british teacher names teddy after prophet - Threads Merged

Hobbes

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Hundreds of people are marching and demanding that the teacher in question be shot.

F'ing idiots.

She's getting 15 days in jail (I suspect backdated) and deported. TBH it would probably be safer for her to leave the country.

SubjectSean

Evangelion wrote: »

If it had been a Christian School and shenamed it Jesus (which is an unequal comparison since he was a divine being), you'd never hear a word about it.

You are wrong. Jesus was just a man no more divine than any of us, it says so quite clearly in Acts. My point is that she didn't call it Jesus. She was dumb enough to name it Mohammed. I can imagine her laughing about it in the Christian staff-room.

Latchy

SubjectSean wrote: »

You are wrong. Jesus was just a man no more divine than any of us, it says so quite clearly in Acts. My point is that she didn't call it Jesus. She was dumb enough to name it Mohammed. I can imagine her laughing about it in the Christian staff-room.

It wasn't she who named it Mohammed ,it was a child in her class .Think back a dcade or so ago when a certin type of jam had to have the gollywog removed from it's label because of racial sterotyping .

SubjectSean

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Hundreds of people are marching and demanding that the teacher in question be shot.

Walk down Falls road shouting "f**k the pope" we'll see how long you last

Latchy

SubjectSean wrote: »

You are wrong. Jesus was just a man no more divine than any of us, it says so quite clearly in Acts. My point is that she didn't call it Jesus. She was dumb enough to name it Mohammed. I can imagine her laughing about it in the Christian staff-room.

She didint call it Mohammed ,it was a child in her class.Think back a few decades in uk when a jam label with a picture of a gollywog was removed because of fears of racial stereotyping.

SubjectSean

latchyco wrote: »

It wasn't she who named it Mohammed ,it was a child in her class .Think back a dcade or so ago when a certin type of jam had to have the gollywog removed from it's label because of racial sterotyping .

So the kids were running this class? I really don't think so. Her little Christian joke has backfired on her. What has an offensive label got to do with anything in this case? Anyhow what's a gollywog? Think about it. Do you know where the term wog comes from?

Rev Hellfire

Excellent trolling there seanie.

Zirconia

SubjectSean wrote: »

Walk down Falls road shouting "f**k the pope" we'll see how long you last

Well, that's a very mature and relevant statment, isn't it? I didn't think she was going around the school shouting f**k Mohammed last time I checked.

On the other hand, whatever might have happend if you walked down the Falls road shouting that, you wouldn't have been arrested thrown in prison and possibly tortured by the governing authorities for that statement - theres the important difference!

Demonique

A gollywog is one of those black stuffed dolls with red cheeks, they are an ugly representation of black people, I never liked them even before I knew what they were supposed to be, I <censored!>ing hate their garish red cheeks, those paintings and dolls of ugly white kids with rosy cheeks are even worse. Rosy cheeks just look ugly, if I saw someone with red cheeks I'd think they're either an alco or have a skin condition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gollywog

King John V

I suppose in all fairness she did break the rules which were stated clearly and categorically under article 125 of Sudanese Code of Law. Rules are rules afterall. :rolleyes:

Latchy

Quote =SubjectSean;54546477]So the kids were running this class? I really don't think so. Her little Christian joke has backfired on her. What has an offensive label got to do with anything in this case? Anyhow what's a gollywog? Think about it. Do you know where the term wog comes from?

Jezz ,give the womon some credit , she may not have being familiar with everything in the muslim rule book about what is and what is not offensive , but cant see were she is going to risk doing such a thing as she is supposed to have done . I used the offensive labe to show that you dont have to be thousends of miles away in a muslim country to be controversial in these matters. Gollwog is a black doll like a minstrel . The term wog as far as i am aware originally refers to the Aboriginal people and is an offensive term .

SubjectSean

Zirconia wrote: »

Well, that's a very mature and relevant statment, isn't it? I didn't think she was going around the school shouting f**k Mohammed last time I checked.

On the other hand, whatever might have happend if you walked down the Falls road shouting that, you wouldn't have been arrested thrown in prison and possibly tortured by the governing authorities for that statement - theres the important difference!

She might as well have been. Just because you can't see this only shows me you haven't the slightest clue about Sudan.

The post I replied to wasn't talking about the "governing authorities" it was talking about a mob baying for blood. I was merely pointing out that it would be relatively easy to get a mob baying for blood in our own 'civilised' nation

SubjectSean

latchyco wrote: »

Jezz ,give the womon some credit , she may not have being familiar with everything in the muslim rule book about what is and what is not offensive , but cant see were she is going to risk doing such a thing as she is supposed to have done . I used the offensive labe to show that you dont have to be thousends of miles away in a muslim country to be controversial in these matters. Gollwog is a black doll like a minstrel . The term wog as far as i am aware originally refers to the Aboriginal people and is an offensive term .

I don't give her any credit. How could she possibly be in Sudan and not know that this was offensive. However she didn't think she was risking anything, she is very dumb. Don't get me wrong here I'm no fan of Sudan but I've been in Africa and some of the christian mission schools really p**s me off the way they go about undermining other peoples cultures as if they had a right.

According to that online concoction of an encyclopedia
"the term "golliwogg" was used both as a reference to the children's toy and as a generic, racist term for blacks. In Britain and its colonies, "golliwogg" perhaps became "wog" a racial slur applied to dark-skinned peoples worldwide, including Africans, Italians and other Mediterranean people, Native Americans, Middle Easterners, Hispanics, Aborigines, and Indians"

MarkColeman

SubjectSean wrote: »

I don't give her any credit. How could she possibly be in Sudan and not know that this was offensive. However she didn't think she was risking anything, she is very dumb. Don't get me wrong here I'm no fan of Sudan but I've been in Africa and some of the christian mission schools really p**s me off the way they go about undermining other peoples cultures as if they had a right.

Maybe she didnt realise it was offensive because she's from a much more civilized country where people dont go on a caveman like witchhunt because their god was insulted. Also you referred to it as a christian joke? Are you really dumb enough to think the reason the toy was named mohammed was because she was a christian and she wanted to stick it to the muslims?

I'm certainly not sticking up for any christian mission schools, but are you a muslim? You cannot be a muslim and keep a straight face when talking about people undermining other peoples cultures.

MarkColeman

I'm not going to go through that topic again since we've already had discussed a number of them here but will just answer this: Yes, they do deserve punishment if their intentions were to insult.

Ok well i gotta disagree with you on that point. But if thats your opinion, then surely all the cartoonists in the middle east who have been printing vicious anti semetic cartoons for years would then also deserve punishment?

SubjectSean

MarkColeman wrote: »

Maybe she didnt realise it was offensive because she's from a much more civilized country where people dont go on a caveman like witchhunt because their god was insulted. Also you referred to it as a christian joke? Are you really dumb enough to think the reason the toy was named mohammed was because she was a christian and she wanted to stick it to the muslims?

I'm certainly not sticking up for any christian mission schools, but are you a muslim? You cannot be a muslim and keep a straight face when talking about people undermining other peoples cultures.

No I'm not a muslim I'm a christian but not like the all the ones on the post-Nicean buzz. Anyhow religion has got nothing to do with it. This is all about culture and the bottom line is that you don't go imparting offensive crap to other peoples children in countries where you can get the lash for it. It's really dumb like. She got off lightly for her ignorance. Sheer unthinking ignorance. You seem to think African countries should be what you call 'civilized'. You yourself are the lack of food and shelter and 48 hours away from being what you call 'civilised'. Get real. Take a look at the world. If you want everybody to behave like the bored and comfortably numb Europeans and Americans et al then you must share out all the good things so that everybody can become bored and comfortably numb. It's no use complaining that a people are uncivilised whilst half the planet is starving. You should catch them on a better day IMHO. How do 'muslims' undermine other peoples cultures please tell?

jonny72

SubjectSean wrote: »

You are wrong. Jesus was just a man no more divine than any of us, it says so quite clearly in Acts. My point is that she didn't call it Jesus. She was dumb enough to name it Mohammed. I can imagine her laughing about it in the Christian staff-room.

Is Jesus a common Christian name? no, but in Spain it is, so if she was in Spain the class voting to call the teddy bear Jesus would have gone by unnoticed. People are marching in Sudan demanding she be thrown in jail for longer or worse. These are grown human beings reacting over some children naming a teddy bear. There is no defense for this kind of reaction, none.

MarkColeman

SubjectSean wrote: »

No I'm not a muslim I'm a christian but not like the all the ones on the post-Nicean buzz. Anyhow religion has got nothing to do with it. This is all about culture and the bottom line is that you don't go imparting offensive crap to other peoples children in countries where you can get the lash for it. It's really dumb like. She got off lightly for her ignorance. Sheer unthinking ignorance. You seem to think African countries should be what you call 'civilized'. You yourself are the lack of food and shelter and 48 hours away from being what you call 'civilised'. Get real. Take a look at the world. If you want everybody to behave like the bored and comfortably numb Europeans and Americans et al then you must share out all the good things so that everybody can become bored and comfortably numb. It's no use complaining that a people are uncivilised whilst half the planet is starving. You should catch them on a better day IMHO. How do 'muslims' undermine other peoples cultures please tell?

I'm not talking about the people who have no food or shelter, im talking about the primitive clerics who impart their lunacy on those very poor people. You think the nuts who ordered she be arrested and jailed have no food or shelter? Tell me, is islamic culture really so weak that it jails a person for naming (perhaps naeivly) an ickle teddy bear after a prophet?

Its laughable that you said religion has nothing to do with it. Please explain how a woman being jailed for naming a teddy bear after a religious prophet has nothing to do with religion?

Playboy

I dont think there is any justification in Islam for any kind of punishment for this woman. As far as i know 'intention' is a very important part of Islamic law. This was an honest mistake and Mohamed who showed himself in many hadith to be a fair and just judge would never have punished this woman nor wanted her punished in shape or form.

Whats happening in Sudan is similar to what happened over the cartoons. You have specific interest groups whipping anger and organizing protests in order to further their own political agenda against the west. The majority of Muslims in Sudan and the rest of the world think that this whole situation is just as ridiculous as anyone in the west. The Sudanese government handled the whole situation very badly and gave these hardline and extremist groups a platform on the world stage. Again we are going to see people in the west become further entrenched in unfair and negative stereotypes of Muslims based on the actions of a few extremists who are given much too air time in the western media. It's all really a sad affair and I feel sorry for Muslims everywhere. I do think though that the moderates in Islam should shout louder and try to find a platform condemning this sort of thing .. but I understand this isnt easy because the media also have their own political agenda.

And Sean .. relax for god sake. Really what are you on about? This woman is an innocent victim of a simple misjudgement which could happen to anyone. She doesnt deserve to be punished by anyone for her actions and if you think she does then quite frankly you should take an IQ test. And what kind of Christian are you if you dont believe Jesus is divine? Post Nicean is a hell of a long time ago. Are you some kind of Gnostic?

Zirconia

SubjectSean wrote: »

She might as well have been.

But she wasn't! And even if she were to do this there shouldn't be beatings or prison sentences as a result.

Just because you can't see this only shows me you haven't the slightest clue about Sudan.

