Could a drug be the answer?

pepsi1234

Sorry for the late reply.

I was diagnosed with PTSD and was prescribed Zyprexa. I had known about it before I developed PTSD (A friend with Tourette's Syndrome who also stuttered took it and she told me about it) and had always wanted to try it.

Aside, stuttering as a form of stuttering, interesting read : http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/isad6/papers/starkweather6.html

So it was a blessing in disguise, I guess. I haven't taken it for a week now (due to exams) and have had no speech problems whatsoever, mainly due to the different way I think about speaking and my attitude towards it now, completely different.

Bass Cadet, I would recommend going to a doctor with a print out of something like this;-
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a714110971~db=all~order=page
or any other research article.
Preferably go to a psychiatrist as they prescribe it everyday and have more knowledge about it.
I wouldn't worry about the side-effects too much, if a certain percentage developed diabetes the drug would be taken off the market. Furthermore the dose is so low, that the risk and side effects are minimal. Even with a dose of 2.5mg you might see a big improvement (~15% of normal dose)
It might take a few weeks (4-6 ) to see the full effects. The time of the day you take it will also affect the results. I prefer to take it in the morning as the effects kick/ed in during the day, when I need/ed it!
Do let us know what your descision is and how you get on (and anyone else for that matter)

Take care

SimpleSam06

pepsi1234 wrote: »

I haven't taken it for a week now (due to exams) and have had no speech problems whatsoever, mainly due to the different way I think about speaking and my attitude towards it now, completely different.

Does that not say it all about the relative value of this drug or any drug wrt stammering?

Bass Cadet

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

Does that not say it all about the relative value of this drug or any drug wrt stammering?

I presume you mean placebo? I don't see how its any different from any other form of treatment that seems to 'work'. Confidence builds up from being fluent in situations you previously weren't confident in. So it makes sense that even if the treatment is discontinued, the positive effects may still apply because the negative associations have been broken down over a period of time...

Bass Cadet

pepsi1234 wrote: »

Sorry for the late reply.

I was diagnosed with PTSD and was prescribed Zyprexa. I had known about it before I developed PTSD (A friend with Tourette's Syndrome who also stuttered took it and she told me about it) and had always wanted to try it.

Aside, stuttering as a form of stuttering, interesting read : http://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/isad6/papers/starkweather6.html

So it was a blessing in disguise, I guess. I haven't taken it for a week now (due to exams) and have had no speech problems whatsoever, mainly due to the different way I think about speaking and my attitude towards it now, completely different.

Bass Cadet, I would recommend going to a doctor with a print out of something like this;-
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a714110971~db=all~order=page
or any other research article.
Preferably go to a psychiatrist as they prescribe it everyday and have more knowledge about it.
I wouldn't worry about the side-effects too much, if a certain percentage developed diabetes the drug would be taken off the market. Furthermore the dose is so low, that the risk and side effects are minimal. Even with a dose of 2.5mg you might see a big improvement (~15% of normal dose)
It might take a few weeks (4-6 ) to see the full effects. The time of the day you take it will also affect the results. I prefer to take it in the morning as the effects kick/ed in during the day, when I need/ed it!
Do let us know what your descision is and how you get on (and anyone else for that matter)

Take care

Thanks for the info. Those articles are really interesting. I'll be discussing it with my doctor. I've also been doing some research on other medications like anti-depressants which are known to have positive effects on stuttering (lexapro being one). I'm really interested in trying to use some sort of medication in conjunction with other therapies like NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) and even the basic McGuire technique.

Thanks very much for the information and I'll let you know how I get on. Likewise any more information you have or any further progress updates about your treatment with zyprexa would be very much appreciated...Cheers

Oh, meant to ask...I presume these kind of medications are taken on the basis that you should not mix them with alcohol in any way? I know I can ask the doctor about that but has zyprexa hindered your social life in anyway? (Assuming you drink alcohol in the first place)

SimpleSam06

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I presume you mean placebo? I don't see how its any different from any other form of treatment that seems to 'work'. Confidence builds up from being fluent in situations you previously weren't confident in. So it makes sense that even if the treatment is discontinued, the positive effects may still apply because the negative associations have been broken down over a period of time...

There is no placebo effect going on here, since you aren't taking something in place of the "confidence" enhancing drugs. It does underline the fact that the problem is not chemical, so loading yourself up with chemicals which bring with them multiple side effects isn't the best way to be rid of a stammer. The problem is psychological, and I would be strongly opposed to any chemical intervention, tbh.

Bass Cadet

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

There is no placebo effect going on here, since you aren't taking something in place of the "confidence" enhancing drugs.

I thought you were dismissing the medication as simply being a placebo effect...The original suggestion was that the OP has stopped taking the drug, yet the positive effects have not been diminished. This is probably due to the fact that the OP's confidence levels in speaking situations have risen and certain situations have become less anxious for him...not because of the drug directly but because each good speaking experience has built up a level of confidence where the anxiety is no longer associated with a particular speaking situation even when the medication is discontinued.

SimpleSam06 wrote: »

It does underline the fact that the problem is not chemical, so loading yourself up with chemicals which bring with them multiple side effects isn't the best way to be rid of a stammer. The problem is psychological, and I would be strongly opposed to any chemical intervention, tbh.

Well, what it underlines is that there is a huge amount of anxiety associated with stammering and while the cause of stammering may not be chemical, the anxiety can be controlled, thus helping to alleviate the 'symptoms' of stammering.

No-one has said they're 'loading' themselves with chemicals. What it seems to me is that these dosages are a lot smaller than usual for the actual drug and having done a bit of research on the medications mentioned, it seems if you prepare correctly and consult a professional regularly there is very little danger (none at all according to some) with these side effects. If side effects become a problem, you simply stop taking the medication and the side effects stop.

I agree, the problem is psychological but the anxiety is something that can be controlled with medication so if something can help you along the way, then it shouldn't be dismissed imo

SimpleSam06

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I thought you were dismissing the medication as simply being a placebo effect...

No the medication does what it says on the tin, no doubt, but...

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I agree, the problem is psychological but the anxiety is something that can be controlled with medication so if something can help you along the way, then it shouldn't be dismissed imo

Perhaps not, but by learning to control it yourself you have a lot more hope of a long term resolution than if you pop a few pills. You also run the risk of psychological dependancy on the drugs. Pain is often a sign of something going wrong somewhere, and by suppressing it rather than dealing with it you could exacerbate the condition.

Of course all this is spoken from the hard won perspective of someone who has more or less completely beaten a serious stammer without the use of chemicals, but your mileage may vary. Who knows, perhaps I took the long way round.

raemie21

Some children presenting with ADHD and a stutter have been prescribed Ritalin (to target the ADHD symptoms) and it has also helped their stutter, in some cases quite significantly.No published articles yet or anything, just clinical anecdotes.

Know that's not quite on topic but just thought I'd throw it in there.

Esel

Suggest this thread be merged with http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055192142

Jumbo156

pepsi1234 wrote: »

So it was a blessing in disguise, I guess. I haven't taken it for a week now (due to exams) and have had no speech problems whatsoever, mainly due to the different way I think about speaking and my attitude towards it now, completely different.

I would never criticise anyone doing whatever they need to to lose a speech impediment but is it not this reasoning that has helped your stutter and not the drugs?

pepsi1234

It's by reducing my avoidances that have helped me develop different beliefs,perceptions and attitudes about my speech. If I didnt have the 'crutch' of a drug I would have always stayed in my shell, locked in my negative beliefs.
This is why a lot of people have had success in the Maguire Program, in my opinion. They enter situations they previously avoided and change the way they think about their speech. After all a positive system breeds on a positive system.

Bass Cadet

pepsi1234 wrote: »

It's by reducing my avoidances that have helped me develop different beliefs,perceptions and attitudes about my speech. If I didnt have the 'crutch' of a drug I would have always stayed in my shell, locked in my negative beliefs.
This is why a lot of people have had success in the Maguire Program, in my opinion. They enter situations they previously avoided and change the way they think about their speech. After all a positive system breeds on a positive system.

Pepsi, what kind of stammer did you have before you started the medication? Was it overt or covert? Would you have stammered in particular situations or randomly with anybody at all? Would you have been more fluent with family & friends rather than strangers?, etc

Bass Cadet

I've talked to my GP recently about the possibility of trying some of these medications. He said he doesn't like the idea of prescribing a psychotic drug for someone who doesn't have schizophrenia. He said the side effects might be too much to handle and they can be quite addictive and hard to come off.

We chatted some more about alternatives and I mentioned another drug that I have been doing alot of research on, 'lexapro'. This is an anti-depressant but also an anti-anxiety pill. He agreed that this would be a much better alternative or to at least try a course of as the side effects are very slight if any and are not addictive. So, I've been trying them for the last week and a half. We agreed that I should incorporate this mediacation into techniques I already use like McGuire and Neuro Linguistic Programming.

I've found that on the whole, my fluency has improved, not in any spectacular fashion but the anxiety I feel before speaking has definately decreased. Whenever I concentrate on using my breathing techniques, I find I can concentrate on it much more and don't feel as self-conscious about it. Anyway, he reckons it'll take a couple of weeks before I may see any real results, if any at all so maybe I'm seeing a bit of a placebo effect here intially.

For the first few days I had some side effects like a lack of appitite (I later found out that people use lexapro as a slimming drug!) and some tiredness. Those side effects seem to be going now as my body is getting used to the medication and the appitite is coming back with a vengence! :pac:

Oh, he also said that zyprexa is banned in the Snooker world since the 70's, as players used to take it to keep their hands steady in big tournaments where they'd be under alot of pressure! This gave them an unfair advantage...interesting I thought anyway!

