Team: Dead Man's Hand

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

No. I am taking a leaf from the special forces handbook on this one. Go with what works. The only thing about the vests that you have to adhere to is that you can carry all of your gear and it does clash out right with the other members and the uniform.

The Marksman role is slightly different however in that I have a feeling you might need to carry a second rifle if you use a bolt action long-arm, mainly because you would need to be able to add to the firepower during an ambush strike.

In your case Dex this isnt a big issue since you have full auto-capability in the SPR. What concerns me is the difference in the magazines, it might be prudent for you to carry a couple of stanags for the other guys in your unit as per the shingle system.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

The SPR is semi only but quite quick at that. I would generally fire in semi unless there was a problem, regardless of the rifle used. The idea of the SPR was that you can quickly add rounds downrange should you need to. I do however have an MP7 tucked just incase an assault is in play.

I already have two mid cap STANAGs purchased and waiting for use as per the shingle.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

The SPR is semi only but quite quick at that. I would generally fire in semi unless there was a problem, regardless of the rifle used. The idea of the SPR was that you can quickly add rounds downrange should you need to. I do however have an MP7 tucked just incase an assault is in play.

I already have two mid cap STANAGs purchased and waiting for use as per the shingle.

Sweet.

16airassualt

French Centre Europe

can i ask what a STANAG is?

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

16airassualt wrote: »

can i ask what a STANAG is?

The higher capcity Armalyte style magazine.

The M16 mag with the little bend in it.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

STANAG compatible guns taken from Wikipedia. Most of these are also in airsoft, if they use them in RS, they use them in airsoft too.

Armalite AR-18/SAR-80/Howa Type 89
Beretta AR70/90
Beretta Rx4 Storm
Bernardelli VB-SR
Bushmaster M17-S
CETME Mod L/LC Carbine
Colt M16/Diemaco C7
Colt M4/Diemaco C8
Daewoo K2/Daewoo K1
Daewoo K3
FAMAS G2
FN F2000
FN FNC/Ak5/Pindad SS-1
FN Minimi/M249 SAW
FN SCAR-L
Heckler & Koch HK 23
Heckler & Koch HK416
Heckler & Koch G41
IMBEL MD2
IMI Tavor TAR-21
Kel-Tec SU-16
Kel-Tec PLR-16
Khaybar KH2002
LAPA FA-03
Magpul Masada
Norinco CQ
Norinco QBZ-97
Remington Model 7615P "Police Patrol Rifle"
Robinson Armaments M-96 "Expeditionary Rifle"
Robinson Armaments XCR
SA80 (L85)
SAR-21 (export models)[2]
SIG 556
T2 MK5 rifle
Type 65
Type 86
Type 91
XM29 OICW

The G36 and the Steyr can be converted to recieve STANAG mags also.

G36 type mag on left, STANAG on right.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

DMH will have two distinct divisions when deployed, aside from the Comand & Control group.

Division 1: Providing rapid friendly reinforcement for the Allied forces. Any group that finds itself pinned, over whelmed or believes itself in danger of losing ground to the enemy should be able to put a call in for support from DMH. Division 1 will then proceed to fill the gaps in the Allied lines and where necessary provide "mop-up" functions by huntinig down and eliminating enemy combatants in our control zones.

Requirements: Good battlefield discipline, adaptability, heavy firepower.


Division 2: Long Range Recon Patrol group. By moving quickly and and covertly as possible this divisions purpose is to place itself in the retreating line or supply line of the enemy. Once in position they will provide for surveilance of the enemies movements, their logisitics and where possible relay the enemies communications to the HQ or relevant units. This division will also conduct disruption operations against the enemy ranging from ambushes to false intel to command structure elimination when are where required.

Requirements: Mobility, stealth, observational skills.


*this is subject to change in the light of practicality etc.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

This is an interesting twist, and makes good disciplined radio comms an even more important factor now.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

This is an interesting twist, and makes good disciplined radio comms an even more important factor now.

I thought so.

The dual system means that depending on fitness and combat preference we can give everyone a place (so long as they are willing to make the effort) while still maintaining the special forces, job specific nature of the initial concept.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

It will also convert the team to a more reactionary/preventitive role. Many MilSim teams at tournaments, even very good and experienced ones, would find the ability to call on an insertion/extraction team (Div 1) exceptionally useful. Particularly for specific objectives such as a hostage rescue.