Just because it's their culture dosent make their behaviour acceptable. For some reason, you seem to think it is from your posts so far? I respect other cultures only as long as they behave in a fair reasonable and humane manner. In some cultures, it is okay to beat or even kill your wife apparently, stone people to death, cut of their hands etc. These societies deserve no respect whatsoever, and we shouldn't touch their likes of them with a barge pole, and this includes those who's government or judicial system have the power or inclination to put someone in prison or beat them over a difference in belief as in this case

The post I replied to wasn't talking about the "governing authorities" it was talking about a mob baying for blood. I was merely pointing out that it would be relatively easy to get a mob baying for blood in our own 'civilised' nation

Well the point I was making is not only is the angry mob of morons out to get her, but she also has the government/judicial after her. If she was to over the line in the situation you presented here (which is a line that is orders of magnitude past what she did), maybe she'd provoke a mob reaction (only maybe...), but she'd be protected by the authorities

As others have pointed out, she didn't actually do anything herself but to me that is beside the point. If for some strange reason, she decided to take it upon herself to insult Islam, the worst that should have happened, if Islam was as civilized as it seems to make itself out to be, would be that she should be told that the authorities strongly disapproved of her behaviour. Full stop. Perhaps she should have lost her job (if the school she was working for was Islamic), and she might be advised to leave the country if the authorities felt that she was endangered by elements in the general population, and they should have in such a case provided protection to her until she could leave.

But as we can see, they don't behave like this, and they don't deserve any respect because of this.

SubjectSean

Playboy wrote: »

I dont think there is any justification in Islam for any kind of punishment for this woman. As far as i know 'intention' is a very important part of Islamic law. This was an honest mistake and Mohamed who showed himself in many hadith to be a fair and just judge would never have punished this woman nor wanted her punished in shape or form.

Whats happening in Sudan is similar to what happened over the cartoons. You have specific interest groups whipping anger and organizing protests in order to further their own political agenda against the west. The majority of Muslims in Sudan and the rest of the world think that this whole situation is just as ridiculous as anyone in the west. The Sudanese government handled the whole situation very badly and gave these hardline and extremist groups a platform on the world stage. Again we are going to see people in the west become further entrenched in unfair and negative stereotypes of Muslims based on the actions of a few extremists who are given much too air time in the western media. It's all really a sad affair and I feel sorry for Muslims everywhere. I do think though that the moderates in Islam should shout louder and try to find a platform condemning this sort of thing .. but I understand this isnt easy because the media also have their own political agenda.

And Sean .. relax for god sake. Really what are you on about? This woman is an innocent victim of a simple misjudgement which could happen to anyone. She doesnt deserve to be punished by anyone for her actions and if you think she does then quite frankly you should take an IQ test. And what kind of Christian are you if you dont believe Jesus is divine? Post Nicean is a hell of a long time ago. Are you some kind of Gnostic?

Agreed that she doesn't 'deserve' to be punished for her actions but she should expect to be punished for being so dumb. She was in Sudan, life is harsh in Sudan, there are very much worse things going on in Sudan than this for people to get upset about. That's about as clear as I can put it. I am not a gnostic I just don't see where Jesus ever said he was divine. Except maybe like Mansūr-e Hallāj.

the_syco

SubjectSean wrote: »

Agreed that she doesn't 'deserve' to be punished for her actions but she should expect to be punished for being so dumb. She was in Sudan, life is harsh in Sudan, there are very much worse things going on in Sudan than this for people to get upset about.

I'm going to have to agree with the troll. The woman getting off with 15 days and deportation is nothing. If she got off freely, the government would have riots all over the country, and maybe even replaced.

If she wasn't a westerner, she would have probably being killed by now.

By her own family.

To keep their "honour".

The world they live in, and our world are two different worlds. Oh, and 200 years ago, we were "civilised", but still we treated women like 2nd class people, so being "civilised" means f**k all.

SubjectSean

the_syco wrote: »

I'm going to have to agree with the troll. The woman getting off with 15 days and deportation is nothing. If she got off freely, the government would have riots all over the country, and maybe even replaced.

If she wasn't a westerner, she would have probably being killed by now.

By her own family.

To keep their "honour".

The world they live in, and our world are two different worlds. Oh, and 200 years ago, we were "civilised", but still we treated women like 2nd class people, so being "civilised" means f**k all.

Not a troll. It astounds me how jumped up and righteous Europeans get when it is one of their own. There is blue f**king murder going on in Sudan and all these people who are now squealing outrage for a stupid woman belittle the real suffering and injustice that goes on there.

Latchy

=SubjectSean;54547520]I don't give her any credit. How could she possibly be in Sudan and not know that this was offensive. However she didn't think she was risking anything, she is very dumb. Don't get me wrong here I'm no fan of Sudan but I've been in Africa and some of the christian mission schools really p**s me off the way they go about undermining other peoples cultures as if they had a right.

Fair enough , quite a lot of british muslims have being quoted in the british press as saying the whole thing is OTT ,such as the ones below below from a letters page ,

1 I dont know of any muslims who have being insulted by this teddy bear .I am a muslim and i've being far more concerned about the safe return of Gillian Gibbons. Plase dont taint britains muslim community with an action that has no basis in Islam .Sudan wants us to give a bloody nose by playing a political game .All i and thousends of of my fellow brits want is Gillian back .

2 I find little to admire about a faith that demanded 40 lashs for a teacher allowing her pupils to call a tedy bear Muhammad .It s barbaric.How can muslim leaders ever expect us to understand their religion when they can dish out such violent punishment ?

3 Sudan is devastated by cival war ,poverty and starvation .Outside angencies pump billions into a country to ease it's troubles.It's time to look at what type of regime they are popping up .

According to that online concoction of an encyclopedia
"the term "golliwogg" was used both as a reference to the children's toy and as a generic, racist term for blacks. In Britain and its colonies, "golliwogg" perhaps became "wog" a racial slur applied to dark-skinned peoples worldwide, including Africans, Italians and other Mediterranean people, Native Americans, Middle Easterners, Hispanics, Aborigines, and Indians"

It was the reference to the doll which causd it to be banned in uk due to it's racist tone .

I Shot J.R.

Hobbes wrote: »

I'm curious why the children haven't been punished as well, as they took part in the naming.

My thoughts too, I took it that she was done because she allowed the kids to name the teddy. Too many people have been given coverage in press and on tv defending the punishment, would they get the same coverage if a class of kids were all given 50 lashes?

Splendour

SubjectSean wrote: »

This was a Christian-run School AFAIK. Bet she wouldn't have called the toy Jesus.

Well hopefully you're right SubjectSean and if she is a Christian, she'll have a few days to share her Christian faith with other women she is imprisioned with. God can make a leather purse out of a sow's ear

SubjectSean

Splendour wrote: »

Well hopefully you're right SubjectSean and if she is a Christian, she'll have a few days to share her Christian faith with other women she is imprisioned with. God can make a leather purse out of a sow's ear

Agreed Splendour, and maybe people will draw the salutory lesson from all of this, that if you're ever in a country less well off or...'civilised' than the one you hail from, either get out quick or make damn sure fast that you know the rules.

SubjectSean

latchyco wrote: »

It was the reference to the doll which causd it to be banned in uk due to it's racist tone .

Quite literally a racist label, my mates in Manchester used to say that. Mostly gobsmacked was their reaction. The label hung on in there for years though. I really don't see any controversy in getting rid of it, it was about as insulting as you can get and not on a small scale.

Latchy

What we have to remember is all races are capable of making racist remarks. One irk amoung a lot of white british is the black ,asian or otherwise person with a chip on his/her shoulder about whites, and who uses the race card at every oppurtunity,somtimes unnessecarily.

Suff

MarkColeman wrote: »

Ok well i gotta disagree with you on that point. But if thats your opinion, then surely all the cartoonists in the middle east who have been printing vicious anti semetic cartoons for years would then also deserve punishment?

If you research it...Arabs are Semetic so the term anti-semetic donesnt apply also making fun of Jews/Christians/Muslims over political or social issues is fine by me as long as it doesnt insult their religion. You will find NO MiddleEastern newspaper or magazine printing anything that would depict Moses/Christ/Muhammad is any form.

I find it redicuolous that your comparing a cartoon of a political goverment (Isreal, America, Iran, UK for example) to a cartoon of a religious Prophet (Moses, Christ, Muhammad) !!!