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Budget Day - How empty is the cupboard?
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The problems in the health service have little to do with the amount of money given and everything to do with the amount of money spent. No matter how much money you give the HSE, it will be spent with very little return. Consultants and management have the whole thing sown up tight. Until we break them, money is irrelevant."Fair" would be the government doing a u-turn on their big pay increases & public sector pay increases, & also a u-turn on the 32million about to be forked over to those jokers in the GAA for their "county players" ..... that's money in both cases better spent on the HSE ...... approx. 64 million euros buys alot of medical equipment ........ so you tell me what's truly fair .... the rest of us have to tighten belts but the government don't have to? That sounds like facism to me ......
Stop smoking == less poverty?Also, the majority of smokers in ireland ARE in the poor bracket ....... so do the maths on that one .....
Seriously though, nobody is forcing anybody to smoke. How can you say that a tax on cigarettes is unfair on the poor? That's like saying that a tax on ivory backscratchers is unfair on the rich. Cigarettes are 100% luxury items. If you can't afford them, stop smoking them.
Tax will *always* impact the poorest people first, no matter where you apply it. Increase the higher band tax rate, and the cost of doing business goes up, impacting the poorest most. That's the nature of taxation.0 -
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The problems in the health service have little to do with the amount of money given and everything to do with the amount of money spent. No matter how much money you give the HSE, it will be spent with very little return. Consultants and management have the whole thing sown up tight. Until we break them, money is irrelevant.
Stop smoking == less poverty?
Seriously though, nobody is forcing anybody to smoke. How can you say that a tax on cigarettes is unfair on the poor? That's like saying that a tax on ivory backscratchers is unfair on the rich. Cigarettes are 100% luxury items. If you can't afford them, stop smoking them.
Tax will *always* impact the poorest people first, no matter where you apply it. Increase the higher band tax rate, and the cost of doing business goes up, impacting the poorest most. That's the nature of taxation.
What is it with boardies reading into things that aren't there ....... sheeesssshhh
Smoking is more predominant through the poorer levels of society, & instead of being a more socially responsible government and going on a drive aimed towards these people, they instead take more money off them. Yes smoking is a choice, so is living ... so what ..... the simple fact is that it is David-Copperfield-style-economics being bandied by a government with no balls. If you want people stopping smoking, ban the sale of them altogether.
In relation to the stuff with consultants - again, you're glossing over the facts when this thread is about the budget .... money is going to the wrong areas in any case. I will veer off slgihtly (so apologies).
The institutions looking after mental health are woefully underfunded, and little is being done to address it. Even money for machines, 64 million euros would replace a number of cancer check machines. Yes I'm aware of the blah blah about people who manage the HSE - but again, that comes down to this government & its continued trouserless approach to management where apparently no-one is responsible for everything ........
leaders are responsible for troops .... beginning, middle & end of.
This is a sham budget, which is a contradiction to election promises made by the majority party in government who knew full well the state of irish finances at the election time, and it is a budget that does nothing to help the weak & vulnerable in our society as the biffo claimed ....... it'll be the last time Fianna Fail ever get a vote from me or many others I know, or the last time I ever do work for them on their behalf at grassroots ........
:::: ven0mous ::::0 -
Then where would you get the money from?If you want people stopping smoking, ban the sale of them altogether.
That smoking still exists in 30% (?) of the population means that you can't just stop selling it. It brings in a lot of money for the Government. They know that smoking puts a massive strain on the health services, but they're not interested in eradicating it overnight. You couldn't remove that amount of money in one fell swoop, much like you couldn't remove VRT or Stamp Duty in one go.
That poor people smoke more I think is irrelevant. If they can't afford them, they won't buy them. If they want to smoke, let them puff away and fund the rest of us.
You said the money "would be better spent on the HSE". I disagree 100%. The HSE needs to better spend its money.In relation to the stuff with consultants - again, you're glossing over the facts when this thread is about the budget .... money is going to the wrong areas in any case. I will veer off slgihtly (so apologies).
In theory. In reality, that 64 million would be spent in the first week in January, on almost nothing.64 million euros would replace a number of cancer check machines.
The impending economic issues were evident well in advance of the election. Everyone who did some independent research and watched the markets knew that FF would be unable to deliver on any promises in their first 3 years.This is a sham budget, which is a contradiction to election promises made by the majority party in government who knew full well the state of irish finances at the election time, and it is a budget that does nothing to help the weak & vulnerable in our society as the biffo claimed
I wouldn't say it's a sham budget, just a bit of an uninspired one. For most people, there will be little difference between this year and the last.0 -
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leninbenjamin wrote: »slightly off topic, but this is something that constantly rankles me. that is actually wrong.
1) smokers contribute more revenue to fund the health service than they will typically utilise in services under the current tax regime.
2) over the course of their lifetimes smokers actually use up less health resources than someone who lives a long life. it's someone who gets to the age of 80 but spends a lot of time in and out of hospital with various ailments in the last few years of their life.
if everyone was a smoker our health system would have more resources available to it and less drains.
I think they should tax alcohol and junk food and the lifestyle that goes with them if thats the case they're probably the reason the health service is overburdened. My grandmother is over 83 years old smokes and is rarely in hospital afaik and neither drinks nor eats poorly. (Could resist this post ) 0 -
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I don't think our health minister would be too happy about a tax on junk food
LOL!!!
What the f*ck can't tobacco be taken out of the CPI and then lump as much as possible onto the cost. 30c increases will not result in many people giving up. Demand for cigarettes is inelastic (surely) as long as the increases are relatively moderate. If a huge chunk (25% or more) was whacked on the price the demand may become elastic. As things stand an increase of x% in price will lead to a decrease in sales of less than x% and hence an increase in revenue*
*disclaimer, the above is based on intuition, I haven't looked at actual figures
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brianthebard wrote: »You get taxed on laser cards as well? AIB sent me a letter saying I'd be receiving a new laser card in the next few weeks, even though I didn't ask them for one. Sneaky bastards.
If you only ever use the Lazer card in ATMs, you'll be charged government tax as an ATM card. If you use it only in shops, you'll be charged as a debit card. If you use both, you pay both. Apparently anyway 0 -
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