Irish Integration-is it possible?

sovtek

segaBOY wrote: »

Please give me some examples, with all due respect Sovtek you really don't have an idea of what you are talking about, you are obviously biased because you are an immigrant yourelf,

Which is it? Am I biased because I'm an immigrant (therefore I know what I'm talking about) or I don't have any idea?
So far you've managed to only refute my figure for a work permit, which was an obvious mistake. Otherwise you haven't refuted my argument at all which would suggest you need to loose the ignorance et al accusations. Maybe you should actually listen to an immigrant. You might get a sense of what it's really like and see how your government is shafting us.

I never even suggested that immigrants are here as "chattel slaves", that really is slander I suggest you withdraw such a strong unture comment, read over my posts for God's sake, where did I use that term or imply such a thing? You are really putting words in my mouth. All I said was get your facts right with regard the 5K comment.

I will withdraw nothing. What else could one deduce from your comeback to my statement about what Lenihan is doing to immigrants:

Believe it or not we are facing into an economic downturn-when this happens an oversupplied labour market with immigrants willing to work for lower wages will create large unemployment among the indigenous population, the labour market must be controlled in some way shape or form especially since Ireland has opened up their labour market to the EU (well most of it)-we need some control hence tighter labour restrictions for non-EU workers

ie...we need to get rid of some of them otherwise they're "tikin ar jahbs"
So the EU owes you something now because you opened up your labour market to them? Ireland was the needy one here and the EU opened up their market to you and gave you billions in subsidies to upgrade your infrastructure...with questionable results...for the last 30 years or so. Now you restrict the new EU members from coming and working in Ireland. Did any of the other EU countries do that to Ireland when you joined? Seems to me Ireland got the better end of that deal. Especially considering how the EU defers to Ireland when it breaks EU law...ie refusing EU spouses residency...VRT, corporate tax.

sovtek

segaBOY wrote: »

It is not against EU law, if you entered Ireland illegally and then tried to gain residancy because you marry an EU national you will be deported because you broke Irish immigration law first day-NOT because you are marrying an EU national!

Actually on this you aren't completely right either. It's possible to be given residency if the marriage is not one of convenience...ie you didn't get married to escape deportation. That's actually stated in the Kumar case.

djpbarry

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The PC brigade telling them they are Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc does not help ...

Why would the "PC brigade" go around pointing out peoples' race to them? Surely the opposite is true, no?

Munya

sovtek wrote: »

That's why no one is prosecuted for breaking immigration law.

Then that should be changed. Illegally entering a country should be considered a crime such as any other crime.

sovtek wrote: »

Besides would you really want tens of thousands of Rush Limbaugh fans with Boston accents running around Ireland?

I don't know who that is

sovtek

Munya wrote: »

Then that should be changed. Illegally entering a country should be considered a crime such as any other crime.

I don't know who that is

Do you believe Lenihan is a criminal and should also be arrested for breaking EU law?
No it should first have the checks and balances that any other type of law has. Then we can talk about if it is criminal or not...I would personally argue that it isn't.

sovtek

I don't know who that is

Meet Rush

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html

mike4819

Possible? Why should it even be necessary? After centuries of bloodshed, sacrifice, and suffering, To finally become an independent nation(one of the worlds smallest) and then, because of E.U. one world policies, to be forced to become a human dumping ground, Wow! how unjust is that?
Why can't the Irish People just have their own country, their own unspoiled culture, and be gratefully left out of the grandiose plans of the "one world" behind the scenes string pulling crowd?
If only a true hero like Collins could emerge in Irish politics, instead of the currant crop of gutless, yes-men.

God Bless Ireland and her people.

oscarBravo

mike4819 wrote: »

Why can't the Irish People just have their own country, their own unspoiled culture...

There'll be comely maidens dancing at the crossroads in a minute.

Greenman

Irish Integration-is it possible?

I think it is only possible if the people coming to Ireland want to intergrate.
I hope the people of Ireland and all the PC brigade won't change to fit in with foreigners culture. Like this business of taking cribs away from hospital entrances as they might offend people of another religion, that sort of stuff makes my blood boil, if these people are offended well tough they can always go back to where they came from.
If you come to Ireland try and fit in and keep out of trouble.
I'm Irishman here in Belgium and happy to be the only Paddy in my area. As a foreigner I follow the rules and don't rock the boat and don't expect the locals to change for me.
Ah well it works for me.

mike4819

oscarBravo wrote: »

There'll be comely maidens dancing at the crossroads in a minute.

Sounds kinda nice actually. Certainly nicer than, gypsy beggars, nigerian sex offenders and east european felons.

Oh my what have I said! I must be a (horror of horrors!) a... a... a

RACIST!!!!!

oscarBravo

That's certainly the impression I'm getting. Unless, of course, you're willing to acknowledge that the vast, vast majority of nigerians are not sex offenders, or east europeans felons.

I recommend that you clarify your stance in your next post.

IamBeowulf

I really wish people didn't have such a rose-tinted view on our own culture, past and present. Whilst the majority of Irish who emigrated to America ere decent, hard-working people, there was still a vast amount involved in gangland activity. The Irish Mafia stood tall and proud and left a permanent mark on America, yet we choose to believe that we were model citizens who had to fight to live over there.

Now, the tables have turned. Foreigners move into our safer, friendlier culture---except it's not so friendly. Turns out we're racist xenophobes who look down our noses (a snobbery enhanced by the so called Celtic Tiger) at anyone of foreign origin. We believe that all of them scab off our welfare system. That they are a scourge of our society and should be scorned.

