Another Soccer Banning

Xavi6

Ok first up apologies to those who are sick of people complaining about the moderation in the soccer forum. Unfortunately I feel I have been on the receiving end of it and have no choice but to air my case.

So this morning I received this -

Charter violation - Abuse

2 Weeks.

Now inevitably I was surprised. Had I called a fellow poster a name? Had I insulted someone inadvertantly? Looking back over my posts the answer was no, I hadn't.

So I PM'd the mod (can I name?) and asked why. I had presumed it was something in the Roy Keane thread as there were conflicts of opinions. But I was wrong, well half wrong. It was to do with Keane but in a different thread. I used an insulting adjective to describe him -

Xavi6 wrote:

We nick a last minute winner, the other lot lose miserably and that w*nker Keane is made a mockery of. It's a great Saturday!

Now bear in mind my team had just nicked an important last minute winner, our biggest rivals lost and they guy I hate most in English football got hammered. I was over the moon and was excited upon posting.

The mod's response is that it was 'mindless abuse'. Well how I laughed. Negative personal opinions aren't allowed? The post was so bad it hasn't even been feckin edited!

The worst part is a few weeks back I did almost the same thing in another Premiership thread -

Xavi6 wrote:

I notice this thread is for the 3rd and 4th. What about the big game on the 5th? The thought of that wordthatshallnotbesaid-bag Keane winning at our place scares me.

A similar adjective. Was I banned? Warned? No. So why would I not do it again?

Also tonight we had this comment from a poster -

How in the name of bejaysus was Hunt not sent off/arrested today. Scumbag.

Surely that would also constitute 'mindless abuse'. Was he banned? I also recently read a thread where Almunia of Arsenal was referred to as a 'tard'. No banning there. Is Keane exempt from criticism?

Basically I'm pissed because I wasn't told anything when I commented on Keane the first time and yet I'm banned for doing it again. Also I have no previous record for abuse and am a regular and well behaved poster in the forum. I think a warning would have been fair for a first offence but a banning is ridiculous.

godtabh

If you dont like other posters post report it.

Just because they havent been banned yet doenst mean they wont be.

Soccer needs to be strict. A lot of crap happened there before.

You got done fore personal abuse

Xavi6

kearnsr wrote: »

Soccer needs to be strict. A lot of crap happened there before.

Yep agree wholeheartadly. The problem is that that the mods aren't. My issue, as I said, is with the selective banning. It should be all or nothing.

kearnsr wrote: »

You got done fore personal abuse

Eh no I didn't. This is the reason I was given in PM -

It was the Roy Keane is a wanker comment.

godtabh

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yep agree wholeheartadly. The problem is that that the mods aren't. My issue, as I said, is with the selective banning. It should be all or nothing.



Eh no I didn't. This is the reason I was given in PM -

Sorry I meant personal abuse towards roy keane. As far as I've seen before people either got banned for personal abuse directly to boards posters or personal abuse to others that either merits a ban in its self or likely to cause trouble later in the thread.

Did you report the post? I'm sure the soccer mods have better stuff to do than to read every single thread and post

Chinafoot

Xavi6 wrote: »

My issue, as I said, is with the selective banning. It should be all or nothing.

Have you reported any of these other posts or are the mods meant to have read every single post in the forum? Slightly unrealistic if you're expecting the latter. Mods need the help of the users when it comes to off-topic and abusive posts.

Terms of abuse such as "scumbag" and "wanker" aren't allowed in soccer whether it's in reference to another poster or a team/player.

soccer forum charter wrote:

Outbursts of personal abuse/racism etc, be it directed at other board members or at groups of fans or sports personalities people will not be tolerated. We reserve the right to edit/move/delete such posts as we see fit and issue bans to the poster of such. The basic rule is keeping it civil; you can have friendly banter without resorting to personal abuse.

You broke the rules and got a ban. Seems fairly clear-cut to me.

Xavi6

kearnsr wrote: »

Sorry I meant personal abuse towards roy keane. As far as I've seen before people either got banned for personal abuse directly to boards posters or personal abuse to others that either merits a ban in its self or likely to cause trouble later in the thread.

I doubt Roy Keane read the thread when he got home last night and made a complaint. I called him a wanker. Anyone else who someone takes offence to that is ridiculous.

kearnsr wrote: »

Did you report the post? I'm sure the soccer mods have better stuff to do than to read every single thread and post

No I don't report posts like that because they don't offend me. If someone called a player a wanker I'd accept it as personal opinion not abuse. If the mods are so busy why would they ban someone for something so trivial as this?

Look Hunt was called a scumbag, Almunia a 'tard and there are countless other examples. I don't think these people should be banned either. It's an opinion.

Xavi6

We reserve the right to edit/move/delete such posts as we see fit and issue bans to the poster of such.

Chinafoot wrote: »

You broke the rules and got a ban. Seems fairly clear-cut to me.

The post wasn't edited, wasn't deleted, wasn't moved and I didn't get a warning but yet it bad enough to warrant a ban? Surely a warning would suffice for a first offence.

Chinafoot

Xavi6 wrote: »

The post wasn't edited, wasn't deleted, wasn't moved and I didn't get a warning but yet it bad enough to warrant a ban? Surely a warning would suffice for a first offence.

In order to gain access to soccer you have apply to the mods, yes? When you apply for access you state that you have read the charter, yes? Why then do you think you deserve a warning when you broke the first rule in that charter? As far as I'd be concerned, especially somewhere like soccer, the charter is your warning.

Xavi6

Chinafoot wrote: »

In order to gain access to soccer you have apply to the mods, yes? When you apply for access you state that you have read the charter, yes? Why then do you think you deserve a warning when you broke the first rule in that charter? As far as I'd be concerned, especially somewhere like soccer, the charter is your warning.

There is no point in having a charter if it isn't 100% enforced. If soccer is that bad then maybe there needs to be more mods to punish everyone, not just the odd one or two who insult the wrong person or are unfortunate to be caught.

Mr. Presentable

I could be wrong here, but I'd imagine the OP, like me, has no feelings one way or another about Roy keane the person, given that I don't know him. Had I made the remark in question it would have been directed at Roy Keane the icon/idol revered by so many. This is what I suspect was also the OP's target. Thus not personal abuse.

On related remarks, reporting posts or not, there was a mod on the discussion who should have acted on the other personal abuses, if only to appear to be even-handed. That he/she didn't smacks of innefficiency of the moderating or favouritism or double standards - none of which is laudable. But we've seen this debate before, no?

Peyton Manning

Happens us all big guy - its what you get for not contributing to Eircom League discussions. Take it on the chin.

leninbenjamin

i think Xavi6 is making some valid remarks in relation to the modding of the soccer forum. it certainly seems... inconsistent... at times.

one of the reasons for this i feel is that the mods get very little help from the rest of us who post there mostly because the rest of us aren't bothered by said rules... then the onus is on the mods to look at every single thread and post, which some days is quite difficult as the forum can receive an awful lot of traffic.

Xavi6

Archimedes wrote: »

Happens us all big guy - its what you get for not contributing to Eircom League discussions. Take it on the chin.

I would but unfortunately it's a 'three strikes your out' policy and this is number 2 (I was also a victim of the inconsistent 'scum' bannings discussed in the other thread. I'm walking a fine line thanks to this trivial banning.

Peyton Manning

Although I dont agree with your opinion of Sir Roy, and frankly I never will , I understand it must be hard to take the ban seeing as others get away with similar offenses. I got banned last year for calling Robin Van Persie a pr1ck, and during the 2 weeks I was banned I had seen and reported similar and worse name calling. Of course nothing was done about it, I was just told to stop reporting posts.

copacetic

Chinafoot wrote: »

In order to gain access to soccer you have apply to the mods, yes? When you apply for access you state that you have read the charter, yes? Why then do you think you deserve a warning when you broke the first rule in that charter? As far as I'd be concerned, especially somewhere like soccer, the charter is your warning.

hardly, on the other recent thread in feedback it was stated by soccer mods that they were being more lenient these days hence why people got banned in the past for this kind of thing, but not any more.

Then the OP gets banned for something that happens in most threads every day. His post wasn't reported either so where is the consistency? Or even an attempt at it?

Chinafoot

nipplenuts wrote: »

I could be wrong here, but I'd imagine the OP, like me, has no feelings one way or another about Roy keane the person, given that I don't know him. Had I made the remark in question it would have been directed at Roy Keane the icon/idol revered by so many. This is what I suspect was also the OP's target. Thus not personal abuse.

It's still against the charter though. You may not see it as abuse. You may not be offended when other people use phrases like that to describe players/managers/teams, but the fact of the matter is it's a bannable offence on the soccer forum as stated in the charter that you all claime to have read before gaining access.

Xavi6 wrote:

There is no point in having a charter if it isn't 100% enforced. If soccer is that bad then maybe there needs to be more mods to punish everyone, not just the odd one or two who insult the wrong person or are unfortunate to be caught.

And a charter can't be 100% enforced if the users of the forum aren't doing their bit and reporting posts that break the rules.

MrJoeSoap

Archimedes wrote: »

Happens us all big guy - its what you get for not contributing to Eircom League discussions. Take it on the chin.

What the hell are you talking about? I contribute to Eircom League discussions and I've been banned twice. Xavi6 is a Shelbourne fan and has commented on the Eircom League plenty and has now been banned twice.

Are you suggesting that people who don't follow the Eircom League are being victimised, because that is so far from the truth its not even funny.

Do you remember thejollyrodger?

Chinafoot

copacetic wrote: »

hardly, on the other recent thread in feedback it was stated by soccer mods that they were being more lenient these days hence why people got banned in the past for this kind of thing, but not any more.

Then the OP gets banned for something that happens in most threads every day. His post wasn't reported either so where is the consistency? Or even an attempt at it?

Well thats something only the relevant mod(s) can answer. As far as I can see the OP's post was against the charter. Seems pretty simple to me, but thats just my opinion.

copacetic

Chinafoot wrote: »

Well thats something only the relevant mod(s) can answer. As far as I can see the OP's post was against the charter. Seems pretty simple to me, but thats just my opinion.

you should probably have a look at the other thread, it is at the bottom of the page..

Latchy

It's just my humble opinion but the fact that you have to apply to the soccer forum for entrance tells it's own story ,obiously some people are being abusive (i am assuming ) .I applied as requsted but was refused and still not sure why .Perhaps i applied incorrectly ?

DSB

Ridiculous banning. People do so much worse and get away with it on a regular basis.

estebancambias

To be fair I was banned for doing something similar, and the ban lasted longer than a month.

I still think it is unfair that a comment like that is deemed breaking the rules.

leninbenjamin

Chinafoot wrote: »

And a charter can't be 100% enforced if the users of the forum aren't doing their bit and reporting posts that break the rules.

not necessarily true. every single post gets read in AH, which has a fair bit more traffic than the soccer forums. it's common knowledge among the mods and users of the soccer forum that the vast majority of people frankly don't give a sh*t about some of the rules they put in place. we'll observe them but we're not gonna go as far as enforce something we don't fully agree with. the mods know this, so they should create a modding team that can operate with these constraints in mind. unfortunately this is not the case.

Necronomicon

I think it was harsh because of the context of the comment. If he'd started a thread that said 'Roy Keane is a w*nker' then it would've been a no-brainer, but it was just an excited post that could've been edited with a warning. Especially since in the same thread, Stephen Hunt was called a scumbag and as far as I can tell, he was only warned.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055188226&page=7

Posts #131 and #135.

RoundyMooney

Personal abuse toward Roy Keane?

Is he a member of boards.ie?

Is the comment in any way libellous?

Was the banning pre-emptive, in that it served to discourage further name calling, in other words, is it policy to discourage same in order to keep the forum more or less on the rails?

I'm genuinely curious here, because this comes up again and again.

Xavi6

Recently there was a thread started on the reasons why we hate England. Now the thread was left open and the OP wasn't banned/warned despite most people disagreeing with the statement i.e. we don't actually hate England. Now surely starting a hate thread is abuse. Was nothing done because no one actually reported the OP? As far I saw everyone made their feelings quite clear with their posts. Again it's the lazy, inconsistent modding that is a mark of the soccer forum.

RoundyMooney

Look, calling mods (or their actions) lazy and inconsistent is only going to inflame the issue.

My point above, is that Soccer comes up again, and again, and again, as a Feedback issue.

As it's such a contentious subject, no one is going to be 100% happy all the time, no matter how much people aspire to such a target.

It's time for suggestions here, rather than blanket criticism. If your own issue can be clarified/resolved along the way without a flame war breaking out, so much the better.

Latchy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Recently there was a thread started on the reasons why we hate England. Now the thread was left open and the OP wasn't banned/warned despite most people disagreeing with the statement i.e. we don't actually hate England. Now surely starting a hate thread is abuse. Was nothing done because no one actually reported the OP? As far I saw everyone made their feelings quite clear with their posts. Again it's the lazy, inconsistent modding that is a mark of the soccer forum.

Fair comment i would say ,for a froum subject to be equal and fair it must be modorated as such ,thats not to say the mods here dont do so .

Faith

kearnsr wrote: »

Did you report the post? I'm sure the soccer mods have better stuff to do than to read every single thread and post

Chinafoot wrote: »

Have you reported any of these other posts or are the mods meant to have read every single post in the forum?

The point of moderators is that they DO read every single post in their fora. Otherwise, why bother with them? If only reported posts are to be dealt with, them I'm sure the admins and Smods could deal with them. Most fora have several moderators, to ensure that everything gets read. Reported posts are helpful if the moderator is busy, but we all know the vast majority of problem posts aren't reported.

I'm not just talking about the soccer mods, but all mods. If you agree to moderate a forum, you agree to read all the posts whereever possible. If you can't do that, a co-mod is added to help. I know on the busier forums like soccer, politics, PI, AH etc this is difficult, but it's still part of the job description. A couple of threads down, Terry posted how he reads every single post on AH, so it's clearly not impossible. I read all the posts on the forums I moderate.

Anyway, this has very little to do with the topic at hand, but I don't think it's fair to blame a user for not reporting every single problem post they see when it's not their problem.

Xavi6

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Look, calling mods (or their actions) lazy and inconsistent is only going to inflame the issue.

Ok valid point and I retract. My frustration got the better there.

RoundyMooney wrote: »

It's time for suggestions here, rather than blanket criticism. If your own issue can be clarified/resolved along the way without a flame war breaking out, so much the better.

Reinstate me and admit an error! Problem solved.

Ah no seriously, the modding needs a serious look. Still no one had been installed to replace the inactive Talla. This needs to be done asap and I also think additional mods should be installed.

leninbenjamin

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ah no seriously, the modding needs a serious look. Still no one had been installed to replace the inactive Talla. This needs to be done asap and I also think additional mods should be installed.

agreed. at least two new mods should be added in my opinion, at least that is if it's deemed desirable to enforce the current charter.

secondly i think the mods of the forum need to agree a set protocol for dealing with the minor transgressions like this. it seems like some will ban where others simply issue a warning. an increased element of cooperation and consistency between mods is needed i personally feel.