Puggle Pups

Shooter McGaven

Anyone know of someone with Puggle Pups for sale?

cr1272

You should find out if there is an official club in Ireland, and go to them to get a list of recommended breeders. Don't go near Buy & Sell.

Chances are, you might have to go to the UK, in which case, again, contact the right people and go to a recommended breeder.

First stop would have to be the Irish Kennel Club I suppose. :rolleyes:

peasant

The "Puggle" isn't a breed, just a mix.
There is no breed standard and no breed organisation and they 're certainly not registered.

Any "breeder" you may find will be a "dabbler" at best.

Plenty of adorable mixes of all kinds in rescues.

In my my mind there is no need to pay anyone for "creating" a new mix.

cr1272

I agree with the previous poster. If it isn't a pedigree breed, then you should NEVER pay.

summer_ina_bowl

The recognised breeds have only come about from people selectively breeding for desirable traits, so if you want a dog to share the characteristics of a pug and poodle - why can't you pay for it? really, i'd love to see all mongrels rehomed first, but thats unrealistic. a crossed breed has the perks of knowing the size/coat etc to expect but the animal will be less prone to breed specific illnesses, i think that refusing to pay because its not a particular breed is unfair, i mean, why not pay? you're not recieving inferior love/devotion/companionship.

peasant

summer_ina_bowl wrote: »

The recognised breeds have only come about from people selectively breeding for desirable traits, so if you want a dog to share the characteristics of a pug and poodle - why can't you pay for it? really, i'd love to see all mongrels rehomed first, but thats unrealistic. a crossed breed has the perks of knowing the size/coat etc to expect but the animal will be less prone to breed specific illnesses, i think that refusing to pay because its not a particular breed is unfair, i mean, why not pay? you're not recieving inferior love/devotion/companionship.

First off ...a "puggle" is a mix between pug and beagle (supposedly)

Secondly, a crossbreed has no guarantee whatsoever of showing a clearly defined appearance or behaviour ..we're not mixing "yellow" with "blue" here to receive "green" but it's genetics instead. So there can be quite different appearences between litters and even in the same litter ...never mind different behaviours and temperaments. What happens to those dogs that don't look as advertised and are unsellable?

Thirdly, crossing two breeds with all their associated health issues does not automatically mean that nature only selects the healthy bits from either breed to combine it to an issue free new result ...it can (and does) go the other way as well.

And lastly, while I'm no great fan of established breeds or breeders, at least some of them genuinely have the health of the breed at heart and do research and selective breeding to improve the breed ...wheras (in my opinion) all these new "breeds" are just created to expand the market, offer "something new" ( and hopefully fashionable) and make more money.


The whole dog population worldwide through overbreeding is by now so riddled with heredetary diseases that the last thing it needs is more new "breeds" where more amateur "breeders" dabble at stirring the genetical soup ...in most cases to the detriment of the dogs.

EGAR

Pugs are known to carry these genetic diseases. This list is not meant to be complete.

Atopy
Cleft Palate
Collapsing Larynx
Collapsing and Hypoplastic (small, narrow) Tracheas
Demodectic Mange
Distichia
Dystocia
Elongated Soft Palates
Entropion
Everted Laryngeal Saccules
Heart Disease
Hemivertebra
Hernias
Hip Dysplasia
Hypothyroidism
Keraconjunctivitis Sicca
Lagophthalmos
Laryngeal Polyps
Legg-Calve-Perthes Disease
Liver Disease
Luxating Patellas
Missing Teeth
Pigmentary Keratitis
Portosystemic Shunt
Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)
Pug dog Encephalitis (PDE)
Renal Disease
Seizure Disorders
Tongue To Big and Long For Mouth
Wry Mouth; teeth out of alignment


Beagles also have a wide variety of genetic disorders:

Eye Disorders
Cherry Eye -- Very Common
swelling of the gland of the third eyelid
Glaucoma
increase in fluid pressure inside the eye
Cataracts
clouding of the eye lens
Retinal Dysplasia
folding or displacement of the retina, may lead to blindness
Progressive Retinal Atrophy
cells of the retina deteriorate over time causing blindness

Other Disorders
Epilepsy -- Very Common
brain dysfunction resulting in seizures
Elongated Soft Palate
soft palate at the back of the throat is elongated and interferes with the larynx
Hypothyroidism -- Very Common
Dysfunction of the thyroid gland, causing numerous clinical signs including wieght gain poor hair coat, reprodcutive problems and more.
Cleft Lip and Palate
opening between oral and nasal cavities, can impede pup from nursing
Monorchidism
one testicle does not descend
Cryptorchidism
both testicles do not descend
Intervertebral Disc Disease
degeneration of the intervertebral discs, causing severe neck and back pain
Pulmonic Stenosis
heart defect, may cause heart failure
Kidney Failure
Bladder Cancer


Lovely crosses - I'd say - will come out of that and HUGE vet bill if you are unlucky...

kerrysgold

summer_ina_bowl wrote: »

The recognised breeds have only come about from people selectively breeding for desirable traits, so if you want a dog to share the characteristics of a pug and poodle - why can't you pay for it? really, i'd love to see all mongrels rehomed first, but thats unrealistic. a crossed breed has the perks of knowing the size/coat etc to expect but the animal will be less prone to breed specific illnesses, i think that refusing to pay because its not a particular breed is unfair, i mean, why not pay? you're not recieving inferior love/devotion/companionship.

The current recognised breeds have been developed over years of breeding, ''puggles'' and all the other ''designer dogs'' are just first generation mongrels, you can get a mongrel any time from a pound/rescue for a small fee/donation and give a nice dog a good home without paying out hundreds for a dog and be lining the pockets of some eejit adding to the dog overpopulation and calling himself a ''breeder'' .....

Shooter McGaven

Thanks for all your replies guys, ive decided to go to the local rescue, the problem is im looking for a small dog (i live in a small town house) hence the puggle pups, so i hope they have something small...

Thomas_S_Hunterson

EGAR wrote: »

Lovely crosses - I'd say - will come out of that and HUGE vet bill if you are unlucky...

The reason those breeds have such a huge list of common diseases is, like all pedigrees, they are genetically extremely weak because of the tiny gene-pool that is the result of very selective breeding. It is somewhat similar to incest.

A crossbreed is likely to be much stronger genetically.

peasant

Sean_K wrote: »

The reason those breeds have such a huge list of common diseases is, like all pedigrees, they are genetically extremely weak because of the tiny gene-pool that is the result of very selective breeding. It is somewhat similar to incest.

A crossbreed is likely to be much stronger genetically.

Not quite ...

To stick with the "pool" analogy:

If you mix water from one shallow& murky pond with the water from another shallow & murky pond the resulting mixed water is not going to run clear all of a sudden

In order to introduce greater genetical diversity you dont want to breed from genetically restricted breeds but from real mongrels that still posess most of the original, diverse "dog" genes.

But then of course you have the problem that you don't know what you're starting with and if the end result is accident or "design" and the additional "problem" that none of your end "product" is marketable because they all look different and aren't instantly identifiable.

They'd most likely be healthy(er) but far less profitable ...

and so were back to the reason why there are so many "designer" crosses out there at the moment ...they look good and the "crossbreeds are better"-myth helps sell them.

peasant

Shooter McGaven wrote: »

Thanks for all your replies guys, ive decided to go to the local rescue, the problem is im looking for a small dog (i live in a small town house) hence the puggle pups, so i hope they have something small...

When talking to the rescue, describe your situation as honestly and correctly as you can and they should be able to find a suitable dog for you.


Don't get too fixated on size. Large & quiet is probably more important than small & noisy in your situation.

summer_ina_bowl

shooter, i'm glad your going to a shelter, imo, its definately the best choice! pm me if you don't find a suitable dog as i work closely with a shelter that may be able to help!

EGAR, you could write up a list of dispositions that long for just about any breed.

beagle/poodle, my view doesn't change, that just because your dog won't come with a bit of paper means you shouldn't have to pay for it. i think that is a choice to be decided between the current and future owners.

also, it really is true that even first generation mixes are less prone to pre-disposed illnesses.

peasant

summer_ina_bowl wrote: »

beagle/poodle, my view doesn't change, that just because your dog won't come with a bit of paper means you shouldn't have to pay for it. i think that is a choice to be decided between the current and future owners.

By the same rationle you would have to pay people who's unsupervised pets had "a bit of an accident" for their pups as well ...then again most people do just that anyway

also, it really is true that even first generation mixes are less prone to pre-disposed illnesses.

Care to back that up with some evidence of the scientific kind? (possibly not released by the breeders of "oodles, poos, doodles" and other creations)

kerrysgold

It's brilliant that your going to get a dog from a rescue!
You could also try the local pounds

summer_ina_bowl

peasant wrote: »

...you would have to pay...

i didn't say you should have to pay, just that if you wanted something in particular, then you should be able to choose to pay.

The crossing of two in-bred lines results in progeny that are more vigorous than either parental line: they are often larger and more resistant to disease.

Heterosis Effect


Purebreds and inbreeds often carry genetic disease. Heterosis is the phenomenon where crossing two inbred lines can produce descendants with superior genetic foundation. This increased health and vigor does not create a superior breed, but the advantages obtained from it are what produce hybrid vigor. This goal in this scenario is not to create a new breed, but to create a happy and healthy pet.

Heterosis effect results in a healthier, more vigorous dog with a reduced chance of genetic disease. It is well known in all domestic animal breedings, hybrids 50%-50% mixes of two different breeds will raise the chances of having less genetic diseases because all doubling of detrimental effects will stop in the first generation. The genetic term for this is HETEROSIS EFFECT. This effect often gives non-related individuals stronger descendants than inbreeds.

also, i'm a veterinary nurse, and my views are of course based on my own experiences. :rolleyes: hmmmm, i'm not here to fight peasant...

peasant

I'm not here to pick a fight either ...but please not the use of wording like CAN and OFTEN (rather than will and always) in the bit that you quoted there

But even IF a first generation cross is healthier than both its pure bred parents, the effect is then soon negated by having (or wanting) to reproduce the winning formula for marketing reasons. All the "designer breeds" are marketed as separate "breed" with a brand name. Their producers don't sell "hopefully healthy fisrt generation crosses of random breeds" ...but "Puggles", "Labradoodles", "Malti-poos" and whatever else looks and sounds cute.
So once the first generation is sold, they start to "solidify" the "breed" by breeding crosses with crosses (to get the uniformity of appearance the new brand needs in order to sell) ...and hey presto ...we're back to square one. Just another inbreed "breed" with its own set of health issues.

If people absolutely want a cross, they should pick a Heinz57 from the pound, delight in its uniqueness and not support another set of greedy dog multipliers

fits

Or a ponydoodle... theres hybrid vigour for you!

Toots

Cross between a poodle and a my-little-pony??

kerrysgold

Any luck with the dog search, Shooter?

Dian George

<SNIP>

star-pants

Dian George - this thread is 2 years old, also there are no sales on boards.ie.
Our rehoming thread is only for animals that need rehoming due to certain circumstances.