Abuse of Teaching Staff

armada104

Following the release of results for an assignment in a second year Commerce Marketing module, the course coordinator felt the need to post the following on Blackboard:

<snip> wrote:

Hi Everyone – I am happy to engage in dialogue with you re your assignments, but please bear in mind the following before emailing me:

1. Getting my name correct in any communication is a good start!

2. Using bad language to communicate with me may get my attention, but it most certainly WILL NOT receive a response from me.

3. Please bear in mind that being the co-ordinator for your course is only one part of my job and thus an immediate response from me, to your queries, as some of you requested (demanded) is not always possible.

4. Please read the School policy on appropriate ways of communicating with staff via email.

For those of you who contacted me in a much more appropriate manner I am looking into your queries and hope to get back to you within the next 48 hours.

On a related matter AGAIN may I point out if you have any queries regarding your presentations you must contact <snip> directly, as she is the person co-ordinating this part of the course.

Cheers,
<snip>

I assume she hasn't written this as a result of receiving one or two nasty emails. There must have been a fair few.

Now, I don't want to sound like Ernie Ball, but who do these people think they are? I can't imagine being in a state of mind that would cause me to consider demanding immediate replies or swearing in emails to staff (that's just plain thick).

Sometimes the comments of classmates make me wonder. There seems to be a growing sense in UCD (it may well just be Quinn) of entitlement to spoonfeeding. I can quite clearly see the indignance etched upon the faces of those who attended lectures in this module and thought that that would give them sufficient knowledge to write an A-grade essay. These people expect to be rewarded for minimal effort.

I know I sound like a preachy pain in the arse, but I'm by no means a model student, quite the opposite. But I at least have the cop-on to know when I deserve a ****e grade in a module.

Raphael

Honestly, if I were in the lecturers shoes, the temptation to fail people who sent the kind of emails that provoked those rules would be so high. That someone would try and pull that kind of **** is just depressing.

Now, I don't want to sound like Ernie Ball...

I swear, if that becomes part of UCD forum slang...

Tá Mé Gaeilge

I do this module and can't really imagine what the problem is- <snip> is really nice and is one of the only coordinators who comes and actually engages with all of the lectures. Infact i can safely say it's the most engaging class i've ever had in UCD with the best lecturer too. It's defo not an Ernie Ball scenario....

Bare in mind about 600 students do this lecture between Bcomm, BCIT and BBL so it is a fairly big one. I think the problem was that the original project results posted on blackboard were wrong so some people must have been angry about it as they thought they deserved more- she did clarify it straight away though.

breadmonkey

armada104 wrote: »

Now, I don't want to sound like Ernie Ball

Lol, he's going to have a field day with this one.

But yeah I agree, bunch of fúcktards.

pretty*monster

My god, disgraceful isn't even the word...

Stabshauptmann

The names have been (rightly) sniped so I dont know if it's the same lecturers I had for marketing management in second year, but the marking for that module did seem the most arbitrary out of my 3 years in Quinn.

The other thing, and I know its a slight tangent, is that what deserves an "A" can sometimes differ widely between modules. A student gets used to thinking X no. of references, y no. of arguements and z. conclusions gets me an "A" in my other 9 modules, why is it only a "C" for this *****!

And though being abusive to a lecturer would never have crossed my mind as a smart way to address the problem (a bit like cursing a bouncers mother, thats not going to get you in) there is a problem to be addressed.

Maybe the standards of the lecturer who gave the C were fair and all the other lecturers too lenient, thats not relevant, there needs to be a uniform standard accross different modules within the same course.

MarkOShea

I do that module and the marking seems fair enough.

We have do do an essay worth 20% and an individualu presentation worth 10%. According to Blackboard the average grade for the essay is just under 65% and just under 62% for the presentation.

So in general there can't have been many complaints and those that are complaining would want to cop on to themself. Unless you were failed or didn't get a grade at all.

Having said that, I thought my essay was marked fairly hard! Guess I'm still in first year mode

MuddyDog

i'd love to know how the student(s) addressed the lecturer when they wrote to them.

Umaro

I did that subject last year and I got an A-

I don't recall doing a ridiculous amount of work for it, but we did have an incredibly good lecturer and I love Marketing a lot. It's the only part of Commerce I can stand. I hope this wasn't directed at my old lecturer, she's a fúckin cool woman - she's the one that used to work at Diageo, can't remember her name for the life of me though.

Stepherunie

To be honest I've had far worse from lecturers.

To me that's rather mild and just stating his case as to how he feels his class should act.

Red Alert

That posting to blackboard sounds incredibly reasonable - which makes me wonder what must have been said in e-mails.

I have made a mess up job of certain exams - it was my own fault. All the material was on the syllabus. Assuming this lecturer didn't base the assignment on things not on the syllabus then the complainers clearly could use the time spent complaining to better themselves and their mark.

armada104

Stepherunie wrote: »

To be honest I've had far worse from lecturers.

To me that's rather mild and just stating his case as to how he feels his class should act.

Of course. But she shouldn't have to!

I wasn't suggesting that the Blackboard posting was in any way harsh. IMO it's very measured and with just the right amount of sarcasm.

I'm just saying that she must have received an awful lot of abusive or demanding emails to warrant having to write something like that.

I think it's a disgrace that second years have to be told not to swear in an email to lecturers. These people are all at least 18 years of age! And I would never have the arrogance to demand an instant reply from anyone. The mind just boggles.

armada104

Red Alert wrote: »

That posting to blackboard sounds incredibly reasonable - which makes me wonder what must have been said in e-mails.

I have made a mess up job of certain exams - it was my own fault. All the material was on the syllabus. Assuming this lecturer didn't base the assignment on things not on the syllabus then the complainers clearly could use the time spent complaining to better themselves and their mark.

Exactly. For the record, this is one of those incredibly well organised modules you refer to. It has an extremely comprehensive course outline detailing exactly what's required of students, both in their assignments and in exams. An extensive list of optional reading materials was provided. Each essay title was based on only one part of the course. It couldn't have been more clear cut.

K now I really sound like a prick.

stolenwine

I agree with what she says but surely if its only a few students who are behaving like this she should report them to the head of department and deal with them head on instead of sending a "dear all" email to the whole class.

UCD lecturers seem to like these "dear all" type of emails the template for which normally reads "Dear Class, i am upset because two of you are behaving like morons and I want the rest of the class to guess who it is."

redcar

I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than a few, I am in 2nd Commerce and not really shocked that the co-ordinator has sent this, with past experience from how some people react to grades.

And the co-ordinator is not the type that would send this out without cause, kind of person that puts heart and soul into it. I have a new respect for Marketing because of her.

Tá Mé Gaeilge

armada104 wrote: »

.

I think it's a disgrace that second years have to be told not to swear in an email to lecturers. These people are all at least 18 years of age!

A lot of them are third years doing B&L

redcar wrote: »

And the co-ordinator is not the type that would send this out without cause, kind of person that puts heart and soul into it. I have a new respect for Marketing because of her.

couldn't agree more. This is actually the only one of my subjects i would not or have not complained about

Cannibal Ox

armada104 wrote:

I think it's a disgrace that second years have to be told not to swear in an email to lecturers.

Yeah you'd wonder all right. I'd like to see what was said in the emails.

Raphael wrote:

I swear, if that becomes part of UCD forum slang..

seraphimvc

IMO,your lecturer/the-one-who-grade-you REALISTICALLY can do whatever he/she wants if he/she feels like,especially on those essay type assessment.

NORMALLY,he/she will do the normal procedure of the marking thingy.in the case of he/she doent like your essay that much,you will fairly get no more than A,maybe as high as A-/B+.If you are the one who 'annoy/disturb/anger' him/her,he/she has the 'right' to give you a D or even fail if he/she wants,because he/she can give thousands of reasons for that,just need to risk if thing goes serious that essay might be examed by other examiner(which is really rare) ,but eventually he/she will be alright tho,"ah,just some inevitable marking mistake'',unless you are the son of PM maybe will get him/her fried....:p
Bulls*it?true,but fact-that can really happens!

so?respect/fear them,as they are the one who decide your first class degree/pass/fail!treat them nicely ,talk/speak/act good!that's the essential of being a smart student:)

p/s:are ya seriously telling me that lecturer need to reply to every email they received from student about questions/homework?!i think all the lecturers have stated that somehow,if you have question,please ask in the class/after the class/come to my office...be grateful if you get reply from lecturer/s...they are busy-attending conferences all the time+lots of student asking them question....

Breezer

seraphimvc wrote: »

IMO,your lecturer/the-one-who-grade-you REALISTICALLY can do whatever he/she wants if he/she feels like,especially on those essay type assessment.

NORMALLY,he/she will do the normal procedure of the marking thingy.in the case of he/she doent like your essay that much,you will fairly get no more than A,maybe as high as A-/B+.If you are the one who 'annoy/disturb/anger' him/her,he/she has the 'right' to give you a D or even fail if he/she wants,because he/she can give thousands of reasons for that,just need to risk if thing goes serious that essay might be examed by other examiner(which is really rare) ,but eventually he/she will be alright tho,"ah,just some inevitable marking mistake'',unless you are the son of PM maybe will get him/her fried....:p
Bulls*it?true,but fact-that can really happens!

so?respect/fear them,as they are the one who decide your first class degree/pass/fail!treat them nicely ,talk/speak/act good!that's the essential of being a smart student:)

p/s:are ya seriously telling me that lecturer need to reply to every email they received from student about questions/homework?!i think all the lecturers have stated that somehow,if you have question,please ask in the class/after the class/come to my office...be grateful if you get reply from lecturer/s...they are busy-attending conferences all the time+lots of student asking them question....

What? Maybe I'm just tired, but it seems that the only bit of that post that was in the least way coherent was the last paragraph. Which I agree with - