Things that tick you off (but are too afraid to admit)

ojewriej

ScumLord wrote: »

What beginning to tick me off more and more these days is the west holier than tho attitude towards Muslims. We look down our noses at them for being religious over capitalistic individualists.

We have no right to tell them how to live and trying to enforce our beliefs on them isn't going to encourage them to change one bit. We might not like the way they run there countries but they're fully entitled to run it how they see fit.

I'm not so sure about that. I think we should be saying something when a girl is being sentenced to 200 lashes because she was in a car with a fella. And they were both gangraped. Pretending that nothing happened is not right here. Fair enough about not telling them how to run their country, but stopping trading with them perhaps would be an option.

ScumLord

ojewriej wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. I think we should be saying something when a girl is being sentenced to 200 lashes because she was in a car with a fella. And they were both gangraped. Pretending that nothing happened is not right here. Fair enough about not telling them how to run their country, but stopping trading with them perhaps would be an option.

That's fair enough but at the end of the day those people don't absolutely have to live in those countries if they don't want to and allot do like they're lifestyles.

Wacker

ScumLord wrote: »

We have no right to tell them how to live and trying to enforce our beliefs on them isn't going to encourage them to change one bit.

I wish some of the mobs burnt Danish embassies in the wake of the cartoon controversy had applied the same logic.
It works both ways; both sides (if there really are 'sides') get out of line. I'm trying to call it down the middle here, and I see less transgressions based on 'way of life' coming from the 'other side'.

I'm open to correction and debate though.

ojewriej

ScumLord wrote: »

That's fair enough but at the end of the day those people don't absolutely have to live in those countries if they don't want to and allot do like they're lifestyles.

A lot do like their lifestyle, that's granted, they can do whatever they want.

But somehow i don't think that it's so easy to leave - i mean from what i understand, women are not allowed to leave the house without a man to accompany her, so i can't see them getting a passport and leaving for an infidel country just like that.

ojewriej

Wacker wrote: »

I wish some of the mobs burnt Danish embassies in the wake of the cartoon controversy had applied the same logic.
It works both ways; both sides (if there really are 'sides') get out of line. I'm trying to call it down the middle here, and I see less transgressions based on 'way of life' coming from the 'other side'.

I'm open to correction and debate though.

Exactly. In quite recent poll over 50% of young Muslims said that they would like to see Sharia law introduced in Ireland. Given how quickly Muslim population grows here, that's troubles brewing.

ScumLord

I pretty sure it's not as bad as is let on but there can be no doubt woman get treated like **** over there. We have a tried and tested weapon against oppressive states like these though. MTV and pop music can cripple any regime by corrupting it's youth. Back up the army and send in girls aloud.

Wacker

ScumLord wrote: »

I pretty sure it's not as bad as is let on but there can be no doubt woman get treated like **** over there. We have a tried and tested weapon against oppressive states like these though. MTV and pop music can cripple any regime by corrupting it's youth. Back up the army and send in girls aloud.

Wait, I'm confused by this - are you now advocating that we should attack their way of life?

ScumLord

Wacker wrote: »

Wait, I'm confused by this - are you now advocating that we should attack their way of life?

Well I think at the end of the day it's always going to attack they're way of life, parts of it anyway. I'm just saying just because we think we're right doesn't give us the right to force them to live like us. I think Islamic culture seems more geared towards the community rather than the individual which I'm not at all against.

griffdaddy

Ireland's integration problems will be nothing compared to the rest of Europe, mainly down to our recent limiting of Non-Eu workers. The biggest group of immigrants here is the Polish, a people which are traditionally but becoming less catholic and have a reputation as hard workers who like to drink. Sounds very familiar.
I just simply can't tolerate Muslim culture in the western world, head scarfs, poor women's rights etc. I don't care what tradition they were raised in, we have our traditions and customs in this part of the world too but the fact that I was brought up in the liberal western tradition doesn't automatically entitle me to drink and have my girlfriend walk around in short skirts etc. in Saudi Arabia or where ever. So why should we be allowing them to subvert our culture, simply because of where they grew up?

mise_me_fein

ojewriej wrote: »

Exactly. In quite recent poll over 50% of young Muslims said that they would like to see Sharia law introduced in Ireland. Given how quickly Muslim population grows here, that's troubles brewing.

I would not say this in public but this kind of comment fills me with hate.

ojewriej

mise_me_fein wrote: »

I would not say this in public but this kind of comment fills me with hate.

Why?

Sam Vimes

ScumLord wrote: »

What beginning to tick me off more and more these days is the west holier than tho attitude towards Muslims. We look down our noses at them for being religious over capitalistic individualists.

We have no right to tell them how to live and trying to enforce our beliefs on them isn't going to encourage them to change one bit. We might not like the way they run there countries but they're fully entitled to run it how they see fit.

the only belief i want forced on them is that they shouldn't be forcing our beliefs on us. to quote south park:

randy:ever since that cartoon in denmark you can't show a picture of mohammad


stan:no, MUSLIMS can't show a picture of mohammad.


the rule seems to be that in their countries we have to change our behaviour to avoid offending them and in our countries we have to change our behaviour to avoid offending them. they can burn effigies of our god etc but if we show a picture of their prophet and imply that he's violent they feel justified in having violent protests to prove that they're not violent

ojewriej wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. I think we should be saying something when a girl is being sentenced to 200 lashes because she was in a car with a fella. And they were both gangraped. Pretending that nothing happened is not right here. Fair enough about not telling them how to run their country, but stopping trading with them perhaps would be an option.

the reporting of that story is really starting to piss me off. every paper is making out that she's being whipped for being gang raped and that is not the case. she is being whipped because she was in a car with a male non-relative. the fact that she was raped afterwards is irrelevant.

She broke saudi law and having a crime commited against her does not excuse her from punishment for her own crime. in ireland, if a rape victim was found with €10,000 worth of coke she wouldn't be let off the dealing conviction because she got raped.

i don't agree with the law but today in the metro there was a story about it and the fact that she was being punished for being in the car wasn't even mentioned. all they said was "gang rape victim is to be whipped" and its not fcuking true!

Sam Vimes

ojewriej wrote: »

Exactly. In quite recent poll over 50% of young Muslims said that they would like to see Sharia law introduced in Ireland. Given how quickly Muslim population grows here, that's troubles brewing.

now that kind of thing pisses me off. we live in a christian* country. we live with christian values. if they don't like that they can **** off back to a country where they'll get whipped for being in a car with a girl. they have no more right to tell me how to live in my country than i have to tell them how to live in theirs.


*I'm not a christian because i don't believe in god but i like the value system nonetheless

ojewriej

Commander Vimes wrote: »

the reporting of that story is really starting to piss me off. every paper is making out that she's being whipped for being gang raped and that is not the case. she is being whipped because she was in a car with a male non-relative. the fact that she was raped afterwards is irrelevant.

She broke saudi law and having a crime commited against her does not excuse her from punishment for her own crime. in ireland, if a rape victim was found with €10,000 worth of coke she wouldn't be let off the dealing conviction because she got raped.

i don't agree with the law but today in the metro there was a story about it and the fact that she was being punished for being in the car wasn't even mentioned. all they said was "gang rape victim is to be whipped" and its not fcuking true!

I wrote that she was being punished for being in the car with a male. I do think that the fact that she was gang raped should influence the verdict, but that's my opinion. You are right - she broke Saudi law - don't you think the punishment is excessive though?

And you a right about the papers as well, they should get it right, especially that being sentenced to 200 whips for something like that is horrendous enogh.

Sam Vimes

ojewriej wrote: »

I wrote that she was being punished for being in the car with a male. I do think that the fact that she was gang raped should influence the verdict, but that's my opinion. You are right - she broke Saudi law - don't you think the punishment is excessive though?

And you a right about the papers as well, they should get it right, especially that being sentenced to 200 whips for something like that is horrendous enogh.

i know you wrote about the car. i was just saying the papers aren't reporting it right.

why should being raped influence the verdict? if a drug dealer got raped do you think he/she should get a lighter sentence?

i think the punishment is excessive but i'm not a muslim and i can't tell them how to run their country. in ireland less than 30 years ago girls of "loose morals" were sent to the magdalene laundries. the saudis hardly have a monopoly on excessive punishments. and there were girls sent to those laundries for the crime of being raped unlike in this case where the girl actually broke the law.

Wacker

Commander Vimes wrote: »

i don't agree with the law but today in the metro there was a story about it and the fact that she was being punished for being in the car wasn't even mentioned. all they said was "gang rape victim is to be whipped" and its not fcuking true!

Well, if that was all it said, then it is true. She was gang-raped and she will be whipped.

I'm also not crazy about the 10k worth of coke example. That would be a very serious crime, which I don't think being in the car unaccompanied is (but I'm no expert on Saudi law). How about this - a woman steals a €500 euro handbag, and security catch her and subsequently rape her. I personally wouldn't want to see her charged with the theft - her ordeal was horrific enough. One may disagree, dependant on how rigorous they are about the law.

humanji

Wacker wrote: »

Well, if that was all it said, then it is true. She was gang-raped and she will be whipped.

I'm also not crazy about the 10k worth of coke example. That would be a very serious crime, which I don't think being in the car unaccompanied is (but I'm no expert on Saudi law). How about this - a woman steals a €500 euro handbag, and security catch her and subsequently rape her. I personally wouldn't want to see her charged with the theft - her ordeal was horrific enough. One may disagree, dependant on how rigorous they are about the law.

Being caught with a man you're not related to is a fairly serious crime over there. Nothing like stealing a bag.

ojewriej

Commander Vimes wrote: »

why should being raped influence the verdict? if a drug dealer got raped do you think he/she should get a lighter sentence?

i think the punishment is excessive but i'm not a muslim and i can't tell them how to run their country. in ireland less than 30 years ago girls of "loose morals" were sent to the magdalene laundries. the saudis hardly have a monopoly on excessive punishments. and there were girls sent to those laundries for the crime of being raped unlike in this case where the girl actually broke the law.

Drug dealer - sitting in the car with a fella - different type of crime.

The point about Magdalene Laundries is very valid, especially that it wasn't that long ago. The girls sent there were not sentenced by court to torture. They were sent to the nuns, who were supposed to show them error of their ways by hard work and prayer. It didn't work out like that, but that's a different issue. Also, it was done away with, and I think we should do whatever we can to stop this type of punishment happening anywhere. You are right, we shouldn't be telling people how to run their country, but we could show them we don't accept it, liek not doing any business with them. We did this with Cuba i believe?

Just see what happened when the people didn;t think they should tell germans how to run their country back in 30s. I know it's different situation, but the principle remains the same.

Wacker

ojewriej wrote: »

Drug dealer - sitting in the car with a fella - different typo of crime.

I realise that this is off-topic, but you just wrote the word typo by accident when you meant type. That is seriously hilarious stuff.

Sam Vimes

Wacker wrote: »

Well, if that was all it said, then it is true. She was gang-raped and she will be whipped.

its not true. its a lie by omission. the implication is that she is being punished for being raped and that is not true

Wacker wrote: »

I'm also not crazy about the 10k worth of coke example. That would be a very serious crime, which I don't think being in the car unaccompanied is (but I'm no expert on Saudi law). How about this - a woman steals a €500 euro handbag, and security catch her and subsequently rape her. I personally wouldn't want to see her charged with the theft - her ordeal was horrific enough. One may disagree, dependant on how rigorous they are about the law.

so if i steal something and i don't want to go to jail i should get soem friends to beat me up should i?

if she was let off for her crime because of this it would be seen as condoning vigilante justice

Sam Vimes

ojewriej wrote: »

Drug dealer - sitting in the car with a fella - different typo of crime.

in your opinion. not in the opinion of the saudi arabian judges. as humanji said, its a very serious crime over there

ojewriej

Wacker wrote: »

I realise that this is off-topic, but you just wrote the word typo by accident when you meant type. That is seriously hilarious stuff.

