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16% of travellers in employment

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  • 28-11-2007 10:41am
    #1
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭


    From todays indo. 16% of travellers of working age are in employment. :rolleyes:


«1345

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    #2
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    That's much higher than I would have thought, most of them being self-employed.

    What's your opinion on it?


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    #3
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    i put the :rolleyes: beside the question. Thats my opinion. Something needs to be done to get these people working.


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    #4
    El Stuntman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭El Stuntman


    dodgyme wrote: »
    i put the :rolleyes: beside the question. Thats my opinion. Something needs to be done to get these people working.

    why?


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    #5
    judas101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭judas101


    would you hire one?


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    #6
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    dodgyme wrote: »
    i put the :rolleyes: beside the question. Thats my opinion. Something needs to be done to get these people working.
    That Indo piece is low on substance. The statistics themselves say that people who didn't specify their employment status obviously aren't included - since most travellers operate outside of the tax system, I would say that most of them working for themselves opted to not specify that on the census form for fear of being found out.

    A more useful statistic would be the number of people in each ethnicity claiming unemployment benefit.


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    #7
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    El Stuntman wrote: »
    why?

    why do you think. If 16% are working, who has to pay to keep them????


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    #8
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    dodgyme wrote: »
    why do you think. If 16% are working, who has to pay to keep them????
    Except that 16% working doesn't mean 84% claiming the dole. You're making a pretty huge leap there.

    A different page in the same report shows that 41.2% of travellers are officially "unemployed". With no fixed abode, and 83.6% of travellers having a primary education or less, this really isn't a shock.


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    #9
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    seamus wrote: »
    this really isn't a shock.

    Its not a shock, its just that when stats come out I think it is atleast a basis for discussion. The indo can be a bit flakey in it representations anyhow but getting opinions like your own is important as is the comment "would you employ one", really does put it up to you.


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    #10
    donaghs
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Does anyone remember when the social welfare services on both sides of the border got together to synchronise times for social welfare payments to cut down on cross-border fraud. There was uproar in the Travelling Community.


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    #11
    layke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭layke


    Seamus without hard facts I can't disagree with you but during my time working in Nutgrove (kip) many years ago I saw the dole queue. Every month a mass movement of travellers would march up like a pack of penguins and claim.

    These people probably (and I say probably) from the experiences I have over the years are making cash on the side without paying any tax.The majority that I have seen do not work, have no intention of working either and before anyone asks no, I wouldn't hire a traveller, I just couldn't trust them.

    They need to be forced into working and stop living off my back. Losing your dole money after xx amount of months without work would certainly help.


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    #12
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    dodgyme wrote: »
    Something needs to be done to get these people working.

    What would you suggest?


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    #13
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    Wicknight wrote: »
    What would you suggest?

    what would you suggest?


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    #14
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    16% means nothing. It could be 16 people or 16,000 people. Do you have actual figures from the newspaper?


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    #15
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Forced labour camps???


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    #16
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    dodgyme wrote: »
    what would you suggest?

    I wouldn't suggest anything.

    The main reasons Travelers have problems getting employment is lack of education, lack of skill sets and attitudes towards Travelers. Those problems are quite complex with no quick fix solution. There are problems on all sides, from discrimination against travelers to the attitudes of the traveler communities themselves towards things like education and employment in the "settled world".

    Its all very well saying that they should all be working.

    But unless you have an idea that solves more problems that it creates its just hot air TBH.


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    #17
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I wouldn't suggest anything.
    .

    ok


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    #18
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    dodgyme wrote: »
    ok

    And what would you suggest?


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    #19
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Here is the actual story.
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/only-16pc-of-travellers-are--in-employment-1231891.html

    Travellers make up 0.5% of the population. Of that 59% are of the working age (0.295% of Irish population).

    This working age disparity we have known about for years. It was worse in 1994 (iirc).

    So it is 3,584 registered themselves as working out of 22,400. Low numbers? Yes, but the total can't be taken on it's own.


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    #20
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Hobbes wrote: »
    16% means nothing. It could be 16 people or 16,000 people. Do you have actual figures from the newspaper?

    It's the Indo, for feck's sake!!!! The paper that skews more statistics and writes dubious and lying headlines than any tabloid I've ever seen!

    I used to buy this crap, but I gave up when I saw them take a statistical fact, avoid the required clarification, add some guesswork, make 2 crazy assumptions and a statistically unlikely crystal ball prediction and then write the headline based on their conclusion, quoting the headline as a fact using the phrase "will be"..... :rolleyes:

    It was the equivalent of a headline:

    "Bertie Ahern will be jailed for fraud"

    ....leading an article that basically says that.....

