Training class

Neilw

Hi,

I booked a 4 week training class with a well known dog trainers.

I booked on the understanding that there was a 2:1 ratio of dogs to trainer. When I got there, there was between 8-10 dogs and their owners and only 2 trainers.
My dog is very excitable around other dogs and for the most part I could not partake in most of the training as I was told to just stand there and let the dog calm down.

As I said I booked on the understanding that there was a 2:1 ratio, this is stated on their website and I think I've been ripped off as I paid 165 euro for the classes.

Have I any comeback?
The dog has learned nothing from the past 2 classes, at most the trainers would have spent 5 mins per class with my dog :mad:

Thanks,
Neil.

EGAR

If they are in breach of contract then yes, you should be able to claim money back.

Padjo1981

EGAR wrote: »

If they are in breach of contract then yes, you should be able to claim money back.

Yea, if the product or service is not as described then you are entitled for a full refund

cr1272

I'm looking into booking training classes. Could you PM me the name of the place you went, so I can go in with my eyes open?

macshadow

cr1272 wrote: »

I'm looking into booking training classes. Could you PM me the name of the place you went, so I can go in with my eyes open?

I think dog training Ireland have a dog creche.
OOPS Replied to wrong thread

dollydishmop

€165 for four weeks?

Assuming that this is weekly classes (yes?), that's just over €40 a session!

With 8-10 dogs per session, that trainer's taking home €320-400 for a training session.

Me thinks someone is on to a good thing there, and its not necessarily the dog owner :rolleyes:

For that kind of money I'd want 1:1 !!!

You're more than welcome to pay me that to train your dog for you :eek:

Really need to look into this dog training lark if people are paying that kind of money for it

Our man in Havana

Moved to Consumer Issues.

cr1272

In fairness, training a dog is not just about 1 to 1 time with a trainer. Dogs also need socialisation with each other, and to get this in a controlled environment, where there are only a few other dogs, is rare in this country I would think.

But, getting back to the issue, has the original poster gone back to said trainers seeking a refund? Has he been successful?

Neilw

Just to clarify a couple of points, I was incorrect when I said there was a 2:1 ratio, it's actually 4:1 and this is stated on the website, mistake by me

I have been talking to the owner who has been more than helpful and very professional, they understand that my dog is excitable and have given me some advice and stated I won't just be forgotten after the classes are finished.

All in all I would say my concerns have been addressed and I have to say they offer a very professional and friendly service and I would highly recommend them.

On a side note, all the other dogs were getting on very well with the training so it's just my dog which has "issues" and they will do their best to help.

Thanks,
Neil.

BeauZak

€165 for four weeks?

Assuming that this is weekly classes (yes?), that's just over €40 a session!

With 8-10 dogs per session, that trainer's taking home €320-400 for a training session.

Me thinks someone is on to a good thing there, and its not necessarily the dog owner

21% of that is VAT, just incase you don't know what VAT is. It goes to the Government. The company DTI collects it on behalf of the government. DTI is vat registered and a limited company which means they pay tax on all profits, they collect VAT for revenue, they pay PRSI and PAYE.

12.5% goes on Corporation Tax. Again DTI pay their dues. Investing back into the system.

Then there is the Public Liability Insurance - DTI holds appropriate public liability insurance. That costs money too.

The rent for the premises. DTI runs their courses indoors, heated with safe flooring.

The staff: All DTI staff are trained, certified and qualified as per their website.

Heating, Lighting, accountancy fees ... and so on.

So I suggest you do the maths again. I presume you don't own or run your own company.

DTI is an all Irish company trying to employ Irish staff, create jobs and provide a much needed service to their clients.

To anyone else doing the same - I wish you all the best. As a business owner you will all know where I am coming from.

macshadow

cr1272 Do you have a connection with dog training Ireland?

cr1272

macshadow wrote: »

cr1272 Do you have a connection with dog training Ireland?

Nope.

Jodie Charlie

God if only dog training was that easy!!! Sit there and roll in the money like - as if! To do the a good course it costs €5000 - that is fee's alone not talking into account the amount of time you must travel over and back to the uk and pay for transport and accommidation many times during the year, and books all have to be bought from the UK and USA and your talking of hundred and hundreds of euros and then keeping yourself informed and attending many different courses and workshops that come up - but also the work is very hard and you must also gain experience so you must cut down your work in your own full time job - so how do you pay for your all your fee's - makes me laugh to see someone sit there and say oh how easy it all is......

I've attended classes with my dogs and I practice everynight with them also - just like the website says too - i'm not expecting magic i'm expecting to learn and to listen to what i have to so then I am equipted with the skills for the future to manage my dogs and any behaviours I don't want. I practice, practice, practice so the next week the dog can do it.

Edited in case i'm asked: the connection I have to DTI is that I attended all their classes and found every single one enjoyable and a brilliant learning experience and my dogs loved them too and the difference in them now with a bit of work is amazing and because I enjoyed my self so much there I have started to study this myself!

macshadow

No one is saying they charge too much or anything negative about DTI.
The OP has stated he had gotten it wrong about class sizes.
It could cost up to $50,000 in the states to become a master trainer.

Jodie Charlie

I appreicate that - but I was referring to the below comment that i found condesending and without a clue to what actually goes into running a business or becoming/working as a dog trainer

dollydishmop wrote: »

€165 for four weeks?

Assuming that this is weekly classes (yes?), that's just over €40 a session!

With 8-10 dogs per session, that trainer's taking home €320-400 for a training session.

Me thinks someone is on to a good thing there, and its not necessarily the dog owner :rolleyes:

For that kind of money I'd want 1:1 !!!