I don't know what are you talking about ;-)

Sam Vimes

ojewriej wrote: »

The point about Magdalene Laundries is very valid, especially that it wasn't that long ago. The girls sent there were not sentenced by court to torture. They were sent to the nuns, who were supposed to show them error of their ways by hard work and prayer. It didn't work out like that, but that's a different issue. Also, it was done away with, and I think we should do whatever we can to stop this type of punishment happening anywhere. You are right, we shouldn't be telling people how to run their country, but we could show them we don't accept it, liek not doing any business with them. We did this with Cuba i believe?

well no, america did this with cuba. america and isreal are the only countries that still support the embargo but america has a veto so it stays

ojewriej wrote: »

Just see what happened when the people didn;t think they should tell germans how to run their country back in 30s. I know it's different situation, but the principle remains the same.

america didn't like how iraq was run and they are currently telling them how to run their country. look how that turned out.

we live in a democractic society and thus we don't force our way of life on other sovereign nations

Wacker

Commander Vimes wrote: »

so if i steal something and i don't want to go to jail i should get soem friends to beat me up should i?

Man, if you're going to quote me, could you at least say what I actually said? In your example youasked the guys to do it.Now, If you stole something worth about €500 and you subsequently got raped as a punishment, yes, I do think you should go free. Is this controversial?

ojewriej

Commander Vimes wrote: »

in your opinion. not in the opinion of the saudi arabian judges. as humanji said, its a very serious crime over there

Agreed. Still, torture shouldn't be an option.

Wacker

ojewriej wrote: »

Agreed. Still, torture shouldn't be an option.

It isn't really torture, in fairness. it is corporal punishment. The truth is bad enough without having to exaggerate.

ScumLord

Commander Vimes wrote:

the rule seems to be that in their countries we have to change our behaviour to avoid offending them and in our countries we have to change our behaviour to avoid offending them.

Is that not fair enough though, if you had guest over to your house would not try and make them as comfortable as possible?

All they're really saying is according to our religion we have to do this or we can't do that. Is it not just polite to accept that and not aggravate them. It shows a complete lack of respect to just say we don't care about your culture **** of back to where ever you came from.

ojewriej

Wacker wrote: »

It isn't really torture, in fairness. it is corporal punishment. The truth is bad enough without having to exaggerate.

Torture is the infliction of severe pain as a punishment or a forcible means of persuasion. That's from Oxford dictionary. So i think it falls under that category.

But i don't think it makes any difference, i'm talking about any kind of physical punishment.

Lands Leaving

ScumLord wrote: »

Is that not fair enough though, if you had guest over to your house would not try and make them as comfortable as possible?

All they're really saying is according to our religion we have to do this or we can't do that. Is it not just polite to accept that and not aggravate them. It shows a complete lack of respect to just say we don't care about your culture **** of back to where ever you came from.

I agree that we should aggravate them, but we really shouldn't have to change our behaviour and laws, they could make some semblance of an effort to integrate. Why did they leave their country if they want exactly the same treatment over here. If I moved to a Muslim country I'd never expect to be able to live by Irish standards and to think I could would be absurd. This country should NOT change a thing for them, lest we end up in the stranglehold of another religion. We're still fcuked up from catholicism.

If they want to practice Islam, fine, if they want to say I can't exercise my freedom of speech and say its a load of crap then they can **** off.

Oh and I'm sorry but the veils are fcuking stupid. If I lived in a country that oppressed me for my gender, then left it to live in one with (don't start a debate on feminism, please!) gender equality, the first thing I'd do is rebel against the old system, but these twits go around wrapped up in robes, and let themselves be treated as second class citizens.

Don't leave your backwards country if you're gonna bring your backwards crap with you. Leave to get away from it. Otherwise - Why are you leaving.

And now I wait to be told how wrong I am. Fun!

MagicMarker

Woah woah woah!! Since when did this thread become serious!?

ScumLord

Do the Muslims actually ask for any of this stuff though. Whenever I hear a news report saying that christian symbols be removed it never starts with Muslims demand.. It start with the PC brigade have decided that this might upset Muslims so we should change it.

Everyone keeps harping on about this being a Christian country when it's not really, it's daft that atheists in this country will go on about how the church should be removed from everything then argue that this is a Christian country and Muslims should get used to it. This isn't a Christian country it's a free republic where everyone can believe whatever nonsense they choose.

The state has an obligation to look out for the best interests of Muslims just as much as it does Christians. Just because Christianity is in the majority doesn't mean everything should go it's way.

ojewriej

Commander Vimes wrote: »

well no, america did this with cuba. america and isreal are the only countries that still support the embargo but america has a veto so it stays

Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Commander Vimes wrote: »

america didn't like how iraq was run and they are currently telling them how to run their country. look how that turned out.

we live in a democractic society and thus we don't force our way of life on other sovereign nations

I'm not advocating invading the country. All i'm saying is that we should make it clear that we are not down with that sort of thing

ScumLord wrote: »

Is that not fair enough though, if you had guest over to your house would not try and make them as comfortable as possible?

All they're really saying is according to our religion we have to do this or we can't do that. Is it not just polite to accept that and not aggravate them. It shows a complete lack of respect to just say we don't care about your culture **** of back to where ever you came from.

It's not about not caring about their culture. For instance, do you think it's ok to insist to cover your face on the pictures on official documents, like it was allowed in Czech Republic? I mean fair enough, cover it if you want to, but then accept that you won't be allowed to drive. How about a group of men attacking girls on the beach in Australia for wearing bikinis? That happened not long ago. We can and we try to accept their culture, but some things just won't work with our system.

Wacker

ScumLord wrote: »

Everyone keeps harping on about this being a Christian country when it's not really, it's daft that atheists in this country will go on about how the church should be removed from everything then argue that this is a Christian country and Muslims should get used to it. This isn't a Christian country it's a free republic where everyone can believe whatever nonsense they choose.

I'm an atheist, and I've never made any noise about this being a Christian country. What I (and I imagine other atheists, but I can't speak for them) want is not a Christian country but a secular one, where religion has no part in publin life.

In fairness, there aren't many remnants of Catholicism left in Irish public life. I do want all of them gone though - the Angelus broadcast on RTE, pubs having to close on Christmas day and Good Friday, their influence in education, etc.

ScumLord

ojewriej wrote:

It's not about not caring about their culture. For instance, do you think it's ok to insist to cover your face on the pictures on official documents,

No that's just daft. An official government document like that needs to have a proper picture. They have to accept that no disrespect is meant by it and it's a necessity in a country like this. Maybe they could get around it by putting a stick on face rag (I can't remember what there really called me is too tired) over the passport photo. I think with a bit of sensitivity something could be arranged.

ojewriej wrote:

How about a group of men attacking girls on the beach in Australia for wearing bikinis? That happened not long ago.

The Islamic faith is the biggest in the world, one outburst by radicals like this doesn't really reflect that badly on the group as a hole. You get the same kind of radical bulling from the christian groups as well, ie: Murdering doctors that do abortions.

ojewriej

ScumLord wrote: »

No that's just daft. An official government document like that needs to have a proper picture. They have to accept that no disrespect is meant by it and it's a necessity in a country like this. Maybe they could get around it by putting a stick on face rag (I can't remember what there really called me is too tired) over the passport photo. I think with a bit of sensitivity something could be arranged.

Probably, but it wasn't. Girl sued and they gave up. Don't get me wrong, i have bigger problem with Czech authorities for putting up with this than with this girl.

ScumLord wrote: »

The Islamic faith is the biggest in the world, one outburst by radicals like this doesn't really reflect that badly on the group as a hole. .

It's not really just one outburst though. Demonstrations under "Kill infidel" banner are happening all over the world. Theo van Gogh killing, Danish cartoons, bombings, there is a lot of examples.

ScumLord wrote: »

You get the same kind of radical bulling from the christian groups as well, ie: Murdering doctors that do abortions.