Also, a large push by any team, when co-ordinated with a scout/sniper team/sapper team (Div 2) would make it a lot easier to route a retreating enemy force in the direction command wanted. Which, in itself, is an exceptionally powerful battlefield ability.
Forcing a retreat is one thing, forcing a retreat into a controlled area or an ambush point is a huge advantage.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Further to the radio thing, I'll be working out a set of coms codes soon.

I figure three books will make sense, stop our coms getting counter surveiled.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

It will also convert the team to a more reactionary/preventitive role. Many MilSim teams at tournaments, even very good and experienced ones, would find the ability to call on an insertion/extraction team (Div 1) exceptionally useful. Particularly for specific objectives such as a hostage rescue.

Also, a large push by any team, when co-ordinated with a scout/sniper team/sapper team (Div 2) would make it a lot easier to route a retreating enemy force in the direction command wanted. Which, in itself, is an exceptionally powerful battlefield ability.
Forcing a retreat is one thing, forcing a retreat into a controlled area or an ambush point is a huge advantage.

Exactly the strategy I was going for.

Everyone thinks that SpecFor are just these uber soldiers sent to wipe out entire armies single handedly. The truth is that they avoid combat as much as they can to make it that much easier for the main force to do the job.

Thats what DMH will be training for.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

I like it, it instantly gives the team a useable role in a larger environment. Most airsoft teams, even MilSim teams, wouldn't specifically train for it. It's a good plan, I like it, but you know my feelings on the whole thing.

I would make one suggestion. Div 2 should have a demo crew designated. A couple of people to carry and plant claymores and other disruptive devices. Should the team get considerably advanced of the spearhead, behind enemy lines or even if they were on a snatch and grab mission they could prove very useful. They would also create the illusion of a much larger force should the team be used to route enemy forces.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

I like it, it instantly gives the team a useable role in a larger environment. Most airsoft teams, even MilSim teams, wouldn't specifically train for it. It's a good plan, I like it, but you know my feelings on the whole thing.

I would make one suggestion. Div 2 should have a demo crew designated. A couple of people to carry and plant claymores and other disruptive devices. Should the team get considerably advanced of the spearhead, behind enemy lines or even if they were on a snatch and grab mission they could prove very useful. They would also create the illusion of a much larger force should the team be used to route enemy forces.

My thinking exactly.

Still need intel on the radios.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

Meant to mention it. The Motorola XTX446 is the one I'm currently using. The XTN446 is the model up. After owning both (and losing the XTN), I can see there's not a huge difference. Nothing notable for airsofting anyway. As such I'd recommend getting the XTX446. It's half the price of an XTN, it still has the full 8 channel with 36 subchannels but it has 3 encryption bands too. Very useful tool I'd imagine.
And the cherry on the cake is that Maplin have discontinued them, they've dropped the price to 80 euro while stocks last. And for that money you can't beat them. A mediocre pair of basic ones would cost that.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Cool. How about long distance?

And what about throat mic's and head sets?

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

Standard Motorola pattern 2-Pin connection. Iasus do a throat mic for them and it works a dream (had one with me on Saturday but apparently radios weren't being used).
Headset wise, Motorola being one of the bigger brands, there's no shortage of compatibles, from bog standard ear pieces to cavalry sets.

Distance on them is about 2 miles (effective).


If you want seriously long distance, it is feasible to get trancievers or even man-pack radios and designate a radio man. I can look into this if you want and see if there's anything at a reasonable price that can provide enough power without falling outside of radio power and frequency laws. I know the 80MHz band is a free band but I'm not sure what the maximum power allowed on this is.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

Standard Motorola pattern 2-Pin connection. Iasus do a throat mic for them and it works a dream (had one with me on Saturday but apparently radios weren't being used).
Headset wise, Motorola being one of the bigger brands, there's no shortage of compatibles, from bog standard ear pieces to cavalry sets.

Distance on them is about 2 miles (effective).


If you want seriously long distance, it is feasible to get trancievers or even man-pack radios and designate a radio man. I can look into this if you want and see if there's anything at a reasonable price that can provide enough power without falling outside of radio power and frequency laws. I know the 80MHz band is a free band but I'm not sure what the maximum power allowed on this is.

The long distance is going to be important for some of the bigger places like Berget. What kind of power and weight would these have?

