enough for their midfield, hence his inclusion at right back at the start of the season. Class act though and adds loads to their survival chances :rolleyes:

Come on Derby next week.

~Rebel~

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ok what has he achieved? Promotion. the same Watford, Derby, Swindon etc have done in the Premiership era and gone straight back down. Achievements in the Championship count for nothign when you're in with the big boys.

No, He WON the league, as in came First. Got a trophy and everything. The teams you mentioned scraped through in the playoff's. i.e the difference between winning the premiership and qualifying for the champions league.

Look nobody is saying he's an amazing manager, the future Ferguson or anything, but saying he's failing miserably and crap etc is just being petty and silly. IMO winning a league, regardless of that league, for a manager just coming into his first job, starting in the relegation zone is impressive. Maybe you dont think so, but id imagine most would.


<edit> ? Whitehead is a quality player. The only really decent player in the McCarthy era. Rafa held an interest in him when Sunderland went down.

Xavi6

~Rebel~ wrote: »

No, He WON the league, as in came First. Got a trophy and everything. The teams you mentioned scraped through in the playoff's. i.e the difference between winning the premiership and qualifying for the champions league.

So if they had of come second you wouldn't be arguing? Promotion is promotion from the Championship whether it's first or throught the playoffs. It's what comes next that's important i.e building a good team. He hasn't done it.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Look nobody is saying he's an amazing manager, the future Ferguson or anything,

A lot of people have said that, the same way they say he should be Ireland manager.

Bungalow Bill

Xavi6 wrote: »

Emmm Whitehead isn't deemed good enough for their midfield, hence his inclusion at right back at the start of the season. Class act though and adds loads to their survival chances :rolleyes:

Come on Derby next week.

You have absolutley no idea what you are talking about.

Dean Whitehead is the club captain and was instrumental is the promotion last year. He is one of the few survivors from the last time they were in the premiership, and as someone mentioned, he is a renowned qulaity player.

He was an emergency right back given that nosworthy was injured last week, and halford has something of a confidence problem at the moment.

~Rebel~

Xavi6 wrote: »

So if they had of come second you wouldn't be arguing? Promotion is promotion from the Championship whether it's first or throught the playoffs. It's what comes next that's important i.e building a good team. He hasn't done it.

?? In your previous post you had said "what has he achieved?" And i answered it by saying he didn't JUST get promotion, he won. Winning is obviously better then second, or third, or fourth.

A lot of people have said that, the same way they say he should be Ireland manager.

I meant in this argument. (A lot of people say stupid things, im sure retarded arguments have been made on this topic, just not in this debate here, so not relevent thankfully) The people defending have just said "well he did well last year, made some mistakes but has plenty of time to learn, has plenty of time to turn it around and has a very decent chance of staying up". Thats about the size of it, and i agree with all of it.

eirebhoy

Roar wrote: »

I'm sure sunderland's legions of irish fans must be devestated

Who are these people? I don't seem to meet many of them.

As for McShane, he'll be a class act imo. Needs an organiser beside him atm like the vast majority of 21 year old centre halves.

Bounty Hunter

Gordon is a very good goalkeeper, Jones is a good target man upfront who is still young and can improve, They have two good wingers (for that half of the table) in Richardsson and Edwards, McShane is a good defender and it seems he will soon be joined by uniteds Evans.

They are as good as the other teams that like Sunderland knew before the season started would be fighting relegation i.e Wigan, Boro, Derby, Birmingham, Fulham etc although there is a big gap in standards between these teams and the rest of the premiership.

Despite him being backed, winning the championship was a decent achievement for Keane and if Quinn and Co. continue to back him in January which they have already indicated they would then he might just go one better and establish the club as a premiership side. They need to improve the centre of midfield IMO but i think they will survive even if its a 4th last finish on the final day (im sure Roy would take that now).

to be Relegated: Derby, Wigan and Boro

genericgoon

And there I was thinking this was going to be a joke topic, how disappointing to find all this hate and bickering. All I can add is judge him on where Sunderland end the year as the bottom half is going to stay piled up for a while yet and any number of teams could end up relegated

Galvasean

He will be judged at seasons end. If Sunderland are relegated he will probably get the sack. if not, he's a hero. Some people here seem to think staying up in the Premiership is an easy task. Lets wait and see.

KdjaCL

Galvasean wrote: »

He will be judged at seasons end. If Sunderland are relegated he will probably get the sack. if not, he's a hero. Some people here seem to think staying up in the Premiership is an easy task. Lets wait and see.

gaurantee you if Derby and brum had 30 million to stay up they would find it a piece of piss as they have good managers, bruce bought kapo and he single handedly gonna keep them up, Derby are ****ed tho.


kdjac

PHB

Really? You guarantee it. Gee that's great. Birmingham's squad was much much much better than Sunderlands squad and still is. Why? Cause Bruce has been around for a while and has gotten the squad he put together. Keane is still doing this.

This hatred people have for him is actually so pathetic its laughable.

StickyMcGinty

its not the fact that sunderland are capable of holding their own thats gonna keep them up this season... its that theres much worse in the premiership, namely Derby, Wigan and boro.

keane made a complete hash of his summer spending. i dont like keane but its pretty obvious that he has some talent as a manager, but until he works out a way to better spend his money he's gonna struggle, he can only manage what he has in his squad.

KdjaCL

PHB wrote: »

Really? You guarantee it. Gee that's great. Birmingham's squad was much much much better than Sunderlands squad and still is. Why? Cause Bruce has been around for a while and has gotten the squad he put together. Keane is still doing this.

This hatred people have for him is actually so pathetic its laughable.

brum lost their best 2 players last xmas irc?

the love some people have for him actually pathetic, seriously he doesnt play for your club or your country as he chose not too


kdjac

Guy:Incognito

KdjaCL wrote: »

seriously he doesnt play for your club or your country as he chose not too


kdjac

Bit fat yawn, are we still going on about this? There was an arguement which resulted in him not playing for a particular manager. He played for the next manager. Has happened with load sof players and for lesser reasons.

He never played for my club (would love if he had) and I really like the guy.

The anti-keane agenda of some people is equally pathetic.

~Rebel~

Stekelly wrote: »

Bit fat yawn, are we still going on about this? There was an arguement which resulted in him not playing for a particular manager. He played for the next manager. Has happened with load sof players and for lesser reasons.

He never played for my club (would love if he had) and I really like the guy.

The anti-keane agenda of some people is equally pathetic.

I agree.

And more importantly, its not important. Personal opinions of the guy dont really matter, the only question is - How has he done in his first management position so far?

IMO he's done well, went into a tough situation, a lot of bad results already in the league under Quinn, off the back of crashing out of the premiership in spectacularly bad fashion, started his tenure effectively on minus points and managed to get the team clawing their way up the table to win the league. Had a tough time this year, which is always the case with promoted teams (with the odd exception like wigan and reading who usually get a second season shock), but all in all not that bad. Still has a very very good chance of staying up and whether you like him or not, that could only be seen as a a hugely successful 2 years. To be honest id say the club would be reasonably happy with just still being in the frame come april considering they hadn't even expected to get up to the premiership so soon.

delta_bravo

Just wanted to add after watching the game that Mc Shane was absolutely dire. He was at complete fault for at least 3 or 4 of the goals and should be dropped

Pigman II

eirebhoy wrote: »

As for McShane, he'll be a class act imo. Needs an organiser beside him atm like the vast majority of 21 year old centre halves.

Why can't he be the organizer if he's on the way to being such a class act?

Seemed to be at fault for most of Evertons goals today. Funny watching his big ginger head bobbing around like a brainless eejit today. Meanwhile Andy O'Brien helps his team to a clean sheet against United.

Mr.Nice Guy

Roar wrote: »

it's not a half decent centre half (evans) that sunderland need, it's a change at the top. Does Niall have the cojones to do what's right for the club?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks for the laugh.

There's a long way to go yet matey.

Gavin "shels"

Roar wrote: »

I'm sure sunderland's legions of irish fans must be devestated, it's looking more and more like the drop every week.

Staunton for sunderland!

Only "Irish" football fans come out with this stuff, classic. Fickle Fickle Fickle.:rolleyes:

MrJoeSoap

Gavin shels wrote: »

Only "Irish" football fans come out with this stuff, classic. Fickle Fickle Fickle.:rolleyes:

Is that all you ever post about?

Jonny Arson

jury is out on Keane for me

imo Sunderland have one of the weakest squads in terms of ability in the Premiership and this should not have been the case when you were given a chequebook of £30+ million.... Higginbotham, Halford, McShane (yes, he is shockingly overrrated), Chopra, Etuhu are not Premiership players and were very questionable signings from day one. he made too many signings, the continuity of last seasons very decent squad is smashed when you sign 12 new players, he would have been better off adding 5 or 6 really quality signings instead of some of the mediocrity he brought in. aside from Gordon, Jones and Richardson i fail to see where they are a significantly improved team from last season.

of course he did well to get them promoted last season, with a chequebook or not promotion is an achievement in itself and required good management, however football is cutthroat and with that level of money spent Sunderland should not be comtemplating the word 'relegation' this season. ok with so many new players it may take longer than you would imagine to gel but he needs to turn them around very soon or the 'chequebook manager' jibes may very well become justified.

Prowetod

PHB wrote: »

This hatred people have for him is actually so pathetic its laughable.

Exactly!

Keane has loads of time left to try and prove himself as a manager in the premiership.

All those peolpe complaining about whatever should came down its only a stupid game!

Jonny Arson

eoccork wrote: »

Exactly!

Keane has loads of time left to try and prove himself as a manager in the premiership.

All those peolpe complaining about whatever should came down its only a stupid game!

its a football discussion forum, people are allowed to give their opinions on whether he's doing a good job or not, that's what forums are for. i'm a Keane fan but it seems some of his fans are way too sensitive to any constructive criticism about the guy