The big 4 are top but where will they finish?

gosplan

1:Arsenal: 14 games, 36 points
2:Chelsea: 15 games, 31 points
3:Liverpool: 14 games, 30 points
4:Manchester: 14 games, 30 points

Arsenal doing very well, Chelsea putting a decent run together, Liverpool looking really strong and Man U are at their usual tricks bar a blip against Bolton.

What order will they finish in and why?

I'm reckoning either Arsenal/Liverpool or Liverpool/Arsenal - followed by Man U 3rd and Chelsea 4th.

Reasoning is that Liverpool are really looking strong at the moment. They also finish well. I wouldn't be surprised if this actually was their year(finally!!).

I put Chelsea in fourth because they basically don't look as good as the other three at the moment and the African nations will take out some really important players.

Melion

I think it will come down to us(liverpool) and Arsenal for the top 2. As you said, we have been strong finishers for the last 3-4 years but our start had always ruined our chances before we even got to christmas. I predicted Arsenal would win it back in June/July(just after they sold Henry), im not too sure anymore though. They are grinding out results at the moment, id like to see how they react after a league defeat.

Oh and the reason i dont think Chelsea and United will be there is because this is a transition year for Chelsea(they'll be back even stronger next year) and United are way too reliant on Rooney and Ronaldo.

kida

Melion wrote: »

United are way too reliant on Rooney and Ronaldo.

lol - Torres/Gerrard

Melion

kida wrote: »

lol - Torres/Gerrard

We can win games without them and our game doesnt change too much when Gerrard doesnt play. United looked clueless against Bolton last week when those 2 were missing, and the same thing at the start of the year when they were both missing.

PHB

Never ever read too much into one game. If I was a betting man, I think I'd bet on Arsenal. That said, at this stage I could see either United or Chelsea catching them. As for Liverpool, I just don't think they'll put together a run of 6-7 wins in a row at least twice which is required to win the league. So far their biggest run is 3 in a row, which is up to now. By Christmas, I think they'll still be up there, but I expect them to drop behind United/Arsenal/Chelsea, but only by about 3-6 points. City, Portsmouth and United are in their next 5 games. If they come through those 5 games ahead of United and Chelsea, I'd say they'd be a good bet with Arsenal. That said, they have a viciously harsh run of games at the end of the year, like the last 8 is really tough.

Arsenal are an interesting one, and where the real issue is. They play each game like it's huge (which is how you win leagues) and are coming through some really tough tests in terms of injuries. Their deciding time will be Chelsea, Blackburn, Spurs, Portsmouth.

Do you think it's possible the league this year will be decided based on how the 4op do against the top 4? It's looking that tight.

gosplan

PHB wrote: »

Portsmouth and United are in their next 5 games.

Portsmouth have a real bitch of a run until Christmas. Then it gets better but they lose 249 players to the African Nations.

Time for some fantasy football substutions methinks.

SectionF

The big four will finish on top.
If they don't, and a proper club like Portsmouth or Villa sneak in, then something will have to be done to restore investor confidence.

mike65

Cynic! The top 4 will be the top 4 so yes business as usual but there will be no chasm within the top 4 or between them and the UEFA cup places. Could be a bit like the Championship was last season, with 8/9 teams in with a serious shout of a place in Europe.

Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd neck and neck with Chelsea forth.

Mike.

raven136

PHB wrote: »

Never ever read too much into one game. If I was a betting man, I think I'd bet on Arsenal. That said, at this stage I could see either United or Chelsea catching them. As for Liverpool, I just don't think they'll put together a run of 6-7 wins in a row at least twice which is required to win the league. So far their biggest run is 3 in a row, which is up to now. By Christmas, I think they'll still be up there, but I expect them to drop behind United/Arsenal/Chelsea, but only by about 3-6 points. City, Portsmouth and United are in their next 5 games. If they come through those 5 games ahead of United and Chelsea, I'd say they'd be a good bet with Arsenal. That said, they have a viciously harsh run of games at the end of the year, like the last 8 is really tough.