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

Power is usually adjustable up to 4 or 5W. Gives you a range in average terrain of about 5 miles. They're bloody heavy though. Depending on what one you get, it'll most likely be an old style one like a PRC 77 left over from Desert Storm. They weigh 9 or 10kg plus ancilliaries.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

Power is usually adjustable up to 4 or 5W. Gives you a range in average terrain of about 5 miles. They're bloody heavy though. Depending on what one you get, it'll most likely be an old style one like a PRC 77 left over from Desert Storm. They weigh 9 or 10kg plus ancilliaries.

thats very heavy to be lugging around. But, someone has to do it

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

The PRC was nicknamed the "Pr*ck" for two reasons. One was weight, the other was battery life. A pair of them would last a weekend alright for skirmishing at a tourney but in the field they were a pain because they'd need to keep dozens of them charged and ready.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

The PRC was nicknamed the "Pr*ck" for two reasons. One was weight, the other was battery life. A pair of them would last a weekend alright for skirmishing at a tourney but in the field they were a pain because they'd need to keep dozens of them charged and ready.

We'll give it to one of the younger, fitter lads on the recon team. We need something that gives us better range so there isnt anyone we cant contact.

this has a built in safety measure because if the team have an injury and are a long way off th beaten path they can still radio for help.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

There are 2 and 3W transcievers available too. They can tune into the 80Mhz band which is free and usually carries farther than the 446MHz band too. Those guys aren't much bigger than a scanner radio. Don't know about range though. I'd assume one of those and a much larger aerial is an option.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

There are 2 and 3W transcievers available too. They can tune into the 80Mhz band which is free and usually carries farther than the 446MHz band too. Those guys aren't much bigger than a scanner radio. Don't know about range though. I'd assume one of those and a much larger aerial is an option.

Like one of the big bendy aerials you see the lads carrying? Interesting.

It would certainly cut down the weight factor, which will be important if its going to be a 2 mile tab or something.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

Yeah, 10 kilos plus another 5 of your own kit? Not many are gonna volunteer for that job. The tranciever option is probably the way forward. Assuming there's one available with a decent range.

The other thing I thought about was maybe using a CB radio from a truck? 12 battery, the radio and a decent aerial would make a good portable comms platform if the other two options don't work out. It wouldn't be as light as the tranciever but it would be a lot lighter than the PRC. Range wise I'm not certain as different models have different power ranges

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

Yeah, 10 kilos plus another 5 of your own kit? Not many are gonna volunteer for that job. The tranciever option is probably the way forward. Assuming there's one available with a decent range.

The other thing I thought about was maybe using a CB radio from a truck? 12 battery, the radio and a decent aerial would make a good portable comms platform if the other two options don't work out. It wouldn't be as light as the tranciever but it would be a lot lighter than the PRC. Range wise I'm not certain as different models have different power ranges

Well, as far as it goes. It neednt be proper milspec. It just has to do the job, which in terms of SpecFor is exactly what they do.

It has to be reliable. It has to be durable. It has to do the job.

If we can get a small portable to cover the range thats great, if not, whats the next on the list?

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

Thats pretty much it without breaking radio comms laws and using high power gear. Everything else I have in my arsenal is short range gear. The only other things are cellphones or sat-phones. Most long range comms in the military (8+ miles) are sat comms anyway.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

NakedDex wrote: »

Thats pretty much it without breaking radio comms laws and using high power gear. Everything else I have in my arsenal is short range gear. The only other things are cellphones or sat-phones. Most long range comms in the military (8+ miles) are sat comms anyway.

I dont see us needing 8 miles ... and I'm not paying for Sat phones only to be put on to some call waiting service in the middle east ala Transformers.

So short range radios for team mates, their captain can patch back to the HQ and his sergent will have the codes to take over if the captain gets slotted. Sound ok?

One man carrying the long range?

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

Depending on structure of the division system in relation to CnC, I doubt every man would need a radio. Every second to third would be enough. The ideal would be everyone having one but economics say this might not be viable. 80 bucks for an XTX might not be much for such a quality radio, but some people might be put off by the idea of buying a radio that could buy them a half decent sidearm.

The ideal would be every man has a short range, preferably the xtx due to it's encryption capabilities. Each divisions 1ic gets a radio man with a long range who then attaches to the 2ic should the captain bite it. If the radio man bites it, 2ic takes the radio

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

The economics side is a bug bear all right but where there is a devious bugger there is usually a way to scrounge up the kit.

