Big 4 accounting firms

missff

Hi im graduating this year and have received offers from all 4 to start in october...having trouble picking one does anyone have any advice?

Triple A

I graduated in 1999 and was offered places by some of the big four. I chose to turn them all down and go into a small/medium sized practice where i progressed quicker than some of the people in my class who did go to the Big 4.

I also know from friends that your first year or so is quite boring (i.e. lost of photocopying etc).

This is a personal view but also another option for you to consider.........

missff

thanks for that,
ive been given that point of view from family who did a simialr thing to you but ive already decided that id prefer to try them anyway...have you heard anything good/bad from the people you know who worked in them about each particular one??

Oafley Jones

This year I remember that some (if not all) of the Big 4 were recruiting extra staff in January or February, do you think they will do this again next year?

Triple A

missff wrote: »

thanks for that,
ive been given that point of view from family who did a simialr thing to you but ive already decided that id prefer to try them anyway...have you heard anything good/bad from the people you know who worked in them about each particular one??

I know 2 currently in kpmg. One a former classmate who has broke through and become a Tax Senior. It was a lot of hard work getting there but well worth it according to him. The money wasnt great for the first 3 years (but starting out its not great anywhere to be fair).

Another, is a cousin of mine who started a 6 weeks ago. According to her she is an expert photocopier!!! Unfortunately this would be the norm in a big firm like this.

Another girl i know works in PWC. she had similar experiences as above. But she was based in Dublin and wanted to move to Waterford and they accomodated her without quarrell. she loves it there!

They are all very good organisations to work in and will look fabulous on a CV. But if you want to do well in them be prepared to work very hard (for very little reward initially).

The main advantage of a smaller practice is that you will be exposed to a lot more a lot quicker. You should progress faster and salary rise quicker. And 10-14 hour days would be the exception not the norm.

chump

Triple A wrote: »

I know 2 currently in kpmg. One a former classmate who has broke through and become a Tax Senior. It was a lot of hard work getting there but well worth it according to him. The money wasnt great for the first 3 years (but starting out its not great anywhere to be fair).

Another, is a cousin of mine who started a 6 weeks ago. According to her she is an expert photocopier!!! Unfortunately this would be the norm in a big firm like this.

Another girl i know works in PWC. she had similar experiences as above. But she was based in Dublin and wanted to move to Waterford and they accomodated her without quarrell. she loves it there!

They are all very good organisations to work in and will look fabulous on a CV. But if you want to do well in them be prepared to work very hard (for very little reward initially).

The main advantage of a smaller practice is that you will be exposed to a lot more a lot quicker. You should progress faster and salary rise quicker. And 10-14 hour days would be the exception not the norm.

Photocopying lark completely overstated if my experience is anything to go by.

I'd say I spent next to no time photocopying in year 1, and even less after the 1st year.
You'll be exposed to a HUGE amount over your 4 years in a big4. Try big, small and medium firms. Irish companies, uk companies, european companies, sec registered us companies. You'll evenuallly audit the entire financial statements of companies, which will mean you'll have to know every facet of the company.

Progression is set within the big4, junior, semi-senior, senior, qual senior etc. so progression is guaranteed. As is a jump in salary from 25k euro to 50k within 3-4 years.

Big4 also pay overtime for every hour work over your set shift.
They also offer enormous study leave packages (although a lot is leave in leiu based on overtime)

One piece of advice: IMO Ignore the advice to stay away from the big4. No one with more than half a head would tell you to turn down an offer for the big four if you want to audit. Particularly if the alternative is to audit for a small firm.

shaykelly

you should definately consider the top 4, i mean its only for 3.5 yrs and then you have a brand name on your cv !!

missff

i am definately taking one of the big 4...saying no to the 4 offers is definately not an option for me...what im looking for is advice on which one to choose...and think im leaning towards ey or kpmg both in cork!

tywy

Go with KPMG then, EY are falling apart in Ireland. From what I hear, they nearly lost the franchise in Ireland.

crapmanjoe

tywy wrote: »

Go with KPMG then, EY are falling apart in Ireland. From what I hear, they nearly lost the franchise in Ireland.

Have you (or any one else for that matter) any evidence of your quote above (links to stories,etc, etc). Not being defensive here but have read a few similar comments but nobody could prouduce any proof

I work in EY so obviously they paint a rosy picture but for Yr Sept 07

The audit business was up 20%, the Risk business was up 22% (market leader in Ireland) and the tax business was up 18%

Hardly sounds like falling apart to me

tywy

As I said, it's just from what I hear from different people who work in business. Was recommeneded against them and heard they'd lost some significant clients, that's all...

