New VRT Bands in todays Indo

mike65

RoundyMooney wrote: »

I presume this applies to secondhand imports too?

If so \o/

Either way, it's a commendable approach.

Standby for a flood of large Audi/Merc/BMW diesels?

Mike.

Meister

copacetic wrote: »

that doesn't make any sense at all to me Meister.
The only change to an A4 1.8T is 1% in the VRT rate but you have somehow managed to knock nearly 10% off the overall price, when it should be more like 0.4% off imo?

VRT is the last thing calculated and also you are taking it off wrongly, i.e if VRT is 25%, you can't just take 25% off final price as that is much more than 25% VRT would have added.

yeah your right it is confusing the feck out of me?

E92

HarryHood wrote: »

Apologies but I'm stumped on these VRT changes!

I've ordered a 1.6 car (3 series) for delivery in January '08. We have agreed a "difference to change" price (on paper) but now I'm afraid the dealer will ask me to cough up more due to VRT? I've already handed over a hefty deposit (d'oh!) so can't really afford to pull out (plus I really like the BMW).
Does anyone know for certain if the dealer will have gorunds (VRT) to ask for more cash or how will I be affected?

Many thanks.

Well the 316i's emissions aren't on the BMW website(the Efficient Dynamics ones certainly are not) but a reasonable guess is that they certainly won't be any more than the 318i's 142 g/km. The 316i ES retails for €38,300. The 118i pollutes 140 g/km, while the 116i pollutes 139 g/km. So lets for arguments sake say that the 316i pollutes 141 g/km then(remember I can't promise this as I don't have the figures, so I'm making an educated guess) VRT will have fallen from 25% to 20%.

The 316i ES will now cost((38300X0.75)/0.8)€35,906.25 so around €35,900 or €2,400 less than the PV of the car. However, what is far more interesting is the price of a 318i ES. It goes from €40,650 to ((40650X0.7)/0.8)€35,568.75 so around €35,600 so according to my calculations the 318i will actually be around €300 cheaper to buy than the 316i. So the next logical question is to ask why would you pay more for a car that is slower? Could someone please enlighten me as to why this is the case? Surley I've made a mistake somewhere, because either BMW are selling the 318i at a loss or the 316i at an enormous profit?

It gets better than this, lets take the 318d. The 318d ES is currently yours for €44,650. However under the new regime, it's VRT rate falls from 30% to 16%. So it now costs €37,208.33 or around €37,200 which is actually a grand less than the current price of the 316i ES. So you could have a car with 22 extra bhp, a car that averages a claimed 60.1 mpg, and a car with 103 lb ft of torque(221 vs 118 for the 316i). Torque is the thing that gets a car to overtake quickly, so again I ask the question why would you get a 316i for early next year, when if you were prepared to wait till July, you could buy a petrol with a more power and likely no less economical, and have around €3,000 to spare or still save money and have a car with a huge increase in torque and 12 mpg better?

j2dab

What does the % go to for bigger engine cars? What are the rising percentage and emission figures?

Henry Ford III

What VRT would a 115gCO2/km car suffer?

E92

Ice_Box wrote: »

BMW 120D is 129 g/km so dropping from 30% vrt to 16%vrt
whats that 4 or 5 grand?

Current Price: €39,650

Price from 1/7/08: €33,041 so around €33,100 I'm guessing, so it will a whopping €6,550 cheaper.

copacetic

E92 wrote: »

Well the 316i's emissions aren't on the BMW website(the Efficient Dynamics ones certainly are not) but a reasonable guess is that they certainly won't be any more than the 318i's 142 g/km. The 316i ES retails for €38,300. The 118i pollutes 140 g/km, while the 116i pollutes 139 g/km. So lets for arguments sake say that the 316i pollutes 141 g/km then(remember I can't promise this as I don't have the figures, so I'm making an educated guess) VRT will have fallen from 25% to 20%.