For the guys out in the wilderness with no back up everyman having a radio is vital since they might be walking a spread pattern of ten metres between each man and if they want to be quite they can't be shouting to each other.

This of course assumes inept members likely to start chatting rather than playing the game. Which I hope to hell we dont wind up with.

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

I would assume, after even a little training, people would respect noise discipline. I for one would not like to be on a lightly armed forward scout only to have some numpty 20 yards from me talking about the weekends rugby match while we're behind an enemy line. Or someones mobile went off.

So radios for all then. There's logic in that

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Right Lads,

Time to start taking names (the kicking of arse will come later).

Dead Mans Hand will have the following structure (due to the number of reservists etc).

There will be a core unit (Red Troop) made up of the most regular players, a reserves group (Blue Troop) made up of players less available for play and training and of JTOF (Joint Tactical Operational Forces) which will consist of whole established teams (The Hawks for example) who work directly with DMH in training and deployment.

Red Troop is divided into two squads. Alpha and Bravo.

Red Troop - Alpha Squad
Direct action squad. Fulfilling flying column support to other teams/units. Directly attacking the enemy in open conflict using heavy firepower and rapid deployment.

Red Troop - Bravo Squad (limited numbers based on skill and availability)
Covert action squad. Deep penetration recon and communications. Harrying the enemy with hit & run and ambush tactics.

Blue Troop is divided in the same way (Charlie and Delta respectively).

The minimum DMH loadout is as follows (not applicable to JTOF)

1 Danish M84 BDU.
1 Motorola Compatible PMR with motorola compatible throat mic or head set.
1 Stanag compatible main AEG.

Preferred loadout as above with;

OD Molle Vest with pouches
Brit Sheemagh
Sidearm (personal choice) with mags
8x100round Stanag Mid-Caps (may change to 50round Stanags at later point)
M-series Aeg's preferred.
P90 with 5x50round mags.

Can those of you who can meet the required attendance standard (2 out of every four weeks from end of April onwards) please put in your request to join Red Troop.

Those who cannot meet this requirement or fear they will be erratic or are heavily responsible to another team please put in your request to join Blue Troop.

JTOF team requests please contact me by PM.

Squads will be assigned based on skill and suitability displayed during the 2-3 month training in phase and ranks and Rupert status will be assigned in a similar manner.

For example: You might be a strapping six footer armed with a MK2 M249 when you skirmish casually but you might be better suited in terms of skills and natural talent to long distance recon and be a cracking shot with a VSR. Can you guess where you'll be assigned?

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

I should also say that specific roles need to be filled.

Command Officer (Rupert)
Marksman/Sniper (a few of these).
Signals operators.
Radio operators.

The Master

British Soldier 95 DPM

Requesting to join Blue Troop,

OD Molle Vest with pouches - check
Brit Sheemagh - check
Sidearm (personal choice) with mags - check
8x100round Stanag Mid-Caps - check
M-series Aeg's preferred - check
Motorola Compatible PMR - check
Danish M84 camo on order

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Robster wrote: »

Requesting to join Blue Troop,

OD Molle Vest with pouches - check
Brit Sheemagh - check
Sidearm (personal choice) with mags - check
8x100round Stanag Mid-Caps - check
M-series Aeg's preferred - check
Motorola Compatible PMR - check
Danish M84 camo on order

Robster, welcome aboard.

Harekin

French Centre Europe

Requesting to join Red Troop,

Stanag Mag Compatible Main, check
Danish M84 Uniform, check
MOLLE pouches, check
Brit Sheemagh, check
Sidearm with mags (and holster),check
P90 with 2/5 68rnd mags, check

Rest Ill have before April!

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Good man Harekin,

Welcome aboard.

Evolute

Other (please specify)

Haha if i met any of the requirements id join i gotta start saving up:p

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Evolute wrote: »

Haha if i met any of the requirements id join i gotta start saving up:p

lol, get the uniform and then the AEG. Then get your scrawny "Jay-And-Silent-Bob" ass out to HRTA

Boston

French Centre Europe

OD Molle Vest with pouches - I have this. Thought would probably be willing to buy similiar in danish camo.

Brit Sheemagh - check
Sidearm (personal choice) with mags - Deagle

4x100round Mp5 Mid-Caps
10x140round G36 Mid-Caps

M-series Aeg's preferred - I've a G36 and I've an mp5 on order.
Not a huge fan of the m4 or m16 series.

