Recessed lights - LED bulbs?

yjmlighting

itsmine wrote: »

Our new holiday home build (currently undergoing second fix plumbing and electrical) has 16 downlighters in the kitchen/dining room. In an effort to curb energy usage somewhat, the electrician has suggested that we put LED bulbs into the downlighters instead of standard downlighter bulbs. Makes sense, as they only use a fraction of the energy to run than the standard bulbs.
Trouble is, the LED bulbs are €10 each.
Also, I haven't seen them in operation, so I don't know what kind of light they put out.
Anyone got any experience of them/advice?
Cheers..

yes the only trouble is price

Stoner

yjmlighting, you seem to know your LED lights, but I've removed the links to your site as it's clearly advertising and not allowed by the owners of boards.ie

You have an option to post on the electrical suppliers thread to get your site listed, once listed posters can be directed towards it, but your user name and company url are too simialr and have been identified as spam.

What you can't to is keep pushing your product directly on the site, however that does not mean that you are not welcome or that you can't attract attention to your products or advise posters.

Thank you for posting.

Paschcom

When fitting downlighters in an airtight house, has anyone any experience of how you go about ensuring the airtight membrane is maintained when you are poking lots of holes in the ceiling?
Someone suggested building a wooden box around the recessed fitting, effectively squaring off between the joists around the light, and then taping up the airtight membrane. This way the airtightness is maintained and light is kept away from the insulation material. However, this seems like a lot of work.
Is there an easier way? - You would expect there to be some type of boxing/enclosure that could go around the light and membrane could be taped to it? I think someone mentioned a 'flowerpot' earlier in this thread - what does that entail (and I don't mean going down to local garden centre!!)

Stoner

there are fire proof cappings you can buy in a wholesalers for about 10-15 euro each, some guys call them LV top hats, they keep the insulation off the fitting, as will the flower pot (not a plastic one)

Carlow52

Paschcom wrote: »

When fitting downlighters in an airtight house, has anyone any experience of how you go about ensuring the airtight membrane is maintained when you are poking lots of holes in the ceiling?
Someone suggested building a wooden box around the recessed fitting, effectively squaring off between the joists around the light, and then taping up the airtight membrane. This way the airtightness is maintained and light is kept away from the insulation material. However, this seems like a lot of work.
Is there an easier way? - You would expect there to be some type of boxing/enclosure that could go around the light and membrane could be taped to it? I think someone mentioned a 'flowerpot' earlier in this thread - what does that entail (and I don't mean going down to local garden centre!!)

The best advice these days is not to do any form of recessed lighting.

In passing, if you are switching from GU10s to LED's, AFAIK all lights on the same circuit need to be done at the same time, I did half and half and the leds lasted 2 "lightings":(

davelerave

Carlow52 wrote: »

The best advice these days is not to do any form of recessed lighting.

In passing, if you are switching from GU10s to LED's, AFAIK all lights on the same circuit need to be done at the same time, I did half and half and the leds lasted 2 "lightings":(

applies to manetic and electronic ballasts anyhow(at switch-off) .the spike from magnetic can damage electronic.i would guess the prob with halogen and led occurs at switch-on

yjmlighting

voltage from 90~265 is ok？ MR16 is low voltage 24 DC

davelerave

yjmlighting wrote: »

voltage from 90~265 is ok？ MR16 is low voltage 24 DC

explain please

yjmlighting

davelerave wrote: »

explain please

For GU10 and E27 socket LED bulbs, voltage range could be 90~265 v, this designed for EU countries, bu MR16 is low voltage application, Sorry, 12V DC usually

Paschcom

Carlow52 wrote: »

The best advice these days is not to do any form of recessed lighting.

If only this was an option, it would make my life a lot easier! But her indoors must be obeyed.

Separately, I previously had 50w GU10's and while they worked okay for the first few years, they eventually blew all my dimmer switches, and it got to the stage that when a bulb would blow which became more frequent over the years, they also tripped the trip switch. Is this a common problem?

Stoner

GU10 50W are the worst lamp out there horrible, cheap, hot, inefficient and dangerous IMO. They are only installed because there is a cost saving due to not requiring a traffo IMHO. I can't think of a reason to have them TBH, the only good thing about them is that the GU10 lamp holder can take a CFL or LED lamp is a straight exchange.

2011

GU10 50W are the worst lamp out there horrible, cheap, hot, inefficient and dangerous IMO

+ 1

They also blow all the time and give off a very (horrible) yellow light.

the only good thing about them is that the GU10 lamp holder can take a CFL or LED lamp is a straight exchange.