The 316i ES will now cost((38300X0.75)/0.8)€35,906.25 so around €35,900 or €2,400 less than the PV of the car. However, what is far more interesting is the price of a 318i ES. It goes from €40,650 to ((40650X0.7)/0.8)€35,568.75 so around €35,600 so according to my calculations the 318i will actually be around €300 cheaper to buy than the 316i. So the next logical question is to ask why would you pay more for a car that is slower? Could someone please enlighten me as to why this is the case? Surley I've made a mistake somewhere, because either BMW are selling the 318i at a loss or the 316i at an enormous profit?

It gets better than this, lets take the 318d. The 318d ES is currently yours for €44,650. However under the new regime, it's VRT rate falls from 30% to 16%. So it now costs €37,208.33 or around €37,200 which is actually a grand less than the current price of the 316i ES. So you could have a car with 22 extra bhp, a car that averages a claimed 60.1 mpg, and a car with 103 lb ft of torque(221 vs 118 for the 316i). Torque is the thing that gets a car to overtake quickly, so again I ask the question why would you get a 316i for early next year, when if you were prepared to wait till July, you could buy a petrol with a more power and likely no less economical, and have around €3,000 to spare or still save money and have a car with a huge increase in torque and 12 mpg better?

your figures don't make sense, you can't just knock 25% off to get the pre vrt price, the post vrt price is 125% of pre price.

so for example your 316 price should be (38300/1.25)x1.2= 36768

while the 318d if (44680/1.3)x1.16 = 39868

a big decrease but no cheaper that the 316

Lex Luthor

copacetic wrote: »

I have it now and the OPs numbers are not in it, he has made them up himself I presume. all they say is the reduction in vrt and they give a chart of example vrt reductions NOT RRP reductions. They also calculate them wrongly. the main bands given are:

121-140 gCO2/km
16% vrt
141-155
20% vrt
156-170
24% vrt

They mention the Alfa 1.9 JTS going up by 7% VRT.

However the OP has gone well wrong with his % RRP changes.

Nice one.

Never heard of the 1.9JTS. It must be a typo and read the 1.8JTS OR 2.0 jts.

IT APPEARS ALL DIESELS ARE GOING TO BENEFIT FROM THIS.

I don't understand the OP's first post in that a decrease of 30% to 24% is a 7% decrease???? surely 6%?

BrianD3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What VRT would a 115gCO2/km car suffer?

12% for cars in the 0-120 bracket.

copacetic

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Nice one.

Never heard of the 1.9JTS. It must be a typo and read the 1.8JTS OR 2.0 jts.

IT APPEARS ALL DIESELS ARE GOING TO BENEFIT FROM THIS.

I don't understand the OP's first post in that a decrease of 30% to 24% is a 7% decrease???? surely 6%?

alfa 159 1.9JTS:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/roadtests/22861/alfa_romeo_159.html

Henry Ford III

BrianD3 wrote: »

12% for cars in the 0-120 bracket.

New Focus 1.6 110bhp TDCI ECOnetic will be only 12% VRT? :cool: New Kuga with DSG type box will be a low polluter too.

Interesting developments if true.

What'll happen to Bio Fuel vehicles VRT wise?

What about road tax on these bigger engined diesels?

Ice_Box

HarryHood wrote: »

So can anyone tell if the RRP on a 316i will go up or down in July, and if so, by how much?
Thanks.

316i is retailing at 37,300
and the current vrt rate is 25%
so the price before vrt is 29,840
I dont know what the co2 figures are but I will guess at its in the 3rd band which is 24%
there for new price will be 37001.
A saving of €299

however the 318D will go from 30% to 16%
assuming with particle filter fitted the rate is 123g/km
but im not sure if the particle filter is fitted in ireland
current price €47,650
new price €42,518
a reduction of €5,132


EDIT : Not sure if Im doing this right

Ice_Box

BrianD3 wrote: »

12% for cars in the 0-120 bracket.

christ on a bike thats fantastic. what about the higher figures?