Motorola Compatible PMR - check

Danish M84 camo would order.

Why danish btw. From a quick look it seems fairly hard to source and nothing in the way of goretex or smocks.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Danish Camo because it is designed for places with a high level of coniferous trees. Most of Ireland is seeded with scandanavian pine trees (spruce, pine etc) and bush which provides oblong shapes. The Dane-tarn works quite well for this, its cheaper than cadpat and operates in a similar way to Brit DPM (which might be used as a winter back up considering the availability of goretex). There is plenty of M84 around on flecktarn or combat store. Also, its pretty unique.

We are going with Molle vests because the modular design lets people re-arrange their kit to be missions specific (HRTA a mag pouch, Berget a full load plus extras) and in OD because it wont clash too much with the uniform.

We arent using the MP5, rather the P90 for the smaller profile it presents. I have a MP5 and no P90 myself so this isnt favoritism.

The G36 is fine so long as you swap the magwell to accept M-16 stanag mags. The idea being that everyone on the team uses the same mags so ammo can be shared between us all. We went with the armalite compatable mags because they are cheap, loads of them about in various configurations and they are used on the widest number of formats (SA80, FAMAS (modern), M4, M16, M249, FN2000 etc). In most cases I honestly dont care what format you choose so long as everyone can use the same ammo when its needed.

Edit: I'll be getting this vest myself

NakedDex

MARPAT (USMC digital woodland)

Danish Camo at Recon Company

The M-Series rifles are for compatibility reasons with mags as well as for a uniform look. If you run out with a G36 mags in a shoot out and the guy beside you with an M15 runs out at the same time, he/she can grab a mag from someone else and keep shooting, you're stuck.
I'm not a fan of M-series rifles either but it's a milsim team and real deal military units don't have a pic'n'mix of personal choice primary rifles. You could also swap the magwell for a STANAG compatible one.


Edit: Beaten to it.

o1s1n

French Centre Europe

Evolute wrote: »

Haha if i met any of the requirements id join i gotta start saving up:p

Indeed. I don't have a single thing on that list! :eek:

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

o1s1n wrote: »

Indeed. I don't have a single thing on that list! :eek:

You joining up young man?

(I thought you had a sheemagh?)

(oh, and Type 89's are stanag compatible ... nudge nudge)

Evolute

Other (please specify)

Hivemind187 wrote: »

lol, get the uniform and then the AEG. Then get your scrawny "Jay-And-Silent-Bob" ass out to HRTA

I will. Im thinking on an M16a4 dont like m series but that looks deadly with a full length M203 on it

o1s1n

French Centre Europe

Hivemind187 wrote: »

You joining up young man?

(I thought you had a sheemagh?)

(oh, and Type 89's are stanag compatible ... nudge nudge)

I'd be interested alright. Forgot about that sheemagh. It's a start
Oh I also have a side arm. We'll there you go, all is not lost.

I'll start saving for the Type 89 so.

Evolute wrote: »

I will. Im thinking on an M16a4 dont like m series but that looks deadly with a full length M203 on it

What is that about? I don't like m series myself but absolutely love the m16 with 203. Can't argue with a classic I suppose.

Boston

French Centre Europe

Too much of a change at the moment. Best of luck with it.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Boston: Fair enough. give us a shout if you change your mind though.

Oisin & Evolute: Agreed, the M16 with the 203 (handguard version) is seriously sexy. But then I'm partial to armalites.

Thinking about it, I might make it a standard that everyone uses either an Armalite format or Type 89 format primary. They look similar enough and it would make us look more organised (a lot of this will come down to psychological warfare )

So Armalites (including HK416'), Type 89's, M249s are all a go.

Shiva

French Centre Europe

Hivemind187 wrote: »

So Armalites (including HK416'), Type 89's, M249s are all a go.

Ahem. HK416....an Armalite in everything but name. Although I have an '89 as well, so I suppose it ain't that important.

Hivemind187

French Centre Europe

Shiva wrote: »

Ahem. HK416....an Armalite in everything but name. Although I have an '89 as well, so I suppose it ain't that important.

Shhh ... don't let Alvin hear that, he cries.

I thought that the ejection port was different? The real deal is very different. the airsoft ... is a very nice M4