    "If the allegations which have been made against the Taoiseach are indeed true, and if they can be proven, and if the DPP can establish a case, and if the judge or jury reaches a guilty verdict without the case falling apart due to the media coverage, and if the judge then views the offence as fraud and bad enough to justify a jail term, then Bertie Ahern will be jailed, assuming that he hasn't died in the meantime like Charlie did."

    If you're looking for considered statistical facts, my advice is to look elsewhere.....

    e.g. "of working age"

    How many are disabled ?
    How many are stay-at-home married and therefore minding their kids and not working ?

    etc, etc.

    It's VERY easy make a headline that looks like it's fact; particularly if you want to impose your bias/prejudice on a naieve reader.

    I also remember the indo reporting a convicted killer via an article that led with "The petite blonde mother of two wept bitterly as she was led from the courtroom"

    That's not a journalist; that's someone who wants to write chick-lit.


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    #21
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Yeah ,the Indo is a comic,most of its stories are borrowed from other papers .I would take it with a pinch of salt.The travellers get by with a bit of this and that scraping a living .I dont see why people should continue to resent the fact that the majority are not registered as working (if we accept the stat from the Indo.)as it is not an easy lifestyle where they are discriminated against by many.


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    #22
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Yeah ,the Indo is a comic,most of its stories are borrowed from other papers .I would take it with a pinch of salt.The travellers get by with a bit of this and that scraping a living .I dont see why people should continue to resent the fact that the majority are not registered as working (if we accept the stat from the Indo.)as it is not an easy lifestyle where they are discriminated against by many.

    why would people not resent the fact that there is a section of our population who consider themselves above income tax?


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    #23
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Beano wrote: »
    why would people not resent the fact that there is a section of our population who consider themselves above income tax?

    With respect Beano,You mean the politicians and big business men and all the other chancers in Ireland .


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    #24
    layke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭layke


    At least they keep the money flowing on our little Island, provide jobs and actually do pay corp tax.
    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Yeah ,the Indo is a comic,most of its stories are borrowed from other papers .I would take it with a pinch of salt.The travellers get by with a bit of this and that scraping a living .I dont see why people should continue to resent the fact that the majority are not registered as working (if we accept the stat from the Indo.)as it is not an easy lifestyle where they are discriminated against by many.

    Did you not see when the Euro came in? Every traveller bought a 70k Merc and then sold it after the conversion took place. Trust me mate, a lot of these boys are loaded and still collect your money every week.

    The country needs to cut the dole after 1 year of non employment unless they have some medical cert.


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    #25
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    With respect Beano,You mean the politicians and big business men and all the other chancers in Ireland .

    I confess to not having much time for Travellers, but Mr. Micro has raised a very valid point.


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    #26
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    layke wrote: »
    The country needs to cut the dole after 1 year of non employment unless they have some medical cert.

    And do what with the people who are still unemployed? Ship them into the city centre so they can sleep under doorways and beg on the street? Great idea, that just what we need


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    #27
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    layke wrote: »
    Every traveller bought a 70k Merc and then sold it after the conversion took place.
    This is categorically untrue.

    Granted, there's no rule in the charter about factual accuracy, but on an emotive topic such as this I have no intention of letting this forum become a soap-box for people to bitch about selected groups - be they immigrants, travellers or anyone else.

    So, here's how it's going to play out from now on: rampant bullshit such as I've quoted above will earn an infraction point, and doing it repeatedly will earn a ban. If you want to troll, go do it somewhere else.


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    #28
    eoin5
    Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭eoin5


    We should count ourselves lucky, at least were not Romania ;)


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    #29
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    With respect Beano,You mean the politicians and big business men and all the other chancers in Ireland .

    You mean all 9 of them:rolleyes:
    (people who pay no/very little tax)


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    #30
    The_Minister
    Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    With respect Beano,You mean the politicians and big business men and all the other chancers in Ireland .

    You mean all 9 of them:rolleyes:
    (people who pay no/very little tax)


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    #31
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    seamus wrote: »

    A different page in the same report shows that 41.2% of travellers are officially "unemployed". With no fixed abode, and 83.6% of travellers having a primary education or less, this really isn't a shock.

    Just on that point, can your average homeless man from say, dublin city centre, claim dole?

    Wicknight wrote: »
    And do what with the people who are still unemployed? Ship them into the city centre so they can sleep under doorways and beg on the street? Great idea, that just what we need

    They should be put in a job, working in a shop, road sweeping or any one of a number of jobs they felt werent worth theri while getting out of bed for for years. If after that they fail to stay in that job, it's their own business what they do, but no more hand outs.


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