European Commission: Traditional Rituals not same as religious rituals

daveirl

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Zillah

I wish I was made benevolent dictator of the universe. I'd fix shit like this.

Dades

Zillah wrote: »

I wish I was made benevolent dictator of the universe. I'd fix shit like this.

What would you fix? "Jellied bits of head, pork cabbage rolls with polenta, blood sausages"?

Me too. I mean what's wrong with a nice fry, ffs.

Pompey Magnus

If the devout don't want to eat animals which haven't suffered extreme pain and fear whilst being killed then I say f*ck them and their traditions and let them eat vegetables instead.

It is like as was pointed out by Hitchens in "God is not Great" how in our society if an adult man puts a baby boy's penis in his mouth and sucks on it it is considered to be completely disgusting and vile act, but call if you call it metzitzah b'peh and say it is an ancient Jewish circumcision ritual then it is alright and do not dare speak out against it because it is their tradition and religion (even though it has led to the death of some babies and infection of others with genital herpes from the circumcisor's mouth).

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

o.0

they don't actually put the babies dick in the rabbis mouth do they?

Pompey Magnus

Mordeth wrote: »

o.0

they don't actually put the babies dick in the rabbis mouth do they?

Yep, apparently the directions for "oral suction" are given in the Talmud. The Rabbi just pops the penis in his mouth and sucks away whilst the bleeding persists. It isn't a very common practice but it is legal and does happen.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

.....

Good god.

Dave!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah#Metzitzah

!!!!!!!!!

daveirl

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Zombrex

DaveMcG wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah#Metzitzah

!!!!!!!!!

"although the practice has been implicated in the spreading of herpes to the infant."

LOL ROFL :D:D:D

I shouldn't laugh but that sh*t is just f**ked up

Zillah

That just...weird...

Even if a Rabbi did get his jollies from that sort of thing...you'd think the whole bleeding open would thing would kinda ruin the experience.

*shudders*

Humans are ridiculous tbh.

Bottle_of_Smoke

whoa, how have they kept this quiet!? Herpes can be life threatening to babies.

condra

Thats the first Ive heard of it, and that is truly gross and perverse.

Zombrex

womoma wrote: »

Thats the first Ive heard of it, and that is truly gross and perverse.

I would like to suck off your bleeding baby

No! That is sick and disgusting

God told me to

Oh right, ok. In that case, would you like some cookies with that

Call this an unfair generalization, but religious people are nuts

Asiaprod

daveirl wrote: »

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Very good question. I vote to circumcise Carmen first.
Seriously, I am amazed by that revelation, who would have thought.

Red Hand

I don't know whether to laugh or be sick.

Pompey Magnus

It is a disgusting ritual and it just goes to show how otherwise loving parents are brain washed by religion into thinking such things are good and proper.

Christopher Hitchens brought attention to the practice after a child died of type-1 herpes and another suffered brain damage as a result of the procedure in New York. He was particularly scathing of the reaction of mayor Bloomberg who issued a public statement saying: "it is not the government's business to tell people how to practice their religion." I mean children are dying and being seriously injured but because God said it is alright the practice is allowed.

Rev Hellfire

Won't someone think of the children ?

Its quite a leap to equate (male) circumcision with abuse which is quite common in the US outside of the Jewish population.

While the practice of stemming the blood flow orally may seem odd to us coming from a largely Christian inspired moral framework it is in many ways no different than if the rabbi had cut the child's finger and sucked that to stem the blood flow.

Zombrex

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

it is in many ways no different than if the rabbi had cut the child's finger and sucked that to stem the blood flow.

that is pretty f**ked up too

daveirl

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Dades

daveirl wrote: »

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Except circumcision in the US is genital mutilation in the same way getting your tonsils out is oral mutilation. i.e. A standard procedure.

It the stemming of the blood which is the issue - and I suspect very scarcely practised the weird way.

Rev Hellfire

daveirl wrote: »

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I tied it to male circumcision for a particular reason, female circumventions is abuse in no uncertain terms. The same is not true for male circumcision which has positive benefits, particularity in hot environments.

Or perhaps its because its a penis and that suits uncomfortably with the Christian inspired morals and the associated baggage it brings which dominates European thinking (even in the atheist circles). Just my opinion mind you and I'm as guilty as the next man to falling prey to social conditioning.

Pompey Magnus

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

While the practice of stemming the blood flow orally may seem odd to us coming from a largely Christian inspired moral framework it is in many ways no different than if the rabbi had cut the child's finger and sucked that to stem the blood flow.

Sorry but they are completely different situations. Firstly this is an intentionally inflicted injury on the child, completely unneccesary and done without the consent of the child, if Jewish men want to be circumcised then do it when they are old enough to make the decision themselves. Secondly I also would also not allow a stranger to suck the blood from a cut on my childs finger.

You say "Won't someone think of the children ?" in a manner to imply that this is another minor issue being blown out of all proportion by bleeding heart liberals who have nothing better to do, but in this case if children are being put in harms way because of some bronze age ritual then I feel that it is very appropriate to speak out. It is on a par with parents denying their children blood transfusions because their warped religion says it is a sin. If the parents want to refuse it for themselves then fair enough, I won't shed any tears when they die, but I find it disgraceful that children are suffering because of the parents beliefs.

Rev Hellfire

Circumcision is typically done for the benefit of the child, a benefit that is accepted by the WHO for example.
This is no different that the vaccination I also received as a child which has left a permanent scar on my left shoulder.
Would you suggest that I should not have received said inoculation until such time as I was old enough to understand the benefits and associated risks that come with such things.

daveirl

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Rev Hellfire

daveirl wrote: »

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for example.

daveirl wrote: »

Both reduce sensitivity and enjoyment of intercourse

Perhaps you’d care to share your evidence that sexual satisfaction is reduced for either party when performed by a circumcised male? Strangely I recall hearing the reverse.

daveirl wrote: »

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Thats nice, but since it was the best available at the time for my parents I have no issue with it. But it still remains the correct thing to do regardless of the scaring. Do you think they should have waitted until a better solution presented itself ?


We are in danger of derailing this thread so I'll bow out knowing that I'm totally in the right

Pompey Magnus

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Perhaps you’d care to share your evidence that sexual satisfaction is reduced for either party when performed by a circumcised male? Strangely I recall hearing the reverse.

I also heard that it reduces the experience during sex, I think the explanation is that the constant contact of the exposed penis against clothing causes the nerve endings there to dull and become less sensitive.

daveirl

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Dades

Okay, maybe for once we'll try and keep on topic. Suffice to say there are two sides to the circumcision argument, and it is no longer just a religious practice - but a medical one. By all means someone start a new thread if they want. It's a slow week.

The OP was to do with procedures that would be illegal, if not carried as part of a religious ritual.

ps I've still got mine.

DapperGent

How are you supposed to have a proper shake without one?

Zillah

Granted, its absurdly off topic...but I have wondered that previously...