Anchises

What of all the second hand cars out there ?
Do they still continue to pollute and not suffer any levy ?

A.

pburns

Didn't Gormless announce a blanket increase in road tax for cars > 1.6 the other day?

Is ned or colm or any anyone from the trade out there to give an informed contribution to this? Was this known in the trade before today?

Dwilly

So for the bigger emitting engines that are assumingly going up in price, will it be possible that 6 month old cars could be sold on for more than they were purchased for next July?

Henry Ford III

Anchises wrote: »

What of all the second hand cars out there ?
Do they still continue to pollute and not suffer any levy ?

A.

Yep.

copacetic

Anchises wrote: »

What of all the second hand cars out there ?
Do they still continue to pollute and not suffer any levy ?

A.

vrt doesn't affect them, they will be looked after by changes in the car tax regime which presumably will be based on similar principles to this change.

Lex Luthor

copacetic wrote: »

alfa 159 1.9JTS:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/roadtests/22861/alfa_romeo_159.html

they must be doing away with the 1.8 petrol then as I don't see the need to have both available. However, I can see Alfa selling just 1.9 diesels if this is the case

E92

copacetic wrote: »

your figures don't make sense, you can't just knock 25% off to get the pre vrt price, the post vrt price is 125% of pre price.

so for example your 316 price should be (38300/1.25)x1.2= 36768

while the 318d if (44680/1.3)x1.16 = 39868

a big decrease but no cheaper that the 316

I remember calculating VRT before on here on Motors the way you just did, only to be told that it is completely wrong. You see, VRT works like this: if a car costs €100,000 and is in the 30% VRT band, then the price without VRT is €70,000. 30% refers to the total price of the car ex-works, not 30% on top of the price without VRT. That's why it is such a scam of a tax. Because its not 30% at all, really it is 43% on top of the the price without VRT. I know this is incredible, but it's true apparantly. FWIW, I nearly died when I saw some of the numbertrs that came out when I calculated my figures earlier.

Ice_Box

the 2008 BMW 118D is 119g/km
so falling from 30% to 12%
current price 35700
new price 30757

Not sure if the final figure is correct

Also VW golf bluemotion 1.9 diesel will go from 30% to 12%

BrianD3

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens.

I notice that in the UK, cars with <100 g/km (eg Polo Bluemotion) pay zero motor tax. Now obviously motor tax both in the UK and here is a pittance for an individual to pay compared to our VRT. The fact that we have VRT and the Brits don't means that we have more scope for encouraging purchase of economical vehicles.

Probabaly fairer to put all tax on the fuel though

hmboards

copacetic wrote: »

your figures don't make sense, you can't just knock 25% off to get the pre vrt price, the post vrt price is 125% of pre price.

so for example your 316 price should be (38300/1.25)x1.2= 36768

while the 318d if (44680/1.3)x1.16 = 39868

a big decrease but no cheaper that the 316

Actually I think he is correct in taking 25% from the retail price. VRT is based on a percentage of the final price including TAX and VRT. See http://www.simi.ie/showcontent.asp?SubsectionID=7

Vehicle Registration Tax is applied ad valorem which means it is applied on a value which includes the tax itself. The value VRT is calculated on is the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP) which is essentially the expected retail price. This means that the real effect of VRT on the price of a vehicle is significantly more than the percentages outlined

Based on this, most of the calculations in this thread are incorrect. Anyone know the correct formula ?

E92

Ice_Box wrote: »

316i is retailing at 37,300
and the current vrt rate is 25%
so the price before vrt is 29,840
I dont know what the co2 figures are but I will guess at its in the 3rd band which is 24%
there for new price will be 37001.
A saving of €299

however the 318D will go from 30% to 16%
assuming with particle filter fitted the rate is 123g/km
but im not sure if the particle filter is fitted in ireland
current price €47,650
new price €42,518
a reduction of €5,132

Ice Box, you've fallen into the trap others have(see my previous post). A car with 30% VRT means that 30% of the car's total price is VRT, not that they found whatever the price was and then slapped a 30% tax on it.

The 316i(BMW don't list it's emissions on their website), but as the 318i is in the 20% band(and at 142 g/km), and the 118i and 116i have only a difference of 1 g/km of CO2, it would be a reasonable guess to say that the 316i falls into the 20% band as well. So the 316i currently retails for €37,300, and is in the 25% VRT band. So 25% of the total price of the car is VRT. So the pre VRT price is €27,975(because its 75% of €37,300). The new price will be €34,969, a reduction of around €2,300.

The pre VRT price of the 318d you mentioned is €33,355.(70% of €47,650). Your figures say it costs €36,654. Look at BMW's Gerrmany(click on "Preisliste BMW 3er Limosine", German for Pricelist of the BMW 3 series saloon ) website shows that the 318d retails for €29,950. Now given that the 318d here retails for €44,600 and the German 318d is the same spec more or less as ours, this would mean that under your system the 318d without VRT would cost €34,308, and it is illegal since 2005(I think) under EU law to have pre tax prices that differ from one state to another(this came about under Block Exemption), using my system gives a pre VRT price of €31,220 which is indeed very close to the German price(although VAT in Germany for cars is 19% and it is 21% here), so adjusting the Irish pre VRT price to match German VAT levels gives us a pre VRT price of €30,704, which is around a difference of just €800(it is impossible to give an exact comparison because we get RHD cars and they get LHD). New VRT price makes it €39,708 or €7,942 cheaper than the current OSMP.

E92

copacetic wrote: »

your figures don't make sense, you can't just knock 25% off to get the pre vrt price, the post vrt price is 125% of pre price.

Please see post number 55, I've gone into quite some detail as to why what I calculated is actually correct.

Ice_Box

hmboards wrote: »

Actually I think he is correct in taking 25% from the retail price. VRT is based on a percentage of the final price including TAX and VRT. See http://www.simi.ie/showcontent.asp?SubsectionID=7

Vehicle Registration Tax is applied ad valorem which means it is applied on a value which includes the tax itself. The value VRT is calculated on is the Open Market Selling Price (OMSP) which is essentially the expected retail price. This means that the real effect of VRT on the price of a vehicle is significantly more than the percentages outlined

Based on this, most of the calculations in this thread are incorrect. Anyone know the correct formula ?

Your guys are right Im doing my sums wrong

smcgiff

Guys,

I put a €1,000 deposit (via Credit Card) last week on a 179g CO2 Alfa 159 TI 2.4 JTDM. Cost of car was €52.9k.

Anybody got the new VRT figures for 179g. It would have been 30% VRT -Have I lost a packet????

Might try to get the Alfa dealer to postpone the build until 2009. I wouldn't fancy buying a new car mid year.

smcgiff

One thing to add here. We've been assuming the purchaser will pick up 100% of the reducion in VRT. I imagine the Car dealers will increase the base cost somewhat.

At the moment Irish ALFA's are discounted quite a bit compared to UK Alfas. Whereas BMW base cost is quite a bit more expensive here than in the UK. So, even at the moment they're not standard across Europe, and I imagine the change in VRT will impact base cost.

hmboards

Ice_Box wrote: »

The way Im doing it seems to match the way simi do it but Im not 100% sure

Aren't you applying the new VRT rate to the pre-VRT price instead of the new RRP though ? The new RRP needs to be worked out in order to calculate the new VRT...

JHMEG

I wouldn't be getting too excited just yet: this is the motor industry, backed by SIMI we're on about, and their greed hasn't been factored in. If the end price winds up say 5% cheaper than now, expect the dealer to happily absorb that.

SIMI have achieved some spectacular results for their members including stuff like this pay-VAT-twice-thing if the car is under 6 months old to make it impossible for Joe Blogs to import a new car.