"The Auld Racism"

the_syco

marcsignal wrote: »

That old line "I'm not a racist, cos I've got friends who are n|ggers, ch|nks, and pak|es" dosen't wash with me, I really don't think a true Racist would even entertain the idea of having any friends from another ethnic group.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that I hate when someone says "I'm not a racist cos I've friends of other races", and but still talks like a racist.

marcsignal

the_syco wrote: »

I think you misunderstood me. I meant that I hate when someone says "I'm not a racist cos I've friends of other races", and but still talks like a racist.

ah, sorry, i did misunderstand, yep i've met a few people like that.

I've also had to explain to them, that a 'friend', in this context, would generally speaking, be someone you know, and maybe socialise with from time to time, as opposed to the chinese worker/manager bloke you know from regularlly going into eddie rockets, after spending all night drinking with your exclusively 'white' mates in the pub, if you understand ?

Having said all that, I didn't see anything in DrumSteve's post that would make me think he was a racist, or even had racist tendancies ?

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=aHh3ykPQEl4

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=m6qTyDFtLEU

Sorry, I just HAD to throw these in :-)

djpbarry

marcsignal wrote: »

But as an example, if your neighbour in an Apartment block was Muslim, I'd consider it just good manners, and having consideration for him/her by avoiding having loud, late night parties during Ramadam. In that case his race might be an issue, when plannng a party, but not necessarily a problem.

I think you're confusing race with religion here, but to be honest, I would not extend special treatment to anyone based on their customs. I treat everyone with the same respect, regardless of their background.

marcsignal wrote: »

I personally think, it's more likely, that many people disliked his 'West Brit' persona and his tendancy to come over as arrogant.

Well, first of all, he is British - it's not a persona. Secondly, his sole purpose is to fill column inches and stir up controversy. I have absolutely no problem discussing immigration, as long as it's done in a rational manner.

marcsignal wrote: »

if 'Brian Dobson' was to make a similar remark about Robert Mugabe, who IMO is also a Racist Pig, even in private circles, I believe he would be missing form the 6 one news pretty sharpish.

Yeah, you're probably right there. Then again, I wouldn't expect Brian Dobson to make derogatory comments about Bernard Manning either!

EF wrote: »

Not every immigrant is a legitimate asylum seeker, in fact very few are in Ireland

Not entirely sure what you're getting at here?

the_syco wrote: »

And if you state that a lot the black people in Africe / the US / etc, are poor, than you're a racist.

No, but if I were to say that all black people in America are badly educated, that would be a sweeping generalisation and it would, of course, be a racist statement.

the_syco wrote: »

My point: mentioning the words "immigrant" and "immigration" is usually followed by "you're a racist".

If you happen to be in the company of RAR, then yes, you might be accused of being racist, but who cares - they're extremists.

the_syco wrote: »

No crosses, so jewellery, no headscarf's, or those thing the muslim women wear, covering them from head to toe.

Well, you can't change the way people dress - that's their business. If someone wants to wear a scarf on their head, who am I (or anyone else for that matter) to tell them they can't do that?

the_syco wrote: »

I don't know either of them, but to condemn one person for name-calling, but to condoning someone else for name calling the person they condemned reeks of double standards.

I think accusing Bernard Manning of "name-calling" is being rather generous!

ojewriej wrote: »

Ok then. What do you think the figure is?

The population in 1996 was about 3.6 million, of which about 93% were Irish-born. In 2006, the population was about 4.2 million, of which about 85% were Irish-born. That's an increase in non-Irish born residents of about 380,000.

ojewriej wrote: »

But people who can actually do something about it won't even try, because they don't wont to be branded a racist.

Well that depends. If someone announces on RTE that
2there are too many immigrants in Ireland"

ojewriej wrote: »

So what are his warped ideas?

Well, he has excused racism on the grounds that there are too many immigrants in the country:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/the-problem-isnt-racism-its-the-tidal-wave-of-immigrants-1071385.html

He has also advocated banning Muslims from Ireland, on more than one occasion:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/theres-nowhere-to-hide-in-this-new-world-of-war-1064593.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/forget-lilylivered-liberalism-time-to-take-stand-and-say-we-dont-want-muslim-immigrants-1038583.html

Anyway, I don’t want this turning into a Kevin Myers debate.

the_syco

djpbarry wrote:

the_syco wrote:

djpbarry wrote:

Religious symbolism has no place in public buildings.

I agree on this one. No crosses, so jewellery, no headscarf's, or those thing the muslim women wear, covering them from head to toe.

Well, you can't change the way people dress - that's their business. If someone wants to wear a scarf on their head, who am I (or anyone else for that matter) to tell them they can't do that?

And who are you (or anyone else for that matter) to tell them not to have religious symbolism in public buildings?

djpbarry

the_syco wrote: »

And who are you (or anyone else for that matter) to tell them not to have religious symbolism in public buildings?

Well, our state institutions are supposed to be secular. Take an Garda Síochána for example. I'm sure you recall the well-publicised case of the Sikh lad who was not allowed to wear his turban while on duty for the Gardaí as, apparently, an Garda Síochána is a secular organisation? Well, if I enter my local Garda Station, I am greeted by the Virgin Mary on one wall and a crucifix on the other. If the Gardaí are secular, as we have been told, then they should not be there.

Zambia

the_syco wrote: »

And if you state that a lot the black people in Africe / the US / etc, are poor, than you're a racist.


"If you think there are lots of immigrants coming in to theis country, you must be a racist!"

"If you think that immigration is ANYTHING but 100% ok, you must be racist."

"If you think that we should look after the poor on our street, before looking after a non-Irish person, you're a racist Nazi."

"If you discuss a way that an immigrant can integrate into our society, you're racist: as we must not stop them from bringing in their customs."

My point: mentioning the words "immigrant" and "immigration" is usually followed by "you're a racist". This is not a discussion, it's bo||ox. The above are examples I've seen people sprouting, and are not my own beliefs

I agree with all the piont's above and have pretty much accepted that I must be a little racist*. However I do believe in a mutual respect for everyone regardless of background.

However ask yourself this

if every country in the EEC was asked to take a vote on allowing uncontrolled migration from africa and asia to name two , would any country vote it in.

In my opinion no not one country would allow it , so I guess the whole EEC is racist as an entity.

* if its not a boolean expression

ParkRunner

Not entirely sure what you're getting at here?

What I meant really was that very few immigrants who apply for asylum in this country are granted refugee status, most of them are bogus, which in my opinion only adds to any negative opinion towards them. It is a huge cost to the State having to fund their accommodation during the asylum process and any subsequent legal proceedings taken against the State if a deportation order is made against them.

cabinteelytom

Accusations of racism have been a way of pouring suppressive fire on rational debate about serious issues for which our society has to pass legislation and devote resources ; and which may have long term consequences for the next and future generations. Some people didn't want that. They wanted decisions made on a basis of emotionalism, knee-jerk reactions, and generalisation from the anecdotal single case, to all cases of an arbitrarily chosen similar class.
If we have grown out of this, that is welcome maturity.

marcsignal

I was shocked, but not surprised, if you understand ? at the percentage of people who voted to change the citizenship loophole in, was it 2004 ? wasn't it 89% or something like that ? I can't remember exactly ?

I honestly believe, it was almost as if 'some' people voted, to close the loophole, as a reactionary backlash, against the PC minefield we are living in these days.

I also think it just shows, that people may say one thing in public, or on a forum like this one, but put them in a private polling booth, and they will say what they really think, deep down.

ojewriej

djpbarry wrote: »

The population in 1996 was about 3.6 million, of which about 93% were Irish-born. In 2006, the population was about 4.2 million, of which about 85% were Irish-born. That's an increase in non-Irish born residents of about 380,000.

That's the official figures - real ones are probably twice as high. But again, for arguments sake lets asume that 15% is a real figures. 15%, that's double in ten years. And trend seems to continue. Yoeu really can't see any problems with that?

djpbarry wrote: »

Well that depends. If someone announces on RTE that
2there are too many immigrants in Ireland"

Sorry, don't really get that point

djpbarry wrote: »

Well, he has excused racism on the grounds that there are too many immigrants in the country:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/the-problem-isnt-racism-its-the-tidal-wave-of-immigrants-1071385.html

Don't really see how he excuses racism here.

djpbarry wrote: »

He has also advocated banning Muslims from Ireland, on more than one occasion:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/theres-nowhere-to-hide-in-this-new-world-of-war-1064593.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/forget-lilylivered-liberalism-time-to-take-stand-and-say-we-dont-want-muslim-immigrants-1038583.html

Anyway, I don’t want this turning into a Kevin Myers debate.

Some people would say he makes good points here. But that's noit the point anyway - the point is that he at least tries to raise the issue, and basicaly he is being shunned for that. maybe about instead of branding him racist and ignoring him someone should answer his questions. Shouldn't be too hard if his ideas are so warped.

DrumSteve

marcsignal wrote: »

Having said all that, I didn't see anything in DrumSteve's post that would make me think he was a racist, or even had racist tendancies ?

Thanks man.

And i dont like the incinuation that i am a racist. Cos I ain't.

djpbarry

EF wrote: »

What I meant really was that very few immigrants who apply for asylum in this country are granted refugee status, most of them are bogus, which in my opinion only adds to any negative opinion towards them. It is a huge cost to the State having to fund their accommodation during the asylum process and any subsequent legal proceedings taken against the State if a deportation order is made against them.

Ok, first off let's make the distinction between immigrants and asylum seekers - two very different things.

Now, you are correct in saying that the asylum process is far too drawn out, which benefits neither the state nor the applicant. However, it should be pointed out that refugee status is sometimes granted on appeal.

marcsignal wrote: »

I was shocked, but not surprised, if you understand ? at the percentage of people who voted to change the citizenship loophole in, was it 2004 ? wasn't it 89% or something like that ? I can't remember exactly ?

I was very surprised at that result myself, but I think it just reflects the cross-section of the population who voted? Just a thought. I'm not sure what the turn-out was.

ojewriej wrote: »

That's the official figures - real ones are probably twice as high. But again, for arguments sake lets asume that 15% is a real figures. 15%, that's double in ten years. And trend seems to continue.

Now, this is exactly the sort of irrational, Myers-esque type arguments I'm talking about. Why are the real figures for the number of foreign nationals living here likely to be twice as high? Based on what? Why is it that the census got the number of Irish people spot-on but was way off when it comes to non-Irish? I'm not saying the census is perfect, but surely, any flaws in the system would be reflected across all results? 15% seems like a reasonable figure to me. Granted, in some areas it will be higher (where I live for example) but in others it will be lower.

Why would the trend continue? The economy is slowing, less (full-time) jobs are being created and rent is going up. Would you emigrate to a country if you couldn't get a job or afford somewhere to live? Of course you wouldn't, you go somewhere with better prospects. Migration is, for the most part, self-regulating. If this was not the case, then tens of thousands of Irish people would still be emigrating to the UK and the US. This of course is not the case; in fact, the opposite is true.

ojewriej wrote:

But people who can actually do something about it won't even try, because they don't wont to be branded a racist.

Well, I'm not exactly sure who these "people" are (I'm going to assume you mean TD's) and I'm not sure what you mean by "do something about it"?

ojewriej wrote: »

Don't really see how he excuses racism here.

Last paragraph:

Whether Irish people are "racist" is irrelevant

No, it is not irrelevant. Racism is inexcusable and should not be ignored or overlooked, as is the case here.

ojewriej wrote: »

Some people would say he makes good points here. But that's noit the point anyway - the point is that he at least tries to raise the issue, and basicaly he is being shunned for that.

What "issue" would this be? The fact that he's an Islamophobe?

How is he being shunned?!? He has a column in the Independent and he was on the Late, Late Show!!! That's far more exposure than the average citizen!

ojewriej wrote: »

maybe about instead of branding him racist and ignoring him someone should answer his questions. Shouldn't be too hard if his ideas are so warped.

What questions? He doesn't ask any (rhetorical questions aside). Everything is a definitive statement, based on observations in the "world according to Myers":

time to take stand and say we don't want Muslim immigrants

Who's "we"? Speak for yourself, mate.

Comparable movements of Christians into Muslim societies are not permitted

Nonsense. Pakistan has a far larger number of Christians (2.57 million, or 1.6% of the population) than Ireland has Muslims (about 0.8% of the population).

I could go on, but I'm going off-topic. The point is that there is little point in debating anything with anyone whose arguments are devoid of facts, as is the case with Myers.

purple'n'gold

marcsignal wrote: »

I was shocked, but not surprised, if you understand ? at the percentage of people who voted to change the citizenship loophole in, was it 2004 ? wasn't it 89% or something like that ? I can't remember exactly ?

