How to heat a house?

MichaelR

I and my family live in a rented house. We have a 2 year old kid so we want to be warm. And we're failing to get the warmth...

The house is a rural concrete bungalow from the late 60s. It has a big big room that's joined with the kitchen, as well as four bedrooms. There's oil heating, and the big room also has a fireplace.

Now, the fireplace does not appear efficient (even a proper damper isn't there), and I don't use it. I am trying to heat the house with the oil heating and I'm just failing. I can't get it up to 20 degrees, even if the heating runs some hours! (Celsius of course).

Initially, heat was also escaping fast, and we started chasing drafts. I have jammed the fireplace as heated air was escaping through the chimney. The windows are double glazed and a friend has put expanding foam into the cavities under them. Two «sun» windows on the ceiling in the big room were drafty; weatherstripping helped with one and we put some polyethylene over the opening to the other. We locked the patio dor and covered its edges with masking tapes, stopping drafts from there... We can not find obvious drafts anymore.

Now the heat escape is somewhat slower. But we still can't heat the house even up to 20 degrees. Heating a small bedroom with an oil filled radiator is possible, but the big room is just cold, at 17-18 degrees. My family feel cold there in the nights even when the thermometer is at 18.

The house is good and strong. But as I rent it I can't do any rebuilding.

What can we do to make this house warm? Or is this just an impossible task?

(Use the fireplace? But won't the heat just escape through the chimney? Besides, I probably can't keep it running 24 hours, and when it's not burning heat will escape still).

I'd really appreciate advice! I don't want to spend enormous money on oil, and I want to make the family warm...

oleras

By the sounds of it the heating system may need to be upgraded, rads and boiler. have you checked what kind of insulation is in the attic ?

You say you are renting, maybe come to some agreement with the landlord to allow you €500 off the rent to fit some attic insulation, if not get a few rools yourself and put them over the bedroom and living room.

I can empathise with you, had a really cold house, changed the alu double glazing (~15 years old) to uPVC this summer and oil bills went from 50/week to about 30/week and now the house actually gets warm and not, not cold anymore.

MichaelR

I've looked up into the attic and there is insulation on top of the ceilings. The roof is apparently not insulated, however.

The double glazing was only installed this summer, plastic all right.

Perhaps the heavy concrete walls themselves are just too hard to heat? Even the internal ones are real strong, as I found when I drilled them to hang some stuff.

As a cheap alternative to upgrading the rads, I thought of getting a couple of fans to blow at the rads providing faster heat exchange - would that work? And, would not it take oil at gigantic aounts?

anthony4335

Sounds like the heating system might not be up to the job. Large area needs a large rad, or a couple of doubles, There is a web site that will help calculate the heat required for the room (http://www.radcalcs.com/) might help. you might just be better off moving ,as it is rented, let the landlord deal with it.

bauderline

To ask the question, how hot do the rads actually get ?

lukewarm / hot / very hot ?

baud.

davidoco

What temp is the dial on top of the oil burner/boiler set to? You can set it anywhere between (usally) 55 to 80. Yours might be set too low. You can increase that but remember with children the rads may become very hot and also you will be burning a bit more oil but the hotter those things burn the more efficient they get.

Also, I know it might be a duh question, but is there a thermostat somewhere in the living part of the house, do you hear it clicking on and off?

10-10-20

MichaelR wrote: »

I've looked up into the attic and there is insulation on top of the ceilings. The roof is apparently not insulated, however.

OK, so what type and what depth of insulation is installed on the ceiling?
Do you have breaks in the insulation (around light fixtures, piping...)
Is the attic used for storage?
Is the access hatch insulated?

The double glazing was only installed this summer, plastic all right.

Perhaps the heavy concrete walls themselves are just too hard to heat? Even the internal ones are real strong, as I found when I drilled them to hang some stuff.

You will find that once the core of the house is heated that it will be less difficult to hear from then on in. Perhaps you are loosing so much heat that the core just isn't getting warn at all. Do you have any rooms which you are keeping cold - ie by having the radiator off?

As a cheap alternative to upgrading the rads, I thought of getting a couple of fans to blow at the rads providing faster heat exchange - would that work? And, would not it take oil at gigantic aounts?

Yes it could help, but if the rads are caked in paint and such, you aren't going to be able to draw the heat off fast enough... You will still have the issue of the loss of heat though - it appears that this is your first step.

MichaelR

Thanks for all questions... here are the answers:

I think I don't wanna move as I have a good deal and a landlord I know. So that's a last resort.

Attic: I have no idea how to determine type of insulation. It's some thick foamy dry stuff lying on top of the ceiling. I could not detect any breaks from looking into the hatch and did not risk going inside as I don't know if it will hold me (I'm heavy). Attic is not used for storage. The hatch itself is not insulated but it's not large and not in the problematic area; is there a cheap way to get it insulated without jamming it?

Boiler: Rads get hot enough that it's hard to hold a hand touching them. The temperature is set to 60 Celsius. I am wary of setting it higher because the boiuler is in the garage - I'm afraid the losses between garage and home would just make it burn constantly. Should I try a higher setting anyway? Also note that the system is somewhat old.

I have no rooms I am keeping cold, I don't turn off any radiators because I'm afraid of jamming the water system accidentialy (happened in a previous place, system had to be bled twice in six months).

There is no thermostat in the house, the only controls are the water temperature dial and the timer. Yeah, I know this should probably all be upgraded but I have to make do with what I currently have.

The bigger (problematic) room has two double rads - one shorter and one longer.

I have found a way around radcalc... apparently the room is under-radded for about one third Does this mean there is no cure apart from an expensive upgrade with pipe relaying?

10-10-20

If you could quickly measure the depth of the insulation (it's called rockwool) it will give us a better idea as to whether its depth is suitable for use in your situation. Just slide a ruler down between the rafter and the rockwool in two or more places (close to the hatch), and give us the average.
Ideally, you need up to 300mm (30cm) of insulation on the ceiling, but anything less than 200mm would account for a lot of lost heat.
Don't worry too much about the access hatch- it's secondary, but do ensure that it is not leaking air. Maybe screw it shut tightly if needs be?

What I have done is increased the insulation over rooms which need more insulation than others - my son's room and the front lounge. This means that I'm not pumping heat out in these rooms faster than I need to!

60 degrees is just about hot enough for the system - you should leave it at this (or just above) if you have concens about your child getting a scald.

djmc

I would turn the dial up to 80 and tell the kids not to touch the rads as they are hot
I would think they would need to have hands on it for a good few seconds to get burned it would be safer than a cooker open fire etc.

davidoco

MichaelR wrote: »

Boiler: Rads get hot enough that it's hard to hold a hand touching them. The temperature is set to 60 Celsius. I am wary of setting it higher because the boiuler is in the garage - I'm afraid the losses between garage and home would just make it burn constantly. Should I try a higher setting anyway? Also note that the system is somewhat old.

You may be pleasantly surprised by turning it up to 70 to see how things are. My oil system is on 70 always and 2 year old running around never pays any attention to the rads.

You mention heat loss between boiler and house. IMO turning up the stat is not going to have any bearing on that. At 60 it leaks heat the same way it would lose it at 70 or 80.

Get a big old duvet or blanket and lay it fully all over on top (including edges) of loft hatch. Then carefully close up the hatch. Might take a few goes to get it right but a ventilated attic can leak serious heat out a hatch.

You mention that the boiler is old. I know that you are on friendly terms with the owner but tell him that it has cut out a couple of times in the past month and you had to reset it (red light on burner). He should stand you a service for it. If there is a lot of soot in boiler you may not be getting a good heat exchange.

EDIT - if your hot water is heated by the oil with no control ie hot water whenever heating is ON, no stat on cylinder to close a valve when water at 60 then be carefuly turning up the stat on boiler as you will have a corresponding rasing of the hot water temp. Ignore if there is a mixing valve or if you turn up the stat and the hot water is not too hot to touch after 2 hours.

10-10-20

davidoco wrote: »

You may be pleasantly surprised by turning it up to 70 to see how things are. My oil system is on 70 always and 2 year old running around never pays any attention to the rads.

You mention heat loss between boiler and house. IMO turning up the stat is not going to have any bearing on that. At 60 it leaks heat the same way it would lose it at 70 or 80.

Not wanting to be pedantic, but the rate of loss of heat is higher at higher temperatures.

davidoco

You mention heat loss between boiler and house. IMO turning up the stat is not going to have any bearing on that. At 60 it leaks heat the same way it would lose it at 70 or 80.

10-10-20 wrote: »

Not wanting to be pedantic, but the rate of loss of heat is higher at higher temperatures.

Apologies, 10-10-20 is correct. Heat loss would be higher at 80 compared to 60 degress.

I have the figures somewhere for buried copper pie (insulated/uninsulated) but from memory there would be <20% increase increase in BTU loss per ft over that 20 degree difference.

MichaelR

Insulation depth appears to be about 15 cm. Also a large part of the problematic room is an extension uner a near-flat rof, no attic. I have no way to check how that is insulated; apparently there is some form of insulation as when I knocn on the ceiling I hear a "flat" sound, but I'm not at all sure there is *enough* insulation - and because there is no attic over the room, I can't add it!

After turning up the heat a bit and the end of the draft hunt, only that big room is a problem - the others are, more or less, warm.

GreeBo

davidoco wrote: »

buried copper pie

Mmm copper pie....:D

Reyman

A bungalow from the sixties will be either built using 9" concrete blocks or two 4" blocks with a gap in between. Either way the U is only about 2.0W/K/M2.
Because it's a detached bungalow you have lots of outside wall area and you may be living in an exposed area. There's really no way of heating a house like that unless you get a really heavy duty boiler. Your only chance of an improvement is by insulating the attic with at least 8" of fibreglass. As you're renting you won't want to spend money on that.

I'd say rent another house! Apologies!

Dilbert75

Have you spoken to your landlord about the problem? He might be persuaded to invest in extra insulation, maybe in the cavities, as it would improve the Building Energy Rating and make the house more saleable in the future, while also giving him a tax write-off... Just a suggestion. Other alternative would be to get a Infra Red Thermography survey performed - it can easily identify exact sources of heat leakage (and damp). I've heard this guy mentioned favourably in the past but have never used (or met) him.