fifa WC draw

Pigman II

and If we had beaten Germany and Czech home and away we'd have been the best team in Europe.

estebancambias

Yeah obviously teams like Bulgaria and Georgia will be good and well organised, but I don't buy the 'they are better than us''.

DSB

When did people start to consider Georgia as good by the way? Did I miss the newsletter on that 1?

shane86

I think God is some gah loving hater of foreign games, given the hand we have been dealt :eek:

Italy: possible win at home and draw away (remember, we actually play our heart out against world class sides. Its only when we go to the minnows we play crap)
Bulgaria: Unsure
Georgia: Home draw, away loss if we are in our current form. Georgia are a team on the up, payed a blinder against the Scots.
Cyprus: Why oh why again. I can imagine it now, back page of the Sunday World "Exclusive: Robbie vows revenge in Cyprus". A year later when the Cypriots come to visit it will no doubt read "Ireland vow vengence for Nicosia hammering". Cue another mediocre one pointer.
Montenegro: e havent seen them yet, could turn out to be the most talented of the 6th seeders

I wouldnt doubt finishing 4th or 5th And im a guy optimistic enough to proclaim that there was no certainty that the Czechs would win their remaining matches after the game in September and we could take it with some luck.

WTF do we keep drawing the same old teams? Cyprus, Israel and Switzerland have been repeated pains in the hole since the late 90s. Give us England ffs!

Erin Go Brath

DSB wrote: »

No1 will be underestimating anyone I'm sure. There are no particularly poor teams in the group. We just did well enough to get only 1 particularly good team in the group with us. I haven't actually heard anyone say they think we'll cruise to 2nd place. But personally I would see us as favourites for it.

We were fortunate in that a few of the other groups are tougher than ours (effects of strong 2nd seeds). Second place is realistic. I would disagree with you though, Bulgaria are 2nd favourites in my book. We'll need to improve in the next year or so to finish above them

Unearthly

DSB wrote: »

When did people start to consider Georgia as good by the way? Did I miss the newsletter on that 1?

Only need to ask the Scots how much they can screw up a campaign

DSB

Unearthly wrote: »

Only need to ask the Scots how much they can screw up a campaign

Yeah but like they ended up even finishing behind Lithuania. This is an example of the Eastern hype I'm referring to.

estebancambias

Georgia got 10 points in their group, which included two wins against the Faroes.

Unearthly

DSB wrote: »

Yeah but like they ended up even finishing behind Lithuania. This is an example of the Eastern hype I'm referring to.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hyping them up to be world beaters, but at their home ground, if we aren't fully concentrated then they could damage us

DSB

estebancambias wrote: »

Georgia got 10 points in their group, which included two wins against the Faroes.

Case closed. If we'd gotten Macedonia we'd be hearing the same after their win over an already qualified Croatia. People are silly.

Nunu

Does anyone agree with me that we got the toughest teams from Pot 6 / 5 / 4 and 1?

My only point on this is that we got a nightmare group. I still think we will compete but there are too many tough games, especially away from home, for me to believe we can qualify.

And believe me this is very much a new departure for myself - I am an eternal optimist - you only have to look back through my post history on boards to see this:o. This is the first time I've seen a group and thought we won't get more than 20 pts(about the region needed to have a chance)....I really hope I'm proven wrong.

estebancambias

I think we got the hardest of the 6th pot, but it still will not make them difficult to beat. I doubt any other team in the 6th pot has a player like Vucinic so yeah we got the hardest team.

Georgia and Cyprus I will never believe were the worst we could have got.

Italy was the worst.

DSB

Nunu wrote: »

Does anyone agree with me that we got the toughest teams from Pot 6 / 5 / 4 and 1?

Pot 6: Probably. They won't be anywhere near a challenger come the end though.
Pot 5: No way. Iceland, Austria and Slovenia have all been consistently stronger. Who should we be worried about? Iashvili and Arveladze?
Pot 4: Wales, Macedonia and Slovakia are far better. Belarus, Bosnia, Hungary and Lithuania are probably at about the same level.
Pot 1: Hard to say really. Italy are a class act. But I'd probably have preferred them to the Dutch or the Spanish who will probably perform amazing in qualifiers and then not really compete at the main event.

estebancambias

Oh and also Ireland can beat Italy....Columbia beat Argentina...Scotland beat France away.

DSB

estebancambias wrote: »

Oh and also Ireland can beat Italy....Columbia beat Argentina...Scotland beat France away.

Yeah but its the Boards way to only predict upsets if they are against us seemingly.

luckylucky

Nunu wrote: »

Does anyone agree with me that we got the toughest teams from Pot 6 / 5 / 4 and 1?

My only point on this is that we got a nightmare group. I still think we will compete but there are too many tough games, especially away from home, for me to believe we can qualify.

And believe me this is very much a new departure for myself - I am an eternal optimist - you only have to look back through my post history on boards to see this:o. This is the first time I've seen a group and thought we won't get more than 20 pts(about the region needed to have a chance)....I really hope I'm proven wrong.

Cyrprus the worst we could have got from pot 4, lmfao. Yeah so they put the kibosh on us recently, that's more down to our recent crapness.

Montenegro i think are without doubrt the best from Pot 6. and Georgia are probably one of the best teams, though I don't think the best from pot 5.

I think Bulgaria are without doubt better than us at the minute and I agree with Erin go brath that they are defo favs for 2nd spot, but they are still one of the weakest teams from Pot 2.

So really if we get our act together and it's a big big if granted, considering we should only be realistically fearing teams from pot 2 and pot 4 we got off very lightly imo.

Also Georgia and montengero mare jsut as likely to cause problems for our Group rivals for ruinners up spot i.e. Bulgaria and Cyprus.

estebancambias

This song is the biggest lie since the neverending story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqRP6ZBI5nM

copacetic

Nunu wrote: »

Does anyone agree with me that we got the toughest teams from Pot 6 / 5 / 4 and 1?

My only point on this is that we got a nightmare group. I still think we will compete but there are too many tough games, especially away from home, for me to believe we can qualify.

And believe me this is very much a new departure for myself - I am an eternal optimist - you only have to look back through my post history on boards to see this:o. This is the first time I've seen a group and thought we won't get more than 20 pts(about the region needed to have a chance)....I really hope I'm proven wrong.

no, we got the second easiest group of the 3rd seeds imo. whether we will do well is another thing but I really can't understand how anyone thinks we could have hoped for a realistically better draw.

The Volt

e)
The contingent of optimists who feel that things can only improve. We will beat Montenegro, Georgia and Cyprus this time around at home. A strong performance should see us beat Bulgaria and we can raise our game to take at least a draw from Italy, Scotland made them look pretty damn average. Away from home, if we can cut out the late goals that we concede then we'll be okay. It is at the end of the day down to organisation, I think it suits us to be underdogs as well.

Nunu

luckylucky wrote: »

Cyrprus the worst we could have got from pot 4, lmfao. Yeah so they put the kibosh on us recently, that's more down to our recent crapness.

Montenegro i think are without doubrt the best from Pot 6. and Georgia are probably one of the best teams, though I don't think the best from pot 5.

I think Bulgaria are without doubt better than us at the minute and I agree with Erin go brath that they are defo favs for 2nd spot, but they are still one of the weakest teams from Pot 2.

So really if we get our act together and it's a big big if granted, considering we should only be realistically fearing teams from pot 2 and pot 4 we got off very lightly imo.

Also Georgia and montengero mare jsut as likely to cause problems for our Group rivals for ruinners up spot i.e. Bulgaria and Cyprus.

That's my main reasoning why for us they are the toughest team we could have got from that pot. We just don't know how to play them and they hold no fear of us. All the other teams in that pot would have a certain fear of us, but definitely not the cypriots.

Pigman II

estebancambias wrote: »

This song is the biggest lie since the neverending story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqRP6ZBI5nM

Agreed. Brazils national stadium doesn't look anything like a fat little Argentinian.

Erin Go Brath

copacetic wrote: »

no, we got the second easiest group of the 3rd seeds imo. whether we will do well is another thing but I really can't understand how anyone thinks we could have hoped for a realistically better draw.

I concur with that. Only the group with Greece and Israel is easier.

DSB

As was pointed out loads around the time of the second game, Cyprus were just better organised than us. If they go up against an organised Ireland trying for a win they'll probably get trounced.

shane86

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro_national_football_team

Bollix. Montenegro have only existed for five minutes and they are getting away results the other 6th seeders could only dream about (not great teams mind but still, what are the chances of the Faroes or San Marino beating Estonia away?)

Hmm, looking at the table its not impossible that the Scots will get to a play off. Somebody to cheer on I guess.

estebancambias

Hungary are an awful team.

DSB

Vucinic alone though probably means they're that slight bit better than your average 6th seed team.

estebancambias

They have another good player as well....the rest are just journeymen.

They are probably a 5th seed team. He is also a striker, I doubt without the service he will do too much harm.

DSB

Agreed.

ROCKMAN

Have to say happy enough with the draw , Topping this group is not completely out of the question, A very hard ask but not impossible , Who ever is send to the fixtures meeting is very important (a very strong person ) and should be send with on two big demands/ goals

1 To get the away fixture to Italy as near the start of the group as possible 1st game would be ideal. (Italy are slow starters in groups )

2. And the home leg (Italy) second or last game.
leaves us with the chance to put together a good run of results . between the two big big games.

After saying this I think second place is our best hope and the play offs again

luckylucky

Nunu wrote: »

That's my main reasoning why for us they are the toughest team we could have got from that pot. We just don't know how to play them and they hold no fear of us. All the other teams in that pot would have a certain fear of us, but definitely not the cypriots.

I don't think we would be particularly feared by any of the teams from pot 4, well no more than any other team in pot 3 anyway. But yeah I guess Cypress in particular will be happy to get us.

I don't think it's at all a bad group though but I don't think anyone here would argue that we don't need serious improvement to even be a serious challenger for 2nd spot, hopefully the next manager will sort that out, only time will tell, i'm neither overly optimistic or pessimistic about that.

Nunu

One good thing about getting Montenegro - I am certain that they will pick up a handful of points in this group and definetly cause at least 1 upset over their 10 games - I dread it being against us. They won't be like a San Marino were everyone else beats them home and away and end up pointless. So, if we can pick up 6 pts against them we will steal a march on whatever team(s) that slip up agianst them.

It sounds ridiculous considering they are a minnow, but the 2 games against them are crucial, much more than all other games against bottom seeds that have gone before.

ps: any country that can boast the mercurial Dejan Savicevic as one of their own has to be respected:D...what a player that guy was!

Big Ears

Have people just assumed that because there are 9 groups and 8 European play-off spots that the worst runner-up is discarded . There are Inter-Continental play-off spots, after all who did we beat in a play-off to qualify for the 2002 World Cup ?

DSB

Did that happen again in 2006 though? If so who was that between?

luckylucky

Nunu wrote: »

One good thing about getting Montenegro - I am certain that they will pick up a handful of points in this group and definetly cause at least 1 upset over their 10 games - I dread it being against us. They won't be like a San Marino were everyone else beats them home and away and end up pointless. So, if we can pick up 6 pts against them we will steal a march on whatever team(s) that slip up agianst them.

It sounds ridiculous considering they are a minnow, but the 2 games against them are crucial, much more than all other games against bottom seeds that have gone before.

ps: any country that can boast the mercurial Dejan Savicevic as one of their own has to be respected:D...what a player that guy was!

Another really good thing about Montenegro is it's actually a very scenic country, I had my honeymoon there, I did hear the capital Podorica(I think)was a bit boring but I didn't get there.

ROCKMAN

Edit I Was Wrong With Format

estebancambias

We beat Iran. 2-0, and a defeat away I think.

leninbenjamin

Big Ears wrote: »

Have people just assumed that because there are 9 groups and 8 European play-off spots that the worst runner-up is discarded . There are Inter-Continental play-off spots, after all who did we beat in a play-off to qualify for the 2002 World Cup ?

have people just assumed that the method of qualifications stays the same for each World Cup? looks like it.

the qualification format is pretty much different for every World Cup qualification campaign these days.

smackbunnybaby

with regard to the best runners up, aren't the team 2nd in the 5 man group at a disadvantage only playing 8 games versus the other groups runners up 10 matches.

are the matches against the bottom team disregarded at the end?

Necronomicon

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

with regard to the best runners up, aren't the team 2nd in the 5 man group at a disadvantage only playing 8 games versus the other groups runners up 10 matches.

are the matches against the bottom team disregarded at the end?

Yep I was just checking that as well. From Wiki:

"In determining the rank of second-placed teams, only results against those finishing 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th will be counted for consistency between the five and six team groups."

Mr.Nice Guy

Got this from Wikipedia:

Eight groups of six teams and one group of five will contest the European qualifying competition for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. The nine group-winners will qualify directly, while the highest ranked eight of the nine second-placed teams will contest home and away play-off matches for the remaining four places. In determining the rank of second-placed teams, only results against those finishing 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th will be counted for consistency between the five and six team groups.

My thoughts on our group is that while it's certainly tricky, it could have been a lot worse. I expect us to be competitive and to give Italy a run for their money but I see the Italians taking the first spot. I believe Ireland's home form will be a big advantage and I can see us taking the second spot and going into the play-offs.

Don't lose heart!

Pigman II

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I expect us to be competitive and to give Italy a run for their money

Yeah I'll have two of whatever he's taking.

Mr. Presentable

The winners of each European group will qualify for the World Cup finals and the best eight runners-up play off for four more qualifying berths. Total 13

leninbenjamin

Pigman II wrote: »

Yeah I'll have two of whatever he's taking.

our problem is not not challenging the big teams, it's not winning against the little teams.

ROCKMAN

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

with regard to the best runners up, aren't the team 2nd in the 5 man group at a disadvantage only playing 8 games versus the other groups runners up 10 matches.

are the matches against the bottom team disregarded at the end?

Format
Eight groups of six teams and one group of five will contest the European qualifying competition for the 2010 FIFA World Cup. The nine group-winners will qualify directly, while the highest ranked eight of the nine second-placed teams will contest home and away play-off matches for the remaining four places. In determining the rank of second-placed teams, only results against those finishing 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th will be counted for consistency between the five and six team groups.[4]

so yes bottom team results disgearded

Pigman II

leninbenjamin wrote: »

our problem is not not challenging the big teams, it's not winning against the little teams.

Two points out of 12 against the big teams.

Nine points out of 18 against the little teams (I'm not even gonna count San Marino as an entity).

I'd say we have problems across the board.

Mr.Nice Guy

Pigman II wrote: »

Two points out of 12 against the big teams.

Nine points out of 18 against the little teams (I'm not even gonna count San Marino as an entity).

I'd say we have problems across the board.

Our problem was being managed by an inexperienced donkey. A problem that has since been removed.

The last tournament we reached we managed to get results against the Dutch and Portuguese when few gave us a prayer. Norn Iron recently managed to upset the Spaniards. The Scots surprised the French.

It's a distinct possibility that we could get one over on the Italians. We've surprised them before. 1994 anyone?

Pigman II

Anyone ever get the feeling we're increasingly becoming distinctly like England in that instead of seeing where we are and what's in front of us we instead forever live on out past glories? Hey we did the business against Holland and Portugal SIX years ago. Therefore we can do it again.

What evidence have you for this optimism?

Nunu

Big Ears wrote: »

Have people just assumed that because there are 9 groups and 8 European play-off spots that the worst runner-up is discarded . There are Inter-Continental play-off spots, after all who did we beat in a play-off to qualify for the 2002 World Cup ?

Yes...and we assume correctly.

How could it be fair for the worst runner up to play a team from Asia/Oceania/etc. when the other european runners up, who have picked up more points, have to play each other?

13 european teams qualify the worst runner up is out.

Unearthly

Pigman II wrote: »

Anyone ever get the feeling we're increasingly becoming distinctly like England in that instead of seeing where we are and what's in front of us we instead forever live on out past glories? Hey we did the business against Holland and Portugal SIX years ago. Therefore we can do it again.

What evidence have you for this optimism?

Hope that we get a good manager?

Although with Venables odds on favourite to get it that optimism should be dead and buried.

Mr.Nice Guy

Pigman II wrote: »

Anyone ever get the feeling we're increasingly becoming distinctly like England in that instead of seeing where we are and what's in front of us we instead forever live on out past glories? Hey we did the business against Holland and Portugal SIX years ago. Therefore we can do it again.

What evidence have you for this optimism?

England's past glory was 41 years ago. Don't think we're anywhere near as bad.

The evidence for the optimism is that we have players more talented than those of our neighbours who have managed to spring big upsets. Our players work hard but they've been managed by a guy who was out of his depth. If we get the right manager we can be optimistic. Look at what Sanchez and Mcleish did for NI and the Scots.

Why such cynicism? We've been in worse predicaments.