My neighbour leaves her baby outside!

Susannahmia

I am living in an apartment block where the ground floor apartments have glass doors leading out to the front. One of my neighbours has recently had a baby; it’s about three months old now.

The thing is, I've noticed at least three times that some mornings she leaves it outside the door in it's pram. The doors shut, curtains often closed and no sign of the mother! Some of these mornings have been really cold, but the baby seems well wrapped up at least.

The first two times I thought it was strange but I was just passing by and assumed that the mother was maybe just grabbing something from the apartment. I was at home today though so I checked on the baby several times. From the time I was aware of the baby- it was out for at least an hour. On my last check I said to myself that if it was still out there I would call the Gardai. She had finally brought it in though.

As well as the cold I'm worried that someone could take her, we have security gates but I think I'm the only one that actually bothers to close the pedestrian gate!

She looks Eastern European, maybe it’s a strange custom or something? This could be happening every morning for all I know as I tend to leave the apartment at different times. What should I do?

Nevyn

This used to be standard practice here in Ireland, for the baby to be dressed for the day wrapped up warm and put outside the door in the pram while the mother got on with the house hold chores for an hour or so in the morning.
This was done to me as a child, to my siblings as well and there were times I did the same with my two, what is the difference between walking with the pram for an hour and
leaving the baby out in it for an hour, provided the child is well wraped up and not exposed to the elements.
I didn't have mine out 'for some air' in the winter when it was cold but as you have stated the mother is not from this country an may not consider the current weather here to be cold at all.

Susannahmia

Hmm interesting that explains a lot. However the difference here is that this is a public space, not a priate garden and sometimes the curtains are closed Anyone could easily snatch her.

run_Forrest_run

this is unbelievable! Customs and culture aside, is the mother so thick to fail to notice the area is an open one and the baby could be harmed!

Once again something like this will be highlighted after it's too late and the police and hospital staff will be working to fix a problem caused by some ignorant and foolish person!

Nevyn

imred wrote: »

Hmm interesting that explains a lot. However the difference here is that this is a public space, not a priate garden and sometimes the curtains are closed Anyone could easily snatch her.

Peoples front gardens are public spaces are so are people front steps ( where they have no garden ) and babies were left out in their buggy there as well.

Honestly in a private apartment complex do you really think there is that much danger from a child snatcher ?
Clearly the parent does not rate this risk as the child is right outside her door.

Susannahmia

Thaedydal wrote: »

Peoples front gardens are public spaces are so are people front steps ( where they have no garden ) and babies were left out in their buggy there as well.

Honestly in a private apartment complex do you really think there is that much danger from a child snatcher ?
Clearly the parent does not rate this risk as the child is right outside her door.

It would be too much of a risk for me if it was my baby.

squire1

There is a closed door between the mother and child?

If it a private apartment or not, it is still a public area. What a strange risk to take with your child.

What if some stupid kids were to come along and play a trick by hiding the pram or something. The mind boggles.

ANXIOUS

my nanny still does that with her grand children, infairness its in a glass porch, with the door cracked open a bit. When ever she's cleaning or if he is sleeping. Differnt place same idea. im sure its been going on for centuries. Just shows you how times are changing.

lucyburn

I think that's disgraceful!
The child could catch a cold very easily especially in this weather, i wouldn't leave a dog out for to long at this time of the year.
And what if the child was kidnapped, it doesn't bear thinking about.
You should phone social services and have them investigate her.

Susannahmia

squire1 wrote: »

There is a closed door between the mother and child?

QUOTE]

Yep the door is always shut and the curtains usually are too.

kmick

Next time it happens call social services and let them deal with it. Or else call them now and let them give her a warning. Someone steals that baby you wlll all be suspects.

Susannahmia

kmick wrote: »

Next time it happens call social services and let them deal with it. Or else call them now and let them give her a warning. Someone steals that baby you wlll all be suspects.

I was thinking of asking the Gardai to have a word with her and if it didnt stop then social services? I'd hate to get the family involved in the system if she was just stupid or ignorant of Irish culture and modern day risks.

I'm not really familiar with this system all suggestions are welcome!

silverharp

imred wrote: »

I was thinking of asking the Gardai to have a word with her and if it didnt stop then social services? I'd hate to get the family involved in the system if she was just stupid or ignorant of Irish culture and modern day risks.

I'm not really familiar with this system all suggestions are welcome!

try having a chat with her and maybe get to understand the culture, if she is from eastern europe the irish winter wont seem harsh by her standards. lets be honest the rest is media hype, the very people who think there is a molester behind every corner will be the very ones who let their kids ride in a car without a seatbelt

magnumlady

I think its dreadful, would she leave a plasma tv outside on its own?
I don't think so, but its OK to leave a baby. Funny old world.

kelle

Does anybody remember around this time last year, there was a discussion on Joe Duffy's radio show about a baby being left sleeping on a balcony in a Dublin Apartment. Seemingly, this baby was being minded by it's Scandinavian grandmother and this practice is very popular in Scandinavia. But a neighbour became concerned as it was a day of torrential rain and reported her to the Gardai. The baby's father was on Joe Duffy defending his mother-in-law's actions.
I remember my mother doing the same with my younger brother, even when he was a newborn (born in November!). I live in the country myself and like to let my toddler have her afternoon sleep outdoors, but leave the door open so I can see her and only if the weather is mild.

Nevyn

imred wrote: »

I was thinking of asking the Gardai to have a word with her and if it didnt stop then social services? I'd hate to get the family involved in the system if she was just stupid or ignorant of Irish culture and modern day risks.

I'm not really familiar with this system all suggestions are welcome!

The garda can't do anything about it.
social services are hugely over worked and under staffed in this country and yes a compliant to them automatically generates a file on the system that stays active for a year even if there is not a problem and even after the case is closed the file still exists.

With the child being under a year they do fall under the care of the local baby nurse. So I would suggest ringing your local health clinic and asking to speak to the child/baby nurse and mention your concerns as they will be the one checking on the baby and doing the child's developmental check ups.

Also, how do you know that there is not some one checking on the child periodically ? Do you sit and watch the pram for the entire time ?

squire1

silverharp wrote: »

the very people who think there is a molester behind every corner will be the very ones who let their kids ride in a car without a seatbelt

That is a bit of a dramatic statement. No?

I don't think this issue is about child molesters, it is more about leaving a baby in a risky situation. She might leave the baby out there for a year and nothing will happen but then again, why bother taking the risk?

I'm not going to pass judgement on this lady as i am not fully aware of the situation. I just know I wouldn't do it. Does that mean that I am the type of person to allow my kids travel in a car unrestrained? I don't think so.

Ludo

Nothing wrong with this at all as long as the baby is well wrapped up and watched at all times.

A friend of mine from Eastern Europe does this every day with her three month old as it is common practise where she is from and it is a damn sight colder there than it is here.

We take our 2 month-olds for walks every day in their pram to get them outside (unless it is very damp/raining)...no difference really health wise other than we are right there with them at all times.

Mr. Presentable

Thaedydal wrote: »

Honestly in a private apartment complex do you really think there is that much danger from a child snatcher ?

Wasn't the McCann kid in a private apartment complex?

squire1

Ludo wrote: »

Nothing wrong with this at all as long as the baby is well wrapped up and watched at all times.

A friend of mine from Eastern Europe does this every day with her three month old as it is common practise where she is from and it is a damn sight colder there than it is here.

We take our 2 month-olds for walks every day in their pram to get them outside (unless it is very damp/raining)...no difference really health wise other than we are right there with them at all times.

But from what I can gather in this situation, the mother can not see the baby/pram. Different situation really to leaving them in a porch with the door open or outside the window in a private back garden.

Saruman

Maybe there is a health benefit to it? I mean it will probably toughen the immune system or whatever. Get the baby used to the elements, humans have a great capacity to adapt to all environments and getting the baby used to the elements at that age might make them less likely to get sick when they are a little older.
It sounds possible anyway... not sure if there is some evidence of it.

Anyway i think the action itself is fine as long the baby is being checked on. Are you sure the mother does not check on the baby through the curtains every now and again? Hell she might even have a baby monitor in the pram so can hear anything that goes on.

Maybe what you should do is ask a garda to drop by to see if the baby is outside, if so maybe they can have a little chat and check out the situation.

Susannahmia

Thaedydal wrote: »

The garda can't do anything about it.
social services are hugely over worked and under staffed in this country and yes a compliant to them automatically generates a file on the system that stays active for a year even if there is not a problem and even after the case is closed the file still exists.

With the child being under a year they do fall under the care of the local baby nurse. So I would suggest ringing your local health clinic and asking to speak to the child/baby nurse and mention your concerns as they will be the one checking on the baby and doing the child's developmental check ups.

Also, how do you know that there is not some one checking on the child periodically ? Do you sit and watch the pram for the entire time ?

I'm sure she must check on the child regularly (or at least I hope that she does!). But for me that wouldn’t be good enough. Its a big apartment block where no one knows anyone, the gates never closed because people are lazy and the code is too awkward to put in, a large hotel actually has its back entrance opening out to our car park with workers and delivery men free to walk in and out. If the baby is out there for 10 minutes unchecked anything could happen. I know that there aren’t psychos around every corner looking to steal babies but it is still a risk. As someone else said Madeline McCann was in a private complex, Jamie Bulgers mother only left him unattended for one minute.

NextSteps

Wouldn't the easiest thing be to mention it to her? Not in a busybody way, if you can help it, but just to mention the danger. No need to bring all the bureaucracy down on her head if it's a case of her being innocent of the risks.

I don;t think there's anything strange about leaving the baby out per se, it's just the fact that it's a public area.

Susannahmia

The decision has been made for me. My flatmate just text me there to tell me that she saw the baby outside again. The garda station was on her way so she dropped in and mentioned it to a garda. He seemed pretty shocked and promised to call down later to see what the story is.

FoxyCat

There is nothing wrong with the child sleeping outside as long as he is dressed up properly. My both boys spent most of the day sleeping outside in a pram or else at home when awake. and as some one mentioned we get temperatures of up to -30 (Celsius) But I guess for the little one -10 -15 would be more than enough.

Obviously here the problem is with the baby being left not in the private garden. It might be possible, that the mother does not feel, that it isn't safe to leave the baby outside the front door. It might be, that she feels quite safe, because of the private block you live in. I believe just a friendly chat would've been enough to see what is her position and to decide what is best to do. And then you could've checked whether she still does the same..

Carrigart Exile

The parents are not neglecting the baby, we are just programmed thanks to media scare stories into cotton-wooling our children. Letting the baby experience fresh air, even if it is cold, is better for it and will help it build up its immune system, the parents are probably doing better for their children than those that keep them in, tied to their apron strings and sitting in sweltering centrally heated conditions.

lezizi

There was a programme on recently called bringing up baby. It was were they put three different parenting styles to the test.
One of the methods was the 1950's method and the lady was doing this, putting her baby outside in the garden for an hour everyday. Id never heard of this being done before and would never do it with my baby, but when i said it to my mam and nana they just nodded and said what's wrong with it, the babies need to get air, we use to this with ye. So it seemed like it was common practise back in the day, but we are living in a different world now and i would never leave my baby outside, anything could happen.

loyatemu

nipplenuts wrote: »

Wasn't the McCann kid in a private apartment complex?

littlebitdull

First off... I openly admit to only having read the first few posts on this thread.

Secondly ... this must be at least the fourth parenting forum I have seen said opening post on. Saw it on MagicMum, on Rollercoaster, and on EUMOM....and not all this week either. Its almost word for word the same opening post I have seen over the past year or so.

Makes me wonder about it.

Nevyn

littlebitdull if you have an issue or a suspision with a post use the report post function please.

littlebitdull

I simply find it strange that someone is posting the same issue again... or is this an urban myth beginning?

And to be fair to the opening poster this is the first time I have seen this issue without the poster claiming their neighbour to be "non irish"... so at least on here its less bigoted than I have seen before.

Of course its also entirely possible that its something that people have a problem with. That a practice that I saw widely used when my eldest was an infant is coming back into fashion, but not with everybody.

I am simply stating facts, as I have encounted them.