You're more than welcome to pay me that to train your dog for you :eek:

Really need to look into this dog training lark if people are paying that kind of money for it

thefinalstage

Why the hell would people pay 5000 euro to get a dog trained? Do they want it to jump through fire? All it takes is a bit of time and any dog will love and obey you.

Jodie Charlie

thelastangryman wrote: »

Why the hell would people pay 5000 euro to get a dog trained? Do they want it to jump through fire? All it takes is a bit of time and any dog will love and obey you.

If you have a little read of my post you will see I was talking about to become a qualified dog trainer - i'm sorry but all the love in the world didn't help my dog overcome her aggression towards new dogs - it took an understanding of how dogs learn, de-sensitisation and counter-conditioning to do that and a LOT of help from DTI!

thefinalstage

Jodie Charlie wrote: »

If you have a little read of my post you will see I was talking about to become a qualified dog trainer - i'm sorry but all the love in the world didn't help my dog overcome her aggression towards new dogs - it took an understanding of how dogs learn, de-sensitisation and counter-conditioning to do that and a LOT of help from DTI!

Em...yeah. Pack animals.

Jodie Charlie

Maybe you could explain what you mean by 'pack animals'? You know interestingly dogs don't form packs - i train my dogs based on proven scientific research on how dogs learn such as conditioning, positive reinforcement etc if you have any links to scientific studies on pack theories in dogs I’d be interested to read them for research purposes as yet I have not found any?

thefinalstage

Jodie Charlie wrote: »

Maybe you could explain what you mean by 'pack animals'? You know interestingly dogs don't form packs - i train my dogs based on proven scientific research on how dogs learn such as conditioning, positive reinforcement etc if you have any links to scientific studies on pack theories in dogs I’d be interested to read them for research purposes as yet I have not found any?

You do know that dogs are descended from the wolf right?

Anyway, I digress. A little patience can have nearly anyone train any dog. I appreciate that you may need to give the illusion that its a hard thing to do in order to protect your job but its not. Oh well, you always have lazy people.

Jodie Charlie

thelastangryman wrote: »

I appreciate that you may need to give the illusion that its a hard thing to do in order to protect your job but its not. Oh well, you always have lazy people.

Just has we have changes so much so have dogs brains, genetics & behaviours - it would better to study domestic dogs rather than wild/captive wolves in order to understand how domestic dogs learn and why they do things - but thats just my personal opinion - but as I said I'd glady read some back up on it if you have any?

I don't offer any illussion I can't change science and law of effect nor do I have any job to protect as I am not a qualified dog trainer - I am giving my exerperience based on retraining my own dog who suffered with fear aggression and what i had to do to help her overcome this - desenstising her to new dogs, counter conditioning and learning how to read her body language for when she was starting to get stressed so I can move her away from the situation before it escalated

dollydishmop

Jodie Charlie wrote: »

I appreicate that - but I was referring to the below comment that i found condesending and without a clue to what actually goes into running a business or becoming/working as a dog trainer

You found my comment condescending?

And you make a judgement about me and what I know or don't know about training dogs?

Actually I compete my dogs in IKC Obedience...I train them myself, have trained dogs for years, have trained people and their dogs for years.
I have competition results and obedient well-mannered dogs to show for it.
What level do your dogs work at, out of curiosity?
Will I see you at an obedience competition any time soon?

Oh...and I also compete a 'formerly dog-aggressive' dog...who now works happily off lead in and around other dogs....something which would have been positivlely dangerous when I first got her. I managed to re-train her using common sense, some amateur dog psychology and with a little help from my peers. I certainly didn't fork out €5k for this???

I also recognise that a business in Ireland has to cover its bills...but I feel its pricing also has to stay competitive...

Jodie Charlie

dollydishmop wrote: »

You found my comment condescending?

And you make a judgement about me and what I know or don't know about training dogs?

Actually I compete my dogs in IKC Obedience...I train them myself, have trained dogs for years, have trained people and their dogs for years.
I have competition results and obedient well-mannered dogs to show for it.
What level do your dogs work at, out of curiosity?
Will I see you at an obedience competition any time soon?

Oh...and I also compete a 'formerly dog-aggressive' dog...who now works happily off lead in and around other dogs....something which would have been positivlely dangerous when I first got her. I managed to re-train her using common sense, some amateur dog psychology and with a little help from my peers. I certainly didn't fork out €5k for this???

I also recognise that a business in Ireland has to cover its bills...but I feel its pricing also has to stay competitive...

Thats great new delighted your dog over came her aggression issue also. I don't train for competitions - I prefer to put my spare energy into rescue work and retraining foster dogs so they too can go on and get great homes :-)

dollydishmop

Jodie Charlie wrote: »

Thats great new delighted your dog over came her aggression issue also. I don't train for competitions - I prefer to put my spare energy into rescue work and retraining foster dogs so they too can go on and get great homes :-)

Very pleased to hear it!

My two obedience dogs are both rescues, one was a stray I took in, and the other I 'took' from some local travellers after the disgusting state I found her in....I currently have two other fosters from my local SPCA hogging sofa space, both with improved manners and now looking for their forever homes I have been fostering pretty much full-time for just over 6 years now.

Wokie

OP fair play to you for coming back and letting us know how you got on with the dog trainers.

As for some of the rest of the comments, as BeauZak so succinctly puts it, it is expensive running a business here in Ireland and especially one that provides the quality of service that DTI does. I've done some courses with DTI and have to say they are extremely well run, comfortable for both dog and owner and in my humble opinion well worth every penny. The trainers are well qualified and very importantly insured. I doubt this is something that most so-called dog trainers in this country are.

For what it's worth, I had been elsewhere to do some training with one of my dogs and while it was cheaper, I certainly do not consider being told to put a choke chain on my dog and march around in circles with him as training. :eek: