british teacher names teddy after prophet - Threads Merged

moe_sizlak

im sure many in here hee have heard the story in the news where a british teacher in sudan has been imprisioned for naming a teddy bear she was using to teach pupils in a school after the prophet
if convicted , she faces 50 lashes or 6 months in prison

is this female teacher likely to be convicted and if so would this be in keeping with sharia law

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

surely this should be in the Sudan forum....

Hobbes

C_Breeze is on a temp ban. While the OP has a valid question, show some respect while in the forum.

As for the OP, It is my understanding you can't name idols after the prophet and this would fall under that. The punishment in this case is well out of order though. I'm curious why the children haven't been punished as well, as they took part in the naming.

r3nu4l

Hobbes wrote: »

C_Breeze is on a temp ban. While the OP has a valid question, show some respect while in the forum.

As for the OP, It is my understanding you can't name idols after the prophet and this would fall under that. The punishment in this case is well out of order though. I'm curious why the children haven't been punished as well, as they took part in the naming.

Are children of a certain age given leniency in Islam? Would the teacher not be seen as a corrupting influence? After all, I'm sure children are taught to respect their teachers...that would be my view.

Also, I have to say that while it all seems a bit OTT I really feel that this lady should have known better! Surely anyone teaching in a school where Islam is the predominant religion would have been aware of this? While I often think Sharia law and associated punishments are absurd I find it hard to feel sympathy for this woman.

On the other hand it seems perfectly acceptable to give the 'name' Mohammed to a person so surely the 'name' Mohammed is okay for a bear, rather than saying that this bear is a representation and idol of the great prophet 'Mohammed'.

I think I'm supposed to say 'Peace be upon him' or similar when I use the name of the Prophet...is this correct?

InFront

Anyone unfamiliar with the story can read it here

is this female teacher likely to be convicted and if so would this be in keeping with sharia law

I don't know if she is likely to be convicted or not, hopefully not. A Punishment would be prescribed if one were genuinely setting out to deface Islam or the Prophet Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him, but reading this story that seems like an absurd accusation.

Personally I cannot understand why on Earth anyone would manipulate this situation to accuse this teacher of disrespect.
In any country, but particularly in places like Sudan, teddy bears are treasured and loved objects for little children, and in that light the name Muhammad seems somehow very appropriate.

Do any of us really think that this would anger the Prophet?

r3nu4l wrote: »

I think I'm supposed to say 'Peace be upon him' or similar when I use the name of the Prophet...is this correct?

As Muslims yes we do this, but of course there's absolutely no obligation on you to do so and I am sure that nobody will be offended that you don't:)

r3nu4l

InFront wrote: »

As Muslims yes we do this, but of course there's absolutely no obligation on you to do so and I am sure that nobody will be offended that you don't:)

Thanks InFront, oh, and from reading your post I think I should brush up on my spelling too

wes

The whole thing is really dumb. It really seems like Sudan is giving the rest of the world the middle finger.

donaghs

wes wrote: »

The whole thing is really dumb. It really seems like Sudan is giving the rest of the world the middle finger.

With Darfur (and similar incidents that preceded it) they don't seem too bothered by world opinion.

mmalaka

She should not be convicted, and I think I red in an Arabic website that one of the children defend her by saying that he selected the name

It is another small mistake that the media would use it to give a wrong idea about Islam

wes

mmalaka wrote: »

It is another small mistake that the media would use it to give a wrong idea about Islam

I wouldn't blame the media on this one. The finger of blame should be pointed squarely on the Sudanese government, who should have released this Woman a long time ago and who should change the law if this is the kind of rubbish that happens.

mmalaka

wes wrote: »

I wouldn't blame the media on this one. The finger of blame should be pointed squarely on the Sudanese government, who should have released this Woman a long time ago and who should change the law if this is the kind of rubbish that happens.

I do not think that they have this in the law

but yes it is the Sudanese government mistake

deman

mmalaka wrote: »

It is another small mistake that the media would use it to give a wrong idea about Islam

How can you blame the media for this? How can the teacher even be blamed? InFront spoke a lot of sense in what he said. It's a ridiculous situation where an innocent child gave an innocent name to an innocent teddy bear. Cassius Clay even named himself Muhammad. Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance of the religion here so sorry if I sound dumb

mmalaka

deman wrote: »

How can you blame the media for this? How can the teacher even be blamed?

I am not blaming the Media

I clearly said it is the Sudanese government mistake

InFront

r3nu4l wrote: »

I should brush up on my spelling too

Ah well If you mean the the name of the Prophet Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him, not to worry - there are any number of correct ways of spelling it, there isn't exactly one "correct" spelling-translation into English letters.

In any case, this isn't the spell czech forum eh:)

Cassius Clay even named himself Muhammad.

Yes, it's one of the most common names of young Muslim boys, I have an Uncle and a brother named Muhammad!
I have to say though, I do think that naming icons in the name or the resemblance of the Prophet Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him, either for the purposes of adoration or mockery, is wrong, and this is a genuine teaching of Islam.
But anyone can see that's not what this teacher set out to do, hopefully those involved in hearing her case show a bit of common sense about it.

Just read in the news as well that the school has also been shut down until the new year when things cool over, I think those kids have suffered enough being embroiled in this anger of adults without having their education hindered. We should remember that Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him, was a man of enormous compassion for, and love toward, children, and this is well documented in various hadith,

PDN

I think the really sad thing is that Sudan needs volunteer teachers. After this incident I wouldn't anticipate too many volunteers answering the call - so kids all over Sudan are going to lose out yet again.