+ 1
I am still not too keen on the LEDs, but some of the Megaman CFLs are impressive. This one is only 7 watts. It produces good quality light, but takes about 3 minutes to get to full brightness.

davelerave

they actually make a 14watt gu10,should be a great light .not available locally anyhow
http://www.alertelectrical.com/Lamps-And-Tubes/Energy-Saving-Light-Bulbs/Reflector-Low-Energy-Light-Bulbs/Megaman-14w-GU10-Reflector-70w-Equiv-141627.asp

mikemike

Hi ,

I've studied most of the posts , but am still unsure re. the following ...

I have a bungalow , with some 50w 230v downlights , loft insulation has been pushed back from either side of lights ... this isn''t very energy clever and they're giving off massive heat which I'm paying for .

I want to get more loft insulation , as there's a grant going ,, and I also want to make the lights more energy efficient .. the wife still wants the downlights , though personally i wish to f*ck I'd never put them up ... but they're there now so I'm stuck with them .

I have some samples of LED downlights coming ,,, if they give off enough light , who knows they may do ? but if they DO give off enough light , and I decide to use them in all the downlights , do I still have to use a 'flower pot' system to cover them or simply a much more compact cover on which the insulation is then put ?? I'm sick of losing heat through the ceiling ..

The fact that LED's don't give off much heat should surely mean I don't have to go to major extremes to cover them ?? or does it ?

thanks .

Carlow52

mikemike wrote: »

Hi ,

I've studied most of the posts , but am still unsure re. the following ...

I have a bungalow , with some 50w 230v downlights , loft insulation has been pushed back from either side of lights ... this isn''t very energy clever and they're giving off massive heat which I'm paying for .

I want to get more loft insulation , as there's a grant going ,, and I also want to make the lights more energy efficient .. the wife still wants the downlights , though personally i wish to f*ck I'd never put them up ... but they're there now so I'm stuck with them .

I have some samples of LED downlights coming ,,, if they give off enough light , who knows they may do ? but if they DO give off enough light , and I decide to use them in all the downlights , do I still have to use a 'flower pot' system to cover them or simply a much more compact cover on which the insulation is then put ?? I'm sick of losing heat through the ceiling ..

The fact that LED's don't give off much heat should surely mean I don't have to go to major extremes to cover them ?? or does it ?

thanks .

The LEDs wont match the incandescent d/lighters so think about using the LEDs for background/basic light and then other fittings for where you need it to be bright. You don't need daylight quality light everywhere.

As well as the heat loss, airtightness is a big problem with the eyeball downlight fittings so think about that when fitting the 'flowerpots'

The one problem with downsizing the 'flower pots' is that you cant ever go back to the originals.

An important point is that you cant mix LEDs and candies on the same circuit, the LEDs get fried, so dont test by mixing them

M cebee

I use the fire-rated a fair bit as they maintain the fire-barrier but they're not air-tight by any means(they have an intumescent seal)

An enclosed led wouldn't be a fire hazard afaik but if the temp is raised by the enclosure ,it may affect the led life as they're sensitive to temperature.

i wonder how much of a problem combining leds and halogens is?it doesnt seem to be mentioned in the literature much

Carlow52

M cebee wrote: »

i wonder how much of a problem combining leds and halogens is?it doesnt seem to be mentioned in the literature much

I bought 2 to replace 2 of 4 GU 10 halos and the LEDs lasted about a week, consensus was that the power surge to the GU10s fried the LED's

Some one here had the same issue
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055243585

mikemike

Thanks for all the info..

I forgot to mention that I have the lights on dimmers ... I know the LED's can't be dimmed ,, and that's fine ,, but will using the dimmer on them damge them / cause them to blow etc.??

also , re. covering the lights in the loft with flower pots ,, one guy recently told me you can just put the pot over the light and then cover the pot with loft insulation etc.... is this right ?

I assumed the pot would have to have holes in the bottom of it so when used for the lights , the heat from the bulbs could escape up into the loft with insulation only around the pot , not on top of it ...

if you retain all the heat inside the pot with no ventilation/escape surely it becomes an oven , won't the bulbs then overheat and perhaps blow ??
am I wrong ??

also , also , if you swapped all the downlights for led's , could you then cover them over with pots with/without holes and then place insulation on top of the pots because of the low heat emmitted ?? or again would it become an oven ?

It's becoming a bit of an obsession , and I just want to do the job right without burning down the house or blowing bulbs every five minutes ..

thanks for your patience .