I honestly believe, it was almost as if 'some' people voted, to close the loophole, as a reactionary backlash, against the PC minefield we are living in these days.

I also think it just shows, that people may say one thing in public, or on a forum like this one, but put them in a private polling booth, and they will say what they really think, deep down.

That’s what referenda are for; using the secrecy of the ballot box so people can say what they feel deep down. If people feel strongly enough about something they will vote for or against it. The 79.17% for and 20.83% against reflected what the electorate wanted. As in all referenda and elections you can only go by what the people who voted wanted. To try and imagine what the people who didn’t vote wanted is just playing imagination politics, i.e. you can come up with what ever result suits you. Below is a link to the actual result.
http://electionsireland.org/results/referendum/refresult.cfm?ref=2004R

brianthebard

Just on the "whether we should take muslim immigrants or not" issue, Muslims are the third largest ethnic group in the country now, (after chinese and presumably Irish), and there are more muslims than travellers. They have been migrating to this country for a lot longer than poles or other europeans (there has been a mosque in Mayo since the 70s-I can't remember the town but there's a sizeable muslim community-can try and find out if needs be) and despite this we haven't had any major problems with muslims that I can see? Also, anyone can convert to islam, christian, jewish or whatever.

marcsignal

purplengold wrote: »

Below is a link to the actual result.
http://electionsireland.org/results/referendum/refresult.cfm?ref=2004R

Thanks for that link purple'n'gold, I didn't know where to look for one at time of posting. It sure makes interesting reading.

EamonnKeane

brianthebard wrote: »

Muslims are the third largest ethnic group in the country now, (after chinese and presumably Irish).

Islam is not a race, it's a religion. Plus there are more British than Chinese.

EamonnKeane

Overuse of Capital Letters and Line Spaces = ANNOYING

Recitation Of one's Own Opinion as though It Were Catechism = ANNOYING

marcsignal

Bumping = Annoying

Signatures longer than the Getysburg Address = Annoying

Posting without reading the whole thread = Annoying

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Overuse of Capital Letters

Recitation Of one's Own Opinion as though It Were Catechism

capital letters ?? Read your own sentence please :rolleyes:

Of, Own, Opinion, It, Were.... just in case you missed it yourself

The Kettle calling the Pot "Black Arse" = Not Racist

Should I continue ??

ojewriej

First of all, we are really repeating our discussion from Fingerprinting here, basically repeating the same arguments, so if you don't mind I'll just address Kevin Myers issue.

I don't think Kevin Myers is right about everything. I often disagree with him. And I admit that sometimes (more often than he should) he really gets his facts wrong. But i don't think he deserves to be ignored

djpbarry wrote: »

No, it is not irrelevant. Racism is inexcusable and should not be ignored or overlooked, as is the case here.

By quoting just one sentence you are missing the point of the whole article. What he is trying to say is that instead of dealing with the immigration issue as a whole, we focus on one symptom - racism. I completely agree with it.

djpbarry wrote: »

What "issue" would this be? The fact that he's an Islamophobe?

What questions? He doesn't ask any (rhetorical questions aside). Everything is a definitive statement, based on observations in the "world according to Myers":

I admit, he goes too far at times. But his observations are designed to make people think and ask questions. For example:

And terrifyingly, there is no large-scale Islamic rejection of the murderous projects of their co-religionists in Britain; no mass-rallies of Muslims denouncing Islamicism; no call from within Muslim society for Muslims to join the army or police; and no unconditional and all-embracing campaign to extirpate murderous fundamentalism from within British Muslim society. Even "liberal" Muslims blame British foreign policy for Islamic terrorism in Britain, while remaining silent about the unspeakable Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities in Iraq.

This is something I was thinking about myself, and I think more people should be.

djpbarry wrote: »

How is he being shunned?!? He has a column in the Independent and he was on the Late, Late Show!!! That's far more exposure than the average citizen!

I haven't seen this Late Late show, but from what i heard he wasn't exactly being treated fairly. Basically he was invited as a token bad guy and was treated like a redneck xenophob.

djpbarry wrote: »

Nonsense. Pakistan has a far larger number of Christians (2.57 million, or 1.6% of the population) than Ireland has Muslims (about 0.8% of the population).

I could go on, but I'm going off-topic. The point is that there is little point in debating anything with anyone whose arguments are devoid of facts, as is the case with Myers.

Ok, this figure is wrong. But i doesn't matter. The point here is that we go out of our way to accommodate Muslim immigrants, in the Muslim countries they don't really. I'm sure we all heard what happened in Sudan in last few days for instance.

djpbarry

ojewriej wrote: »

What he is trying to say is that instead of dealing with the immigration issue as a whole, we focus on one symptom - racism.

So, racism doesn't exist unless you bring together people of different races?

Racism is not a symptom of anything. Racism is a disgusting blight on any society and should be dealt with severely. Overlooking it is equally disgusting, in my opinion.

ojewriej wrote: »

But his observations are designed to make people think and ask questions.

No, his ill-informed "observations" are designed to instil xenophobia.

ojewriej wrote: »

no mass-rallies of Muslims denouncing Islamicism

Stupid statement. So, if a group does not organise a mass-rally denouncing something, then, by default, that means they support it?

ojewriej wrote: »

no call from within Muslim society for Muslims to join the army or police

Why the hell should they?!? People are entitled to pursue whatever career they want.

ojewriej wrote: »

I haven't seen this Late Late show, but from what i heard he wasn't exactly being treated fairly. Basically he was invited as a token bad guy and was treated like a redneck xenophob.

Probably because he is a xenophobe. Judge for yourself:
http://www.rte.ie/tv/latelate/20070928.html

ojewriej wrote: »

Ok, this figure is wrong. But i doesn't matter.

Of course it matters. How can you have a rational debate about anything if you're not prepared to deal in facts? You say, "at least Myers is raising the issue of immigration". I say, he is a sensationalist who researches virtually nothing (as far as I can tell) and should be writing for the Daily Mail (if even they will have him). He constantly calls for public debate on immigration; so, debate it Kevin.

ojewriej wrote: »

The point here is that we go out of our way to accommodate Muslim immigrants

How exactly?

ojewriej wrote: »

I'm sure we all heard what happened in Sudan in last few days for instance.

Right, so one incident in one particular country should be used to judge all other countries of the same religion? Well, that makes life easy for people like Myers, doesn't it? Saves them having to do all that research into facts and such.

You Suck!

Hehehe, some of the best friends I've made of other race's are the ones how openly don't give a shít about what you say. Nígger!?!.....fine! you honky ass white motherfúcker

Dunno about you, but for me, they're other people who are different then me. The difference is to be enjoyed and the person to be respected.

In fact I find the racism starts when you approach a person of another race and start worrying about what to say round them, instead of just treating them as another joe.

Well that, and there are the assholes of this world......who genuinely are racist....but they just happen to be insecure pieces of shít anyway who need their sense of superiority to cover up their failings in life....hence the lack of intelligent racists

Munya

the_syco wrote: »

Agreed. An Irish person telling a "Irish man, an English man, and a Scots man" joke would be different if a English man said it to get people to laugh at the Irish.

I don't agree. I don’t think its any worse for an English person to degrade Irish people than it is for Irish people to degrade Irish people. What gives an Irish person the right to mock Irish people? The fact they were born in closer proximity to one another than to others? That’s stupid.

Munya

marcsignal wrote: »

'issue' was probalby not the best choice of word here. But as an example, if your neighbour in an Apartment block was Muslim, I'd consider it just good manners, and having consideration for him/her by avoiding having loud, late night parties during Ramadam. In that case his race might be an issue, when plannng a party, but not necessarily a problem.
If you know what I mean ?? Ok not suggesting you live like a monk because of it, but rather to try ones best to extend him/her the respect you'd like him/her to extend you.

Ignoring the fact Islam isn’t a race, for I have no better word; I deem what you said as “racist”. You would be treating that person better than others solely because of his/her religion. I wouldn’t like to be kept awake by the noise of your party either but feel free to ignore me, I haven’t got a religious excuse to fall back on...

Munya

marcsignal wrote: »

I know what you mean FF, I've also found some of the people who are most Pro Immigration/Multiculturalism can be very choosey. For example i'm sure there are parts of the world where Female Circumsision is allowed and practiced culturally. But when a person with those cultural beliefs come to Ireland the Feminazis are up in arms ??

Ah isn’t modern Ireland great? Racism is wrong but sexism is cool.

marcsignal

Munya wrote: »

Ignoring the fact Islam isn’t a race, for I have no better word; I deem what you said as “racist”. You would be treating that person better than others solely because of his/her religion. I wouldn’t like to be kept awake by the noise of your party either but feel free to ignore me, I haven’t got a religious excuse to fall back on...

If I ignored, or showed a total lack of consideration for my islamic neighbour in this case, and told him to "Fu*k off back to where he came from",
if he didn't like it, I think one could consider that quite racist, or perhaps xenophobic.
Racism and xenophobia are two sides of the same coin anyway IMO.

Munya wrote: »

Ah isn’t modern Ireland great? Racism is wrong but sexism is cool.

I'll have to disagree with you there Munya. I don't discriminate at all, Radical Feminists AKA "feminazis" are just the same as ALL other radicals, that insist on shoving their views down everyones throat, Feckin Bonkers.

You Suck! wrote: »

Well that, and there are the assholes of this world......who genuinely are racist....but they just happen to be insecure pieces of shít anyway who need their sense of superiority to cover up their failings in life....hence the lack of intelligent racists

Dead right ! That Racist, Fascist, Tyrrant "Robert Mugabe" is one thick bastd, driving out all those white farmers, handing the holdings over to, possibly, corrupt people, with absolutely no experience, and inflicting the highest inflation rate in the world on his own people

Munya

marcsignal wrote: »

If I ignored, or showed a total lack of consideration for my islamic neighbour in this case, and told him to "Fu*k off back to where he came from",
if he didn't like it, I think one could consider that quite racist, or perhaps xenophobic.
Racism and xenophobia are two sides of the same coin anyway IMO.

It would only be racist if you said "Fu*k off back to where you came from" Otherwise its not racist. No one should have to walk on egg-shells because of someones "race".

marcsignal wrote: »

I'll have to disagree with you there Munya. I don't discriminate at all, Radical Feminists AKA "feminazis" are just the same as ALL other radicals, that insist on shoving their views down everyones throat, Feckin Bonkers.

Female Circumsision is a horrid assault on girls, no one is a radical, or nazi for believing that. I'd say the nazis would have been more inclined the other way.

marcsignal

Munya wrote: »

It would only be racist if you said "Fu*k off back to where you came from" Otherwise its not racist. No one should have to walk on egg-shells because of someones "race".

It's not about walking on egshells, it's about 'Mutual Respect' which beats 'Political Correctness' hands down imo, because it's about 'give & take'

Munya wrote: »

Female Circumsision is a horrid assault on girls

I totally agree with you, but if it's part of an immigrants culture, do we ask them to leave that part of their culture at the door ??

I thought Ireland was Multicultural ?? That's a part of the negative side of 'True' Multiculturalism, you see.
It's not just some trendy idea, about different coloured faces on Grafton Street. If we really want it, we should accept it, warts and all, otherwise we are supressing that persons culture, theoritecally. If we can pick and choose the bits we're ok with, we should be able to put restrictions on Head Scarves and Burkas too, without the PC brigade feaking out.

I'm personally easy about the concept, one way or the other, food for thought though....

djpbarry

Munya wrote: »

Female Circumsision is a horrid assault on girls, no one is a radical, or nazi for believing that. I'd say the nazis would have been more inclined the other way.

What has female circumcision got to do with anything?

marcsignal wrote: »

If we can pick and choose the bits we're ok with, we should be able to put restrictions on Head Scarves and Burkas too, without the PC brigade feaking out.

I don't really see what clothing has to do with female circumcision. People can wear whatever the hell they want; what difference does it make to anyone else?

marcsignal

djpbarry wrote: »

What has female circumcision got to do with anything?

That goes back to an earlier reference djp, see back a few posts.

djpbarry wrote: »

I don't really see what clothing has to do with female circumcision. People can wear whatever the hell they want; what difference does it make to anyone else?

this was just in reference to should we accept all cultural practices, like female circumsicision, or just the bits were ok with, like head scarves, as an example.

djpbarry

marcsignal wrote: »

should we accept all cultural practices, like female circumsicision, or just the bits were ok with, like head scarves, as an example.

I don't see anything wrong with that; at the end of the day, laws have to be abided by. My understanding is that FGM is an offence in Ireland under the Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997. In fact, FGM is illegal in many, if not most, of the countries in which it is practiced.