Leon11

I've heard that from people involved in the big 4 about E&Y alright. Aren't the English group taking over?

chump

crapmanjoe wrote: »

The audit business was up 20%, the Risk business was up 22% (market leader in Ireland) and the tax business was up 18%

Hardly sounds like falling apart to me

Those figures for ireland?
Last year they had the lowest big4 growth figures in ireland by a way.

I've also heard negative sentiment regarding them.

from irish times

Monday, November 6, 2006

It was another buoyant year for accountancy firms, with fee incomes growing at an annual rate of almost 18 per cent, according to Finance magazine's annual survey of accountancy firms.

A poll of 21 top accountancy firms shows that fee incomes stand at €903 million in 2006, compared with €766 million last year. But the rate of growth in fee income has slowed down on 2005, when fee incomes grew by 20 per cent.

The "big four" accountancy firms - KPMG, PricewaterhouseCoopers, Deloitte and Ernst & Young - have seen their share of total fee income fall from 75.7 per cent to 73.5 per cent.

The growth rate in fee income at the four companies, which earned €663 million out of the total €903 million, has fallen behind the rest of the sector, with average growth of 14.2 per cent.

Only KMPG, the top earning firm, recorded higher than average growth.

Its 20 per cent increase in fee income to €211 million meant it overtook PricewaterhouseCoopers, which was ranked second with fee income of €210 million, an increase of 16 per cent.

It was not such a good year for the third and fourth-placed firms. Deloitte grew its fee income by 10 per cent to €125 million, while Ernst & Young saw its fee income increase by just 6.4 per cent to €117 million. This means Deloitte has lengthened the gap between itself and Ernst & Young.

Meanwhile, acquisitions are driving growth among mid-tier firms, Finance comments.

The best performer in the last financial year was Moore Stephens, which saw its fee income almost double from €4.2 million to €7.9 million following the inclusion of Limerick-based firm McNamara and Associates in its network.

Farrell Grant Sparks also registered impressive growth last year, with its fee income leaping from €14.8 million to €26.8 million, following its merger with McClure Watters in Northern Ireland and Longford-based firm Lyons Keenan Kilemade.

The fastest mover in terms of organic growth was Grant Thornton, which grew its business by almost 43 per cent.
© 2006 The Irish Times

if your growth figures are correct they have really bounced back

the1andonly1

Well they recorded the second largest growth this year, behind KPMG

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011353.shtml

chump

the1andonly1 wrote: »

Well they recorded the second largest growth this year, behind KPMG

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_1011353.shtml

very good.
I've nothing against e&y by the by

Cantoris

I will start this post by saying it is my view only, back up only by ehat I heard.

I was approached wo work for E&Y and spun the yarn that partnership would be three years away. I did a little digging and asking around and found that certain parts of the business were in a state of chaos. This came from employees, former employees and clients. I understand they were trying to beef up the younger partnership bracket as the average partner age had pushed on a bit. I didn't take the position. I heard earlier this year that the UK firm was brought in to help admisiter the Irish business. This will never get reported as it would be a killer to the Irish practice. No firm is perfect, E&Y just seem to have struggled with expansion and trying to meet the extra workload. Staff retention is a definitie issue.

As I said, personal views only.

dudara

My understanding is that E&Y Ireland is now part of E&Y UK. A friend, who is a director in E&Y regularly travels to London for meetings.

Generally, there's not much to choose from between the Big 4. You should think back to the interviews and which company gave off the best vibes to work for. Deloitte and KPMG have both featured in the Best Places to Work awards (Deloitte for the last 5, and KPMG in the last year) so their staff obviously think well of them.

Running Bing

dudara wrote: »

My understanding is that E&Y Ireland is now part of E&Y UK. A friend, who is a director in E&Y regularly travels to London for meetings.

Generally, there's not much to choose from between the Big 4. You should think back to the interviews and which company gave off the best vibes to work for. Deloitte and KPMG have both featured in the Best Places to Work awards (Deloitte for the last 5, and KPMG in the last year) so their staff obviously think well of them.

You have to be careful with those things dudara because some of them are voted for by students.:eek:


Not sure if the one your thinking of was actually voted for by employees but I know some of them just ask students who they think is the best place to work for which makes them absolutely useless imo:rolleyes:

dudara

The award I'm talking about is actually voted for by the employees. (The Best Companies to Work For Awards). I was recently selected to take part in the assessment for my company.

I think I know the survey that you're thinking of. It was on Generation Y and was in the Irish Time a month or two ago.

Running Bing

dudara wrote: »

The award I'm talking about is actually voted for by the employees. (The Best Companies to Work For Awards). I was recently selected to take part in the assessment for my company.

I think I know the survey that you're thinking of. It was on Generation Y and was in the Irish Time a month or two ago.

Thats pretty good then. Cheers dudara:)

commercegrad07

Babybing wrote: »

Thats pretty good then. Cheers dudara:)

but are these work awards only awarded if your enter them? i remember being told at a pwc presentation that the only reason they didnt have these awards was because they did not put themselves forward..
just after going through the whole thing myself and picked deloitte.. it was a coin toss really, although now that you say it i had been warned away from ey.. also felt they were the least professional in terms of presentation etc

dudara

You are right, the firms pay to enter the awards scheme, but after that the results are determined from the employee surveys.

kkallstar

I can't sit back and listen to all this rubbish being spouted about Ernst and Young falling apart, not only in this thread but another one too. I work in EY and I know people are thinking already that i'm only defending them because I work here and am anti the other big 4, but i'm not.

Someone has to put a stop to all these hear say arguments being presented by other posts. As far as I can see with our integration with EY UK, they are the ones in trouble and not us! As quoted in another post, we had the second highest growth among the big 4 behind KPMG in Ireland last year FACT!

Someone else has said that we have lost a load of clients! Not true again! New independence rules introduced after the ENRON collapse have forced accounting firms to change their practices. In EY this has meant that we may have lost the audit of a couple of large companies but still perform other services for them like advisory and/or tax compliance. I'm a tax trainee and can confirm we have not lost clients, we have gained clients!

People who come on these boards and post comments like "steer clear from EY" and "they are falling apart" should really get their facts straight. At the end of the day it's your decision who you choose, personally i have no problem with KPMG or Deloitte, have always heard good things about them and know plenty of people who work there. If you want to go and work for the faceless monster that is PwC, then that is your choice too. Just don't immediately put EY out of your head based on other posts here.

I have really enjoyed my 2 years here and can safely say that is the same viewpoint of the majority of other trainees here. Everybody is not going to be 100% happy, can every trainee in the other big 4 firms say they are 100% happy with where they work??? Best of luck with your decision

aintnosunshine

Ok i've only found found this thread so the topic may be dead but anywho.. i've gone through the milk round and was offered all four my impresions of the big 4 are

KPMG they are gonna work you to the bone but also train u very well and give u the best study leave so if u don't get u're almost guaranteed to get ur FAE's if u do anything at all. the interview can be nerve wrecking 2 different people saying the same thing and that business exercise i was worked up over nothing. Also Gold card for Coppers how bad

PWC seems to have every D4 in the City knocking on their shine new windows trying to get in there is gonna be a large Ucd group in there.. they seem to be very uptight and slightly anti Country people.. Don't plan on sport being ur selling point in their interview.. although their new building is pretty damn cool and they did give us a 3 course meal...


Deloitte came across as the fun place to work.. at the information evening they had a chocolate and were the only company that played any kind of lively music.. they seem to treat their staff very well.. sport is a huge selling point in Deloitte if u get whatever interviewer that likes Gaa in there you are away with it i know a guy who was still talking to after the lift came and left without him in it..

Ernst and YOung seems to be the company that has a little bit of everything they're not fantastic at anything but good everything.. no unique selling point really stood out for me anyway (someone might fill me in) i also thought it was kinda strange that they do not publish there clients names as freely as the other 3.. but once agian free into Coppers!!

i didnt do the BDO interview but i hear that alot of my friends were very impressed

now all i need to do is get my grades up to get into smurfit

notlongleft

i know this thread is a while dead but i feel the need to reply. I currently work in EY and it is falling apart quickly - nobody know s what s going on - recruitment freeze on rumours of job cuts - no more regional office - place is just a total and utter mess. Someone stated before it was great place to work - wonder what dept they are in - i work in audit and apart from one manager and director i do not know a SINGLE PERSON THAT WOULD RECOMMEND EY TO WORK IN OR FOR A CLIENT TO EMPLOY. stay away is my recommendation its horrendous - my contract is ticking down so i m nearly out thank god;)

Dave 2008

As a matter of interest notlongleft do you work in ICT audit or FSG audit? I would be very surprised if there was a recruitment freeze in FSG audit considering the turnover of qualified senior (and indeed non-qualified) staff.

Why do you think EY is doing so poorly? Grown too quickly? Their other non audit departments are not as bad IMHO.

notlongleft

dave2008 - there is currently a recruitment freeze on due to the restructuring in place - let me put it this way - 25% of the qualified staff in my dept have left and although they all had jobs to stay for - none of them are being replaced. I think so poorly of EY because i work there and they do not treat their staff well. I can only speak for the audit dept altough i know mostpeople in the tax dept have quite the same view.

Anyway not going to get into a slanging match here - was just putting my point across.

Dave 2008

Fair play. I know how you feel.

My comment re: the other departments being better was relative to the audit side which is not the best.