Well here's a truth: many of our own depend on the dole with no plan to change their ways. Many have fallen hard on drug habits, and turn to violent means to feed their dependancy. In fact the high intake of drugs in society has attracted many of the bad elements abroad to sell to us.

Why don't we accept the fact that the world is changing? That we have to move with the times? I do belive that our culture is slowly beginning to dissolve in the ocean of Europe. We're a small country, and we've taken alot of the EU's funding to stay afloat. It's about time we took some responsibility and allowed the many cultures that surround us the same opportunites given to us during our times of strife.

The outright racial hatred that runs rampant through our Irish society sickens me and makes me ashamed to be Irish.

FTA69

mike4819 wrote: »

Sounds kinda nice actually. Certainly nicer than, gypsy beggars, nigerian sex offenders and east european felons.

Oh my what have I said! I must be a (horror of horrors!) a... a... a

RACIST!!!!!

Yeah, because Irish people were never involved in any sort of sex-offense scandals here at all, seriously like.

Beowulf is spot on, over here I know a fair few Irish people involved in cocaine dealing as well as flogging stolen goods and rinsing stolen cars through their mechanic businesses. There will always be a few criminals in any given ethnic group. For instance you can see Polish and Romanian bouncers over here wearing body armour and generally acting the c*nt, but the vast majority of their compatriots are working 65+ hours a week and paying sh*tloads of tax collectively. Talk of "eroding culture" is simply scaremongering, if 10% of the population are immigrants that means 90% are Irish. Hardly an embattled minority are we?

wotisthere

We dont want them, We dont need them . deport all non europeans . full stop. we will be a nation of half breeds . no identity , no culture as it will be outlawed to proclaim yourself as IRISH.we are a celtic christian country . do not forget that all you do gooders .:mad:

mikemac

wotisthere wrote: »

We dont want them, We dont need them . deport all non europeans . full stop. we will be a nation of half breeds . no identity , no culture as it will be outlawed to proclaim yourself as IRISH.we are a celtic christian country . do not forget that all you do gooders .:mad:

What is it with posters and their full stops lately.

Mr.Micro, look at what you've started!

oscarBravo

wotisthere banned for having nothing useful to contribute, and for slaughtering the English language.

Back on topic.

FTA69

You're screwed now OB, you've gone and offended the "silent majority".

oscarBravo

Hey, I've got to get my kicks somewhere...

sovtek

Greenman wrote: »

Irish Integration-is it possible?

I think it is only possible if the people coming to Ireland want to intergrate.
.

That only happens if your government allows people to integrate. Currently they are trying to shake us immigrants loose. That isn't conducive to integration.

sovtek

mike4819 wrote: »

Sounds kinda nice actually. Certainly nicer than, gypsy beggars, nigerian sex offenders and east european felons.

Oh my what have I said! I must be a (horror of horrors!) a... a... a

RACIST!!!!!

Of course there are no Irish beggars, sex offenders and felons!

Blisterman

I'd take Polish, Nigerians, Romanians, Chinese etc, any day over native Irish skangers any day.


Yeah. immigration is possible. It takes time, but it's possible. I live in London, and for every psycho al quida member, you hear about in the Sun or the Daily Mail, there are dozens, if not hundreds of immigrants, who are hard working and as much a part of the community as any one else.

Zombrex

wotisthere wrote: »

We dont want them, We dont need them . deport all non europeans . full stop. we will be a nation of half breeds . no identity , no culture as it will be outlawed to proclaim yourself as IRISH.we are a celtic christian country . do not forget that all you do gooders .:mad:

Actually "we" do what them here. It was decided at the last meeting. You must have missed that one ...

Zombrex

mike4819 wrote: »

Sounds kinda nice actually. Certainly nicer than, gypsy beggars, nigerian sex offenders and east european felons.

Oh my what have I said! I must be a (horror of horrors!) a... a... a

RACIST!!!!!

LOL .. no sh*t Mike, no sh*t :rolleyes:

I really hate those n*ggers. But sure with the PC police these days you can't say that without being considered a "racist"

Sesshoumaru

I think integration is only possible when the two cultures have a certain amount of overlap. Some cultures are just too different to integrate into our society.

Zombrex

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Some cultures are just too different to integrate into our society.

Such as?

Sesshoumaru

Wicknight wrote: »

Such as?

I wouldn't want to label any particular culture. I'd just prefer we only granted visas and citizenship to people who respected our country and way of life. Its not about keeping Ireland "pure" like some racists posted earlier, I married a Chinese girl myself. We just need to recognise that some ingredients don't blend well together. Seems like simple common sense to me.

Zombrex

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I wouldn't want to label any particular culture.
I'd just prefer we only granted visas and citizenship to people who respected our country and way of life.

And how are we going to do that if you don't tell us which cultures don't respect our country and way of life.

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

We just need to recognise that some ingredients don't blend well together. Seems like simple common sense to me.

And without knowing what they are how do we do that?

Sesshoumaru

I was only suggesting what I felt would be a more sensible immigration policy. Basically be a bit fussy about where our immigrants come from. Look around the world and analyse countries which have been taking in immigrants from around the world for longer periods of time than us. Then see how different groups integrated into those countries over time.

Based on information like that we can implement policies that favour immigration from countries with cultures that are more likely to integrate with our own. We already favour people with desirable skills and qualifications. I don't see what the problem would be adding an extra cultural filter?

oscarBravo

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Look around the world and analyse countries which have been taking in immigrants from around the world for longer periods of time than us.

Like China?

mike4819

But sure with the PC police these days you can't say that without being considered a "racist"


Unfortunately, "Wik" you've got that part right!