Carlow52

If the 'flower pot' is big enough and if the material in the 'flower pot' is capable of absorbing heat then ventilation will not be required, so if y have say 200 mm clear from back of light and it is made of metal or something similar then u will not need ventilation. and insulate around it

Dimmers are a con because unless u buy the expensive ones the power not being used in the light is consumed in the dimmer switch which gets hot:)

As I said before, I would not use a smaller 'flower pot' for an LED as u may decide to revert

mikemike

thanks for that ,,,
the lights are open at the back , i.e. not covered with anything ,, does this change anything re. 200mm etc.?

sorry to keep repeating , but I CAN cover the 'pot' with insulation if the distance is enough can I ?

and are the lights in this link a lot safer ?

thanks .

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-X-GU10-FIRE-RATED-TILT-DOWNLIGHT-BRASS_W0QQitemZ320454737865QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_HomeGarden_Lighting_Lamps_Lighting_SM?hash=item4a9c973fc9

recedite

Carlow52 wrote: »

If the 'flower pot' is big enough and if the material in the 'flower pot' is capable of absorbing heat then ventilation will not be required, so if y have say 200 mm clear from back of light and it is made of metal or something similar then u will not need ventilation. and insulate around it

This does not really make sense because anything that absorbs heat has to also release it somewhere, otherwise in theory it would gradually get red hot and melt. The original idea of making a hole in the insulation was to maintain a cooling flow of air.

recedite

mikemike wrote: »

Thanks for all the info..


if you retain all the heat inside the pot with no ventilation/escape surely it becomes an oven , won't the bulbs then overheat and perhaps blow ??
am I wrong ??

also , also , if you swapped all the downlights for led's , could you then cover them over with pots with/without holes and then place insulation on top of the pots because of the low heat emmitted ?? or again would it become an oven ?

.

Sounds right to me, you wouldn't even need the pots for LEDs, but you might be disappointed with the light.

recedite

Carlow52 wrote: »

The best advice these days is not to do any form of recessed lighting.

In passing, if you are switching from GU10s to LED's, AFAIK all lights on the same circuit need to be done at the same time, I did half and half and the leds lasted 2 "lightings":(

yjmlighting wrote: »

voltage from 90~265 is ok？ MR16 is low voltage 24 DC

Can we clarify here that the mains voltage GU10s damaged the LEDs on the same switchline. I think yjmlighting is asking are you sure the damage was not caused by transformers ie 12v MR16 fittings.
Also bear in mind there's probably only 2 lighting circuits in your house, so it's only the ones on the same switch you mean?

paddy147

I just had 16 down lighters installed in my living area.

Im confused by all the talk of this bulb and that bulbs.

Can some tell me what bulbs can be used with a dimmer switch And what are the most effiecent bulbs to use please?

Thanks.:)

M cebee

led is most efficient

energy saver halogen(35watt) and dimmer are pretty good for a sitting room


or else maybe led and regular switch

afaik they can all be dimmed if you get suitable lights,dimmers

paddy147

M cebee wrote: »

led is most efficient

energy saver halogen(35watt) and dimmer are pretty good for a sitting room


or else maybe led and regular switch

afaik they can all be dimmed if you get suitable lights,dimmers

Thanks for that.

recedite

variolighting wrote: »

Hi everyone.

If any of you need more info on LED Lighting i would be happy to answer your questions.

...

Can your LEDs be damaged by halogens on the same circuit?

Can your LEDs safely be covered over with fibreglass attic insulation?

M cebee

i would say it's not a fire-safety issue but the raised temp. will prob affect bulb life

would be interested to know about the halogen -led issue,i know there was problems with magnetic transformers and back-emf

recedite

variolighting wrote: »

Re using halogen and LED units on the same circuit.. Interesting. Why may i ask would you do that.?
.

A homeowner with a large number of downlighters might want to replace a few at at a time, due to the time and cost involved. But it was claimed earlier in this thread that the halogens would cause the LEDs to fail.

paddy147

variolighting wrote: »

Re using halogen and LED units on the same circuit.. Interesting. Why may i ask would you do that.? it defeats the purpose.

Re back emf on wire wounds it could be a problem with cheap power supplies.

The power supplies ( Constant Current LED Power supplies ) as opposed to constant voltage units all have inrush current supression , thermal overload and short circuit protection. So it should not be an issue if the LEDs are required to be run inline with halogen units.

Cheers,

Liam Ellis.

Vario lighting navan.

Very interested in knowing more about your LED bulbs and prices.

Can you PM me your best price for say 16 of these,(I can collect in person) and can they deffinately be used with a dimmer switch?

Also,what sort of realistic lifespan do your LED bulbs have in an average household?

Thanks.:)