He also said its ok to have a few drinks while on lexapro, just not to overdo it. I've noticed that ironically, my speach now gets slightly worse when I drink whereas before my speech would improve if I was drinking! :eek: Maybe as good a reason now as any other to give up the demon drink

Anyway, I'll keep you all up to date with my progress and feel free to ask any questions

Esel

Bass Cadet wrote: »

I've talked to my GP recently about the possibility of trying some of these medications. He said he doesn't like the idea of prescribing a psychotic drug for someone who doesn't have schizophrenia. He said the side effects might be too much to handle and they can be quite addictive and hard to come off.

We chatted some more about alternatives and I mentioned another drug that I have been doing alot of research on, 'lexapro'. This is an anti-depressant but also an anti-anxiety pill. He agreed that this would be a much better alternative or to at least try a course of as the side effects are very slight if any and are not addictive. So, I've been trying them for the last week and a half. We agreed that I should incorporate this mediacation into techniques I already use like McGuire and Neuro Linguistic Programming.

I've found that on the whole, my fluency has improved, not in any spectacular fashion but the anxiety I feel before speaking has definately decreased. Whenever I concentrate on using my breathing techniques, I find I can concentrate on it much more and don't feel as self-conscious about it. Anyway, he reckons it'll take a couple of weeks before I may see any real results, if any at all so maybe I'm seeing a bit of a placebo effect here intially.

For the first few days I had some side effects like a lack of appitite (I later found out that people use lexapro as a slimming drug!) and some tiredness. Those side effects seem to be going now as my body is getting used to the medication and the appitite is coming back with a vengence! :pac:

Oh, he also said that zyprexa (inderal) is banned in the Snooker world since the 70's, as players used to take it to keep their hands steady in big tournaments where they'd be under alot of pressure! This gave them an unfair advantage...interesting I thought anyway!

He also said its ok to have a few drinks while on lexapro, just not to overdo it. I've noticed that ironically, my speach now gets slightly worse when I drink whereas before my speech would improve if I was drinking! :eek: Maybe as good a reason now as any other to give up the demon drink

Anyway, I'll keep you all up to date with my progress and feel free to ask any questions

However, olanzapine (Zyprexa) fits the dopamine hypothesis; escitalopram (Lexapro) does not. The dosage of olanzapine used for stuttering is the smallest available afaik (2.5mg) and therefore the side-effects would be minimal imo. I was not aware of any addiction concerns relating to olanzapine, and I think your doctor may have been over-cautious in this regard. Ianad though!

You also mentioned 'zyprexa (inderal)'. These are two different drugs. Zyprexa (trade name) is olanzapine (approved or 'generic' name). Inderal is propranolol, a beta blocker medication.

Bass Cadet

esel wrote: »

However, olanzapine (Zyprexa) fits the dopamine hypothesis; escitalopram (Lexapro) does not. The dosage of olanzapine used for stuttering is the smallest available afaik (2.5mg) and therefore the side-effects would be minimal imo. I was not aware of any addiction concerns relating to olanzapine, and I think your doctor may have been over-cautious in this regard. Ianad though!

Well, all I can go on is what my Doctor told me, he's the professional with 40 years experience. I'm no doctor, so I'm taking his advice. The first thing he mentioned to me was the trouble people have coming off this drug as he said its been known to be addictive, although he did say it depends on the individual.

As regards the dopamine question regarding Lexapro, my doctor said it has a small effect on dopamine but obviously not the same as zyprexa.

I can still start on the zyprexa if I want but he said he'd have serious reservations about prescribing it to me. Maybe he is being cautious but I can certainly understand his reasons for being so.

You also mentioned 'zyprexa (inderal)'. These are two different drugs. Zyprexa (trade name) is olanzapine (approved or 'generic' name). Inderal is propranolol, a beta blocker medication.

Oops, I think I made a mistake there...I'll edit my post

In fact this is where I got the 'inderal' into my head from http://www.stutteringforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352

Its a very interesting thread by someone who swears by a combination of Propranolol (Inderal) and Lexapro with no side effects (according to him although research seems to back this up).

allislost81

you guys hear anything about pagoclone? its supposed to come out some time this year. Can't wait to try something, anything!

allislost81

esel wrote: »

I am interested in your theories, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter - when you start making sense.

I can also confirm that as well. Me and my brother stutter and everytime we did X, we spoke perfectly. It felt like a dream. We also stutter less the more we drink or the more we smoked marijuana. But nothing was as smooth as Xtasy. These new pills mention lowering dopamine but i dont see the corralation in lowering dopamine when Xtasy is made to do the opposite.

Another correlation im seeing is stuttering linked to premature ejaculation. I can admit i have this problem so i hope these pills can kill two birds with one stone.

oscarBravo

Threads merged/

Macca206

Are these available only on prescription? And which would anyone recommend (of those that have taken them) ?

SimpleSam06

allislost81 wrote: »

Another correlation im seeing is stuttering linked to premature ejaculation.

Eh? I never heard of anything like that. Might be linked in some way though, good luck with that.

Twinksno1flan

esel wrote: »

Did you read my post?

Nice generalisation there! Any other balanced comments?

Theres nothing general about, its entirely obvious.