SkepticOne

She has been sentenced to 15 days in prison. She has been spared the lash.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-7114400,00.html

Clerics in Sudan had called for the full measure of the law to be applied which would have involved up to 40 lashes.

MarkColeman

Anyone who is describing this affair as anything other than a catastrophe conjured up by religious lunatics need to have their heads examined.

Cuddly toy + Schoolteacher + innocent children + Religious clerics = 40 lashes & 6 months in prison? Sorry but that equation does not add up, the error is the religious clerics & the 40 lashes and jail part. Unbelievable.

InFront wrote: »

I have to say though, I do think that naming icons in the name or the resemblance of the Prophet Muhammad, Peace Be Upon Him, either for the purposes of adoration or mockery, is wrong, and this is a genuine teaching of Islam.
But anyone can see that's not what this teacher set out to do, hopefully those involved in hearing her case show a bit of common sense about it.

If the poor woman had been naming the toy muhammad for mockery, do you think the correct course of action would then have been to improsen her and give her 40 lashes?

gillyfromlyre

Its one thing after another isn't it, most of these type cases don't even get covered by the media, the fact she's english is the only reason we are hearing about this one, its only tip of the iceberg stuff

the_syco

InFront wrote: »

Do any of us really think that this would anger the Prophet?

She a British.

She a Woman.

I think that covers why the clerics want her whipped. It doesn't offend the dude, but like the f**kers over here, I'd say th clerics like showing that they have power, when they can.

Boston

When two cultures are at war, this is exactly the type of thing you get. The traditionalist Islamic leadership in Sudan are simply fearful of western values penetrating into the next generation. They're probably delighted at the idea that this will lower the number of foreign teachers in Sudan.

Suff

I find this ridiculous. If the teacher intentions were to insult the prophet (PBUH) then I would think a large fine and deportation should be adequate.

I think since the Danish Cartoons every one is getting "High" seeing everything as a potential insult.

Sadly...yet again the world just sees us (Muslims) as backward, unfriendly people.

Boston

The thing she is been accused of here is allowing the children to name the teddy, no one is even bothering to suggest that it was her idea, so basically she's been punished for not stopping the children

is_that_so

One of the elements of teachers working abroad is having information on cultural sensitivity. I think the sentence was wrong but equally the organisation who employed her should have highlighted the potential cultural pitfalls.

MarkColeman

Suff wrote: »

I find this ridiculous. If the teacher intentions were to insult the prophet (PBUH) then I would think a large fine and deportation should be adequate.

I think since the Danish Cartoons every one is getting "High" seeing everything as a potential insult.

Sadly...yet again the world just sees us (Muslims) as backward, unfriendly people.

Large fine and deportation? I find even that ridiculous. Getting the sack would be more than enough punishment. In fact getting a stern warning from her bosses in the school would be enough punishment.

I see you mention the cartoons, just out of interest what is your opinion on those? Do you think the cartoonist deserves imprisonment?

SubjectSean

MarkColeman wrote: »

Large fine and deportation? I find even that ridiculous. Getting the sack would be more than enough punishment. In fact getting a stern warning from her bosses in the school would be enough punishment.

I would whip her for being so dumb. she kind of deserves it. If you are dumb and unthinking, stay home. Sudan have done much worse things than bang up a European lady up for a few days IMO

This was a Christian-run School AFAIK. Bet she wouldn't have called the toy Jesus.

spank_inferno

Naming the teddy 'Jesus' would also have been insulting to muslims.
Jesus or Isa being one of the 5 main prophets of Islam.

Evangelion

If it had been a Christian School and shenamed it Jesus (which is an unequal comparison since he was a divine being), you'd never hear a word about it.

I heard alot about this cartoon, but never saw it. What did it depict, I want to be able to see the comparson.

In all fairness, you only have to watch Family Guy to see cartoon insulting religions...but for the most part we all just see the funny side. I don't see the big deal, in the case of the bear, the kids weren't worshiping it, so it wasn't an "idol"

Hivemind187

is_that_so wrote: »

One of the elements of teachers working abroad is having information on cultural sensitivity. I think the sentence was wrong but equally the organisation who employed her should have highlighted the potential cultural pitfalls.

Its ... a ... teddy! It's not a craven image. Its not a dipictation. Its not a drawing or an idol. Its a teddy, that the children named. Mulsim children.

Does anyone else get the impression that an example is being made here?

Suff

MarkColeman wrote: »

Getting the sack would be more than enough punishment. In fact getting a stern warning from her bosses in the school would be enough punishment.

Maybe she got a warning, we don't know however I do find getting sacked is better than prison!

I see you mention the cartoons, just out of interest what is your opinion on those? Do you think the cartoonist deserves imprisonment?

I'm not going to go through that topic again since we've already had discussed a number of them here but will just answer this: Yes, they do deserve punishment if their intentions were to insult.

Suff

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Its ... a ... teddy! It's not a craven image. Its not a dipictation. Its not a drawing or an idol. Its a teddy, that the children named. Mulsim children.
Does anyone else get the impression that an example is being made here?

I'm sure every one does, but sadly the sudanese authorities dont!

I don't think her intentions were to insult the Prophet (PBUH)

Hivemind187

Hundreds of people are marching and demanding that the teacher in question be shot.