british teacher names teddy after prophet - Threads Merged

Latchy

It seems that calling a childs toy (like a teddy) ' Mohammed ' is to muslims cheapening the profit Mohammed's name ,but i still think as it has being said that it is really some radical muslim clerics causing all the bother as we say in the wet ' just stirring up ****'

ScouseMouse

Mordeth wrote: »

the protests, the death threats etc have alot more to do with the economic situation these people find themselves in. They're poor, pissed off at the west and unable to find decent work probably.

So what your saying is the issue is not a teddy called mohammed, its the fact the people are poor and dislike the west?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i'm sure they're pissed off about the teddy, but that's more of the straw that broke the camels back. They're in a pretty horrible situation, day in.. day out.. and probably don't have much to believe in except their religion.

*shrug*

I'm not saying they're not stupid, I'm just saying they're just being human. It's easy to be sensible and offended by this kinda stuff when you're getting your three meals a day, have access to free unlimited amounts of clean drinking water and haven't had to watch your children and friends slowly die from hunger or treatable diseases and they just need somebody to blame.

Latchy

So what your saying is the issue is not a teddy called mohammed, its the fact the people are poor and dislike the west?

The teddy bear thing has being hijacked by muslims in the same way -to a leser extent -that western hostages were kiddnapped by the taliban ,for political gain and /or to show the west how they do business.

Thats not to say that the term ' teddy bear ' wasn't offensive to 'some' muslims

The Design Team

I find it very sad that the government of The Sudan allowed this arrest and trial to happen in the first place. The lady was in the country to help educate the children so that the economic plight that their parents are suffering will be a thing of the past when the kids grow up. The incident happened over a month ago and was only brought to light last week. Surely this is bolting the door after the horse has bolted...

Mind you, when she comes home and is on every news bulletin, newspaper front page and every daytime TV show we might wish that The Sudan Government had locked her up for a bit longer.

(This comment may sound to be in bad taste... but we all know what the press are going to do with her)

heirenach

To Suff. If you had a sister who was a teacher in an irish muslim school and did as this English teacher did.How would your family deal with her,bearing in mind you are living in Ireland under Irish laws ?

heirenach

Sadly there is no democracy and freedom of opinion on this thread.

Lemming

heirenach wrote: »

Sadly there is no democracy and freedom of opinion on this thread.

Sorry to bring the thread off-topic, but boards.ie is not, nor ever has been, a democracy and you are not entitled to 'free speech' since the site-owners are thus liable for anything you say under law.

Hobbes

dlofnep wrote: »

The mere fact that people are in large numbers in the streets calling for her death is proof to me that Islam fails as a religion. Today's world has no place for that sort of thing.

Second sentence is fine, but the first is incorrect. It is more a failing of Sudan tbh. I mean do you see anyone outside of Sudan who is Muslim and screaming for the death of this teacher? I can't find any. I can find numerous Islamic bodies condemning the actions though.

Infront is the soft and cuddly moderator (he's a muslim, I'm not). I'll say this once for the new people. Read the charter. If you are incapable of following the charter there is the Humanities, AfterHours and politics forum which will cater for you.

moe_sizlak

Lemming wrote: »

Sorry to bring the thread off-topic, but boards.ie is not, nor ever has been, a democracy and you are not entitled to 'free speech' since the site-owners are thus liable for anything you say under law.

yeah , our courts are full of lawsuits brought on by people offended by what was said each day on boards

give me a break

Evangelion

SubjectSean wrote: »

I just don't see where Jesus ever said he was divine. Except maybe like Mansūr-e Hallāj.

I believe it was in the part where he said he was the son of God...but you shouldn't worry about that, the print is small, and there's no pictures in the Bible.

Morlar

dlofnep wrote: »

It's my opinion - this thread has received attention from people outside of Islam so don't be suprised if you hear criticism of your religion. Those are my personal thoughts on this whole situation - if you want to ban me for having an opinion that's different to yours, so be it.

I reaffirm my initial point - I've no problem with religion if it's a personal choice but when those beliefs affect how other people can live then it becomes a problem. It's Islam's fault that a woman is in prison - nothing else. It's Islam's fault that a bunch of nutters are running around the street with Machetes calling for her death. I believe Islam fails as a religion because of this, and various other occurances over the past few years.

That's my opinion. This is a public discussion forum, not a concentration camp. We are entitled to an opinion.

InFront wrote: »

Banned

This forum is nothing more than a recruitment tool/public relations exercise for islamists. I honestly think this forum needs to be wrapped up and shut down. It reads exactly the same as an israeli army press release 'everythings fine - dont worry - nothing to see here move along'.

*
What a cop-out. All the moderators here say is - 'no thats not islam thats an islamic countries' interpretation of sharia law.'

Or they say 'I am banning you'.
Every religon is open to criticism - why is it that moderators here feel islam should be above it ? By their rules islam is this perfect unattainable ideal which is above criticism because every instance of islamic society is nothing to do with islam its just that its some wacky country.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Also, accusing all of us of being Islamists is rather insulting

... don't look up.

wes

Mordeth wrote: »

... don't look up.

I deleted the post after seeing what he posted afterwards. Saw no point trying to talk to the guy. Seems he doesn't like the rules here and has taken it personally for some reason.

*Edit*

Looks like the other posts was deleted as well. So this exchange make no sense whatsoever . Best to leave it at that then.

Does go to show however, no matter what Muslims say. Some people will accuse of being Islamists etc even when some of us bother to condemn there behaviour.

Morlar

wes wrote: »

I deleted the post after seeing what he posted afterwards. Saw no point trying to talk to the guy. Seems he doesn't like the rules here and has taken it personally for some reason.

*Edit*

Looks like the other posts was deleted as well. So this exchange make no sense whatsoever .

Does go to show however, no matter what Muslims say. Some people will accuse of being Islamists etc even when some of us bother to condemn there behaviour.

I removed my second one on the offchance that it might actually offend a reasonable muslim if there is such a thing.

Santa Claus

The Design Team wrote: »

I find it very sad that the government of The Sudan allowed this arrest and trial to happen in the first place. The lady was in the country to help educate the children so that the economic plight that their parents are suffering will be a thing of the past when the kids grow up.

This lady was teaching in the international school where the ex-pats and wealthy sudanese send their kids to school so it's highly unlikely that any of the parents or children connected with that school with face economic plight !

wes

Morlar wrote: »

I removed my second one on the offchance that it might actually offend a reasonable muslim if there is such a thing.

You really are trying your best to be popular . Calm down a bit mate. You would think the Muslims here personally arrested the British Woman or something.

Hobbes

Morlar has been permantly banned, mainly for the comment he wasn't quick enough at deleting.

ScumLord

Morlar wrote: »

This forum is nothing more than a recruitment tool/public relations exercise for islamists. I honestly think this forum needs to be wrapped up and shut down. It reads exactly the same as an israeli army press release 'everythings fine - dont worry - nothing to see here move along'.

*
What a cop-out. All the moderators here say is - 'no thats not islam thats an islamic countries' interpretation of sharia law.'

It's true though, I actually have nothing against Shara law in principle, this is a completely different culture in a completely different part of the world and if that's how they want to run they're country then that's up to them. It's mostly the punishments and the role of women that I have a problem with and the fact it seems nigh on impossible to change these things due to the people in charge more than the law itself.

We have seen in western countries how Christians can interpret the bible to come up with all sorts of crazy conclusions and justify murder despite the commandments. It's not unusual for this to happen with very religious people who overlook the true nature of religion (helping us all get along).

The reaction of Muslims in the middle east probably has allot to do with how they think we don't respect them or they're way of life.

InFront

Threads Merged.

Please keep all discussion of the religious side of things here, and Sudanese Politics in Humanities/ Politics/ AH (did I really just suggest that?), if possible:)

Playboy

How much of Sharia law is in the Koran and the hadith and how much is based on precedent? Afaik a lot of Sharia is based on precedent and it has developed as a system like other systems of law over the centuries. I dont think it is fair assume that one understanding or version of Sharia law is Islamic. If the critics on here spent a little bit more time reading about Islam and how it developed and the different interpretations of Islamic law before jumping to conclusions then everyone would save a lot of time. Before you criticize something educate yourslef first. Read the Koran and some explanatory literature before getting on your high horse.

Just like Christianity Islam is not one unified religion. Countries and peoples interpretations differ greatly just like in Christianity. It wasnt so long ago that we didnt have a seperation of Church and State in most western countries. Islam at the end of the day is supposed to be the middle way. It emphasizes moderation and not excess. Mohammed from the hadith available was a very wise, fair and just person. He wasnt going around chopping off hands and stoning people at every available oppurtunity like the media would like us to believe. He would never have condemned this woman to any sort of punishment. The problem we have in countries like Sudan as SubjectSean has already said is poverty, ignorance and culture. Islam is twisted by these people who either do it for their own agenda or out of ignorance. You cannot blame the religion for what is happening. It's like trying to blame John Lennon's death on Catcher in the Rye.

ScumLord

micmclo wrote: »

Good question.
And just to add it it, how is that that Mohammad is a common name (Cassius Clay is a famous example) but it's different in this case?
Is the teddy a false idol?

Seems pretty straight forward to me, teddy= object, Child=person. Person, ok to call Mohammad. Teddy or anything that's not a person, not ok. It's a false idol, I'd say if you had the patients to read the bible it's probably the same in Christian religions.

Suff

There were no riots in the Middle East over this. The only demonstrations were held in Sudan alone which just shows how different cultures/people react differently to an issue such as this one.

Like I've stated before Muhammad/ Moses/ Jesus are common names in the Islamic world. The pronouncieation of it in Arabic is different to the Prophet's name.
example: Muhammad in Arabic is written like this: محمد
People tend to pronounce it: Mahammad when refering to people named after the Prophet (PBUH) and pronounce it Muhammad when refering to the prohpet. However one can't really expect others to know or follow this method but I just thought to point it out.

Sharea Law is not bad as people or the media shows it to be, I would ask pepole to please read about if before generalising on the subject.

I really don't see an issue with this at all, its genuine and innocent. I'm sure you'd find a teddy somewhere in the world called Muhammad/Mahammad.

My personal view on this matter: that the people in Sudan saw it as another western attempt to insult Islam and reacted. Other Islamic communities/countires did not react like the Sudanese goverment did, most of them understood it was a misunderstanding.

SubjectSean

Evangelion wrote: »

I believe it was in the part where he said he was the son of God...but you shouldn't worry about that, the print is small, and there's no pictures in the Bible.

He said we were all sons of God so it's hardly surprising he'd refer to himself as such.

Evangelion

SubjectSean wrote: »

He said we were all sons of God so it's hardly surprising he'd refer to himself as such.

He makes destinct difference between him being the son of God and that metaphor.


Just a quick question is either Muhammad/Mahammad a title for the prophet, or his actual name? and if it's a name, was he the 1st or was it a common name before?
Because if it was, then it would be like banning things being named Bob, because a Bob becomes a major religious figure in the future.

Suff

Evangelion wrote: »

Just a quick question is either Muhammad/Mahammad a title for the prophet, or his actual name? and if it's a name, was he the 1st or was it a common name before?
Because if it was, then it would be like banning things being named Bob, because a Bob becomes a major religious figure in the future.

Muhammad is his actual name (PBUH), as far as my knowledge goes He was the first to have such a name. I think it all has to do with logic and the general sense of whats appropriate and whats not.
ok a silly exmaple; if you a farmer called an animal Jesus or Moses that would be a big insult to those figures while naming people after them is considered an honor.

PDN

She should just be grateful she wasn't a victim of rape - then the penalty would be 200 lashes & six months in jail.

SubjectSean

PDN wrote: »

She should just be grateful she wasn't a victim of rape - then the penalty would be 200 lashes & six months in jail.

I'd venture that rape isn't a crime in Sudan. The silly woman shoud be greatful that the Government thugs were competant enough to keep her apart from the people she'd so witlessly offended.

InFront

PDN wrote: »

She should just be grateful she wasn't a victim of rape - then the penalty would be 200 lashes & six months in jail.

Link to relevant fatawa please?

ScumLord

SubjectSean wrote: »

I'd venture that rape isn't a crime in Sudan. The silly woman shoud be greatful that the Government thugs were competant enough to keep her apart from the people she'd so witlessly offended.

If your basing that on what happened to that other girl, remember those men got 5 years in jail. She wasn't punished for being raped. It has to be illegal to rape a woman if it's illegal to sit in a car alone with a woman your not married to I'd assume it's very illegal to have sex with her consensual or not.