Arsenal are an interesting one, and where the real issue is. They play each game like it's huge (which is how you win leagues) and are coming through some really tough tests in terms of injuries. Their deciding time will be Chelsea, Blackburn, Spurs, Portsmouth.

Do you think it's possible the league this year will be decided based on how the 4op do against the top 4? It's looking that tight.

reading(A),united(h),Pompey(H),derby(a),City(a),wigan(h),Boro(a),Villa(H),west ham(a)sunderland(h) are liverpools next 10 league games and 25 points is more than possible.Other than united and city thats not a tough run of games

yom 1

raven136 wrote: »

reading(A),united(h),Pompey(H),derby(a),City(a),wigan(h),Boro(a),Villa(H),west ham(a)sunderland(h) are liverpools next 10 league games and 25 points is more than possible.Other than united and city thats not a tough run of games

I dont think its as easy a run of games as you think. Utd, Portsmouth, City and Villa are tough games. All of them are in the top 7 at the moment. However if we do come through that run of games with 25/30 points i'd be extremely happy and think we would be sitting pretty going into the second half of the season.

Unearthly

Melion wrote: »

We can win games without them and our game doesnt change too much when Gerrard doesnt play. United looked clueless against Bolton last week when those 2 were missing, and the same thing at the start of the year when they were both missing.

Nonsense, Liverpool have also looked clueless without Torres this season. How many times has he saved Liverpool and turned what might of been a draw into a comfortable last 10/20 mins?

I'd go for Man Utd/Arsenal for 1st and 2nd, Chelsea 3rd and then Liverpool 4th. Still too hard to say at this stage though

Pepe LeFrits

I still think United will win it but I can't decide who I think will finish 2nd to 4th. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out; I can't remember a PL title race shaping up like this in recent memory.

Tusky

Unearthly wrote: »

Nonsense, Liverpool have also looked clueless without Torres this season. How many times has he saved Liverpool and turned what might of been a draw into a comfortable last 10/20 mins?

I'd go for Man Utd/Arsenal for 1st and 2nd, Chelsea 3rd and then Liverpool 4th. Still too hard to say at this stage though

Liverpool 8 - 0 Besiktas.

kraggy

1.Arsenal
2.Man Utd
3.Chelsea
4.Liverpool

Arseanl look the part.

Man Utd won't win it cause they'll be concentrating even harder on Champions League.

And Chelsea will beat Liverpool because the latter are just going through a temporary good patch at the moment an will have a few slip-ups before the end.

Unearthly

Tusky wrote: »

Liverpool 8 - 0 Besiktas.

Fair enough good win, but lets face it Besiktas didn't put up a fight at all.

3 games Liverpool struggled to win the game

Liverpool 0-0 Birmingam

Blackburn 0-0 Liverpool

Liverpool 2-0 Fulham

Torres played 30 mins against Brum, didn't play at all against Blackburn, didn't come on till 70 mins against Fulham. Liverpool struggle to score goals without their best player

cson

The whole Torres/Gerrard - Rooney/Ronaldo debate is meaningless imo. If you take the best players out of any team it is obviously going to hurt them. And personally I'd rate the defence of both teams more important, what if Pool lose Carragher? Or Man Utd lose Vidic?

Bear in mind Arsenal are losing a huge player in Kolo Toure for the ANC. Which is why I can't see us winning it.

kaimera

Liverpool struggle to score goals without their best player

As do Utd.

Unearthly

kaimera wrote: »

As do Utd.

Never denied that, was not having Liverpool are all rosey without Gerrard and Torres when they clearly aren't

yahoo_moe

cson wrote: »

If you take the best players out of any team it is obviously going to hurt them.

Exactly - and rightly so. Options are great but any fan should be worried if you don't have a few players that you really miss. That's why winning the title takes a bit of luck with injuries, etc. too and why I'm sitting on the fence with this one - it's still too early to tell imo.

Really don't know how they'll finish but could be a cracker of a season if all 4 teams can maintain realistic challenges till March

raven136

just noting that all the talk of pools tough games still to come,have we not played arsenal,chelsea,blackburn,pompey,everton and villa already and are still unbeaten.it is shaping up to be a great 2nd half of the season but will the anc not really affect chelsea

chopperbyrne

raven136 wrote: »

just noting that all the talk of pools tough games still to come,have we not played arsenal,chelsea,blackburn,pompey,everton and villa already and are still unbeaten.it is shaping up to be a great 2nd half of the season but will the anc not really affect chelsea

They'll lose their two best players: Essien and Drogba.

gosplan

chopperbyrne wrote: »

They'll lose their two best players: Essien and Drogba.

Couldn't agree with this more. Arsenal may be able to rely heavily on their attack and handle a few games without Kolo but these two players are absolutly irreplacable for Chelsea. Shorn of Drogba, Essien (and Mikel??) they will have zero steel in their midfield and attack. If they expect to challenge they need to make some serious signings in Janurary.

Tusky

Unearthly wrote: »

Fair enough good win, but lets face it Besiktas didn't put up a fight at all.

3 games Liverpool struggled to win the game

Liverpool 0-0 Birmingam

Blackburn 0-0 Liverpool

Liverpool 2-0 Fulham

Torres played 30 mins against Brum, didn't play at all against Blackburn, didn't come on till 70 mins against Fulham. Liverpool struggle to score goals without their best player

I agree with you. Torres is definitely important to Liverpool but I dont think we are completely clueless or whatever way you put it, without him, and was just using the fact that a team without Torres broke the champions league record for goals scored in a game. Regardless of opposition,that is impressive.

If you take Gerrard & Torres out of the Liverpool team we will struggle for goals. If you take Rooney & Ronaldo out of utd they will struggle. Van Persie & Fabregas, Drogba & Lampard....etc

MrJoeSoap

PHB wrote: »

If I was a betting man, I think I'd bet on Arsenal.

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

I still think United will win it

Whats going on?

What ever happened to confidence!?*

*I think the Liverpool fans stole it

mayordenis

liverpool are clueless when they're missing torres only if they are also missing people who set things in motion, like kewell who's delivery would probably help kuyt and voronin and crouch alot more, because in fairness none of those 3 have had consistent quality service, kewell stays fit and liverpool win the league.
for me utd 2nd arse 3rd chelsea 4th.

Doodee

I think Villa prooved this at the weekend, Arsenal Need Hleb and Toure fit if they are going to challenge for the title. Villa took them apart in the second half when they weren't allowed to play their football, and thats been seen before with other club.
With Hleb fit they are unbelievable, his Pass ratio before getting injured was 90%.

Chelsea are beatable this season, they just dont appear as glued as they once were. They should be beating teams with 2 and 3 goal leads, not just 1-0's

Liverpool are playing fairly well, but they do lack a good alternative striker to Torres, and as for gerrard, well being a villa fan and having seen what he did with the ref Vs Everton, I'll accept the onslaught of abuse by calling him a ****ebag (and no, that has nothing to do with his skill as a player, he's just a tosser).

If Man Utd re-gain their form after christmas, I think they are going to challenge for the title. It will be Man Utd and Arsenal challenging for no.1 position as both are lethal on the counter attack.

I can't say who will finish 3/4th but Chelsea or Liverpool will take one of those positions.
I also wouldn't rule out one of the clubs that are just behind them finishing in the top 4, we all know its possible. Season is still very close


Up the Villains!

gosplan

Doodee wrote: »

his Pass ratio before getting injured was 90%.

Pah, 97.5% more like.

Pepe LeFrits

Doodee wrote: »

With Hleb fit they are unbelievable, his Pass ratio before getting injured was 90%.

It was 98% I think actually, 39/40 passes. It is good to see Hleb getting recognition all the same.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Whats going on?

What ever happened to confidence!?*

*I think the Liverpool fans stole it

I tend to go for what you know*. Arsenal are playing very well at the moment but I don't think they'll go from being a 4th place team to 1st place team in one season.

Arsenal's first XI is superb (bar Almunia, who is a decent keeper but no more), but the squad is soft in the wide midfield positions and at centreback, and perhaps in attack too. At the start of the season I was expecting Arsenal to finish 3rd or 4th behind Chelsea and Man United (in that order), and while Chelsea's implosion leads me to think that 2nd is a possibility, my views on the overall quality of the squads hasn't changed.

I fancy Arsenal's chances of winning the 08/09 title, but this season will be too soon.

* Yes, I am a BSG geek.

gosplan

What do people reckon about the fact that United won it last year?

Is the hunger apparent enough?

It's very hard to lift teams, particularly young teams, to achieve year after year. I know Fergie's the absolute master at this but the premiership was never as competitive when they won 2 in a row before.

PHB

I don't think it's Uniteds lack of hunger this year that's effecting them. It's actually United are getting injuries in the one area that they don't have much depth, and that's up front. Saha hasn't returned to his form from last season, probably (actually hopefully) due to match fitness. Rooney has been in and out. If Rooney had been fit so far this season, there's no doubt in my mind United would be top. If Rooney can stay fit this season, there's little doubt for me that United can win the league. However, that's a problematic way to go. As such, I think we'll see some striker brought in in January.

spockety

Liverpool clueless without Torres?

Nobody likes thinking about Crouch I take it.

Liverpool have no chance of winning the league.. no sir.. hey what's that over there?? Yes, look, over there... no stop looking over here.. stoppit.

lordgoat

What will be interesting to see is how liverpool will cope at the end of the season when the league becomes a must win competition each week. All the other 3 have players who have been in that before, i think that experience will be vital to whichever team does win it.

Bobalicious93

1. United
2. Arsenal
3. Liverpool
4. Chelsea

i love the way Chelsea are consistently being written off

Melion

lordgoat wrote: »

What will be interesting to see is how liverpool will cope at the end of the season when the league becomes a must win competition each week. All the other 3 have players who have been in that before, i think that experience will be vital to whichever team does win it.

Every game is like a cup final. We have plenty of experience in that kind of game tbh

Brethitmanhart

1. Liverpool
2. Arsenal
3. Chelsea
4. United

Arsenal and Chelsea will slip up with the African Nations, United haven't been that great this season and I don't think they have depth...but it all depends on injuries...Liverpool have dealt without Alonso and Agger for a long while now...and Torres for a bit too. If Agger had played in the slip up games they would not have been slip ups. Agger is vital.
The Arsenal game if Alonso hadn't got injured, and Mascherano hadn't either when no subs could be brought on.
So alot is down to luck but Liverpool have amazing strength in depth bar centre back and striker....United have no strength in depth in a couple of areas...Arsenal don't have either...

PHB

So alot is down to luck but Liverpool have amazing strength in depth bar centre back and striker....United have no strength in depth in a couple of areas...Arsenal don't have either...

What areas?

DSB

I can't believe anyone thinks United will only finish 4th. Seriously, to me this seems like the most ridiculous opinion I've heard in a long time.

Unearthly

DSB wrote: »

I can't believe anyone thinks United will only finish 4th. Seriously, to me this seems like the most ridiculous opinion I've heard in a long time.

I think a lot of people in this topic are saying I want Man Utd to finish 4th, not what they think.

Won't admit that though

Mr Alan

I agree its ridiculous to say Utd will finish 4th.

cant remember who, but someone a while ago posted up a list of all the players in Liverpools team who have won a league before, and it was a good chunk of em, so saying they wont know how to if it comes down to it, is a bit silly too. and most importantly, Rafa knows how to do it.

If everything in the run in is even enough, and every game is like a cup final - i think we can definately do it. After all, most people admit that in one of games/cup competitions, Rafa is the best around (PHB is also on record as being of this opinion )

Unearthly

I think Liverpool can win the league and think it will be very close, one thing I'd count against them is they have to visit OT, Emirates and Stamford Bridge second half the season. Not saying they can't win there but will be tough, and I think whoever wins the league could be down to who does the best in the head to head matches.

Daemonic

The way Liverpool have played away from home in the league this season I don't think they'll fear trips away to the other 3 contenders. With Torres up front, playing on the break will suit them fine.

Unearthly

Daemonic wrote: »

The way Liverpool have played away from home in the league this season I don't think they'll fear trips away to the other 3 contenders. With Torres up front, playing on the break will suit them fine.

It's a huge step in class going to OT, Emirates, and Stamford Bridge though. Chelsea undefeated in how many years there? Arsenal only 1 defeat at Emirates, and OT is well Old Trafford.

redzerdrog

chopperbyrne wrote: »

They'll lose their two best players: Essien and Drogba.

did drogba's country qualify for the ANC?

something in the back of my head is telling me thay didnt but cant really remember

Unearthly

redzerdrog wrote: »

did drogba's country qualify for the ANC?

something in the back of my head is telling me thay didnt but cant really remember

They did, only African player I can think of not going is Adebayor. His country failed to qualify

redzerdrog

Unearthly wrote: »

They did, only African player I can think of not going is Adebayor. His country failed to qualify

that is prob who i was thinking of. I knew it was a big player for one of the teams

PHB

The whole idea that every game is like a cup final is silly. It means they are all important, but this isn't a cup, and you can't win the game on penos like Rafa is prone to doing (one of the reasons Rafa is so good at cups)

In conclusion, see my sig

I think McCarthy wasn't picked by South Africa.

Mr Alan

you are very annoying.

you will never give us an ounce of credit.

the day will come when you rue your smugness!

redzerdrog

top 4 will finish as follows:p

1 liverpool
2 man utd
3 chelski
4 arsenal

whatawaster

Arsenal
Man Utd
Liverpool
Chelsea

All within 5 to ten points of each other. If Liverpool are still unbeaten in Feb when they go to Chelsea (which i think they will be) then anything can happen. Though just being there or thereabouts at the end of the year would be very refreshing.

leninbenjamin

I've said to watch Arsenal since before the season began and I see no reason to change, if anything it's become stronger, they are a lot more versatile than i though they'd be and they are no longer relying on the same few to win them games, look at Flamini scoring...

I actually think Chelsea could pip the other two for second, they still have a damn good squad, and everyone is writing them and not really paying attention to them... they'll sneak up and make a good run out of it as long as Abramovich doesn't have another ego trip.

it should be though a very close finish. i hope it'll only be a handful of points in between the top 4, so i don't think it's inconceivable that any of them could end up fourth. or winner for that matter...

Dont be at yourself

This season could turn out like La Liga last season. At the moment, the top four are pretty much inseperable.

Arsenal's first XI is great, and they've been playing some of the best football in the league this season. Losing Kolo will be a blow, and if the likes of Gallas picks up an injury, it could raise serious questions. Prediction? 1st\2nd

Liverpool's perennial problem has been a rubbish start. Liverpool fans know the whole 'if the league started in October, we'd be champions' thing far too well. Other posters have said that they lack the capability to put together a run - I feel that's nonsense. Our defence is water-tight, and it's not unusual to go on a long run of games without conceding. In terms of injuries/African nations, we're well placed. Kewell, Alonso, Agger and Aurelio are all approaching full fitness, and we'll hopefully have a clean bill of health for the important Christmas run. The fly in the ointment is the Champions League - I may not be the only one who'd not be too downcast over a bad result in Marseille, if it concentrated minds. Prediction:1st/2nd/3rd

Man Utd: They have the talent, they have the experience, they have the manager. They won't be affected by the African Nations. However, Fergie will no doubt have an eye on Europe, after coming close last year. They're a little short on defensive cover, and perhaps haven't been playing as well as others, but they always finish strongly. Prediction:2nd/3rd

Chelsea: Mourinho's departure didn't have the expected impact on the club. They're winning, if not playing particularly well. Losing Drogba, Essien and Mikel is a huge blow, and it will be interesting to see if there are any ins/outs in January. I'm not sure if Grant has the experience/ability to marshall the squad through difficult times like Mourinho could. Prediction: 4th

It's all very much on a knife-edge, and it may very well come down to a key injury or a head-to-head.