Very true. Thre is one problem with that. radical christian groups are always condemned by less radical ones. But mainstream Muslims (don't really know how to call them), are not very outspoken. For some reason you never hear them.

griffdaddy

ScumLord wrote: »

Do the Muslims actually ask for any of this stuff though. Whenever I hear a news report saying that christian symbols be removed it never starts with Muslims demand.. It start with the PC brigade have decided that this might upset Muslims so we should change it.

Everyone keeps harping on about this being a Christian country when it's not really, it's daft that atheists in this country will go on about how the church should be removed from everything then argue that this is a Christian country and Muslims should get used to it. This isn't a Christian country it's a free republic where everyone can believe whatever nonsense they choose.

The state has an obligation to look out for the best interests of Muslims just as much as it does Christians. Just because Christianity is in the majority doesn't mean everything should go it's way.

The church should be removed from everything. I think the argument people here are making about Ireland being a Christian country is that we live in a Christian tradition, i.e. one that is accepting and inclusive. You could call it a Humanist perspective if you want, which is more realistically what it is now. Usually I'd agree about trying to make some effort to welcome people from foreign cultures, but when their believe system is entirely at the opposite end of the spectrum it becomes pretty difficult. I have no idea what the fúck all the Muslims are doing here in the Netherlands, why would you move to probably the most socially liberal country in the world if you come from one of the most conservative upbringings in the world, and then when you get to the liberal country, adopt a kind of feigned outrage at that country's culture? apart from leading to social and political tension, it's just a stupid thing to do. if they belief in it so vehemently, why don't Muslims stick to the places where Islamic law is the Status Quo? It's like, instead of having my own party with conservative and repressed minimalist techno, i go to a big Drum and Bass party where everyone's having a good time listening to music they like, and then i start to whinge that it's not what i want and i want it changed now. The people at the Drum and Bass party say, 'sorry man, we really like Drum and Bass, and your minimalist techno is shítty and backwards, but here's some headphones you can listen to it on?' and my response would be 'Well, turn off the Drum and Bass then, i hate it. i can't properly hear MY techno and my needs come first'
hmmm, what was my point again?

Beetlebum

zaph wrote: »

You need to get out more. Maybe take up a hobby or go travelling.

****in A

ScumLord

griffdaddy wrote: »

The church should be removed from everything. I think the argument people here are making about Ireland being a Christian country is that we live in a Christian tradition, i.e. one that is accepting and inclusive. You could call it a Humanist perspective if you want, which is more realistically what it is now. Usually I'd agree about trying to make some effort to welcome people from foreign cultures, but when their believe system is entirely at the opposite end of the spectrum it becomes pretty difficult. I have no idea what the fúck all the Muslims are doing here in the Netherlands, why would you move to probably the most socially liberal country in the world if you come from one of the most conservative upbringings in the world, and then when you get to the liberal country, adopt a kind of feigned outrage at that country's culture? apart from leading to social and political tension, it's just a stupid thing to do. if they belief in it so vehemently, why don't Muslims stick to the places where Islamic law is the Status Quo? It's like, instead of having my own party with conservative and repressed minimalist techno, i go to a big Drum and Bass party where everyone's having a good time listening to music they like, and then i start to whinge that it's not what i want and i want it changed now. The people at the Drum and Bass party say, 'sorry man, we really like Drum and Bass, and your minimalist techno is shítty and backwards, but here's some headphones you can listen to it on?' and my response would be 'Well, turn off the Drum and Bass then, i hate it. i can't properly hear MY techno and my needs come first'
hmmm, what was my point again?

Emm.. Something to do with silent discos I think???

That's all true they don't seem to get the concept of how things work in the west. Your free to do whatever you like as long as you let other people do there thing. But I wonder if all we're doing is encouraging the rift. I know no Islamic people, I've rarely ever seen them in Ireland it's like they hide out. The only one I've talked to was on an Islamic website. He loved his religion maybe you could call him fundamentalist but he would go off on rants on how wrong the militant Muslims where and how much he hated them. He had visited Ireland and loved the place, he liked horses.

griffdaddy

That is true, but the incentives to get to know them aren't really there. especially for young liberal people. I'm a Philosophy and English student on Erasmus in the middle of the 'Dam, not exactly looking to get bogged down in conservatism at his stage of my life, or any other stage of my life for that matter.
I can't believe how stupid and short-sighted the person who killed Theo van Gogh was though, they literally reversed popular public opinion on Islam in the Netherlands over night. Muslims are public enemy number 1 since then, even among the liberal middle classes.

ojewriej

I think the biggest problem is a lack of dialogue. As someone said, Muslims tend to keep to themselves, so the only glimpse of the culture we really get is the radical ones, making demands and threatening people. Plus there is the PC brigade. As scumlord said, the ridiculus demands are coming mostly from them, not from Muslims. Plus they are very quick to brand anyone who has different opinion a racist which pretty much stops the discussion.

griffdaddy

ojewriej wrote: »

I think the biggest problem is a lack of dialogue. As someone said, Muslims tend to keep to themselves, so the only glimpse of the culture we really get is the radical ones, making demands and threatening people. Plus there is the PC brigade. As scumlord said, the ridiculus demands are coming mostly from them, not from Muslims. Plus they are very quick to brand anyone who has different opinion a racist which pretty much stops the discussion.

(facetious comment/)Where do we meet them though? Even the purely social (as in fun) aspects of society here are against Islam, you can't go to the pub, can't take em out for a burger, what to do? (/facetious comment)
You're right about the pc brigade though, they make issues where there are none, and accentuate tiny ones. Although there are those who like to be victimised, i.e. those jokers in M&S who wouldn't handle alcohol, what a farce.

Blisterman

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I went into the jacks in Ballinteer House yesterday and someone left a huge dump unflushed in the gents with a minature Polish flag adorning it.

What is this country coming to????

Hmm.. Looks like you can, in fact polish a turd...

Sam Vimes

Wacker wrote: »

Man, if you're going to quote me, could you at least say what I actually said? In your example youasked the guys to do it.Now, If you stole something worth about €500 and you subsequently got raped as a punishment, yes, I do think you should go free. Is this controversial?

the judge doesn't know i asked them to do it. all the judge knows is i committed a crime and got beaten up for it. if he then lets me off because i've already been punished, he's giving a green light to all vigilantes nationwide

ojewriej wrote: »

Agreed. Still, torture shouldn't be an option.

that's not our decision unfortunately

ScumLord wrote: »

Is that not fair enough though, if you had guest over to your house would not try and make them as comfortable as possible?

All they're really saying is according to our religion we have to do this or we can't do that. Is it not just polite to accept that and not aggravate them. It shows a complete lack of respect to just say we don't care about your culture **** of back to where ever you came from.

showing some respect is all good but not what i'm talking about. let's give an example:

i don't take my shoes off when going into my house but my guest always takes his shoes off in anyone's house. so:

1. he takes his shoes off even though i don't require it: fine

2. he leaves his shoes on in order to "integrate": fine

3. i go to his house and he insists i take my shoes off: fine

4. he comes to my house and insists i take my shoes off because that's what he does in his house: not fine

ojewriej

Commander Vimes wrote: »

that's not our decision unfortunately

True, we should voice our opinion about it though.

Commander Vimes wrote: »

i don't take my shoes off when going into my house but my guest always takes his shoes off in anyone's house. so:

1. he takes his shoes off even though i don't require it: fine

2. he leaves his shoes on in order to "integrate": fine

3. i go to his house and he insists i take my shoes off: fine

4. he comes to my house and insists i take my shoes off because that's what he does in his house: not fine

Very nicely put.

randylonghorn

ojewriej wrote: »

Very nicely put.

Agreed. Gets to the nub of a lot of the arguments above about who should do what where.

humbert

+1, very succinct .

Ri_Nollaig

Blisterman wrote: »

Hmm.. Looks like you can, in fact polish a turd...

hahaha brillant!

Commander Vimes wrote: »

1. he takes his shoes off even though i don't require it: fine

2. he leaves his shoes on in order to "integrate": fine

3. i go to his house and he insists i take my shoes off: fine

4. he comes to my house and insists i take my shoes off because that's what he does in his house: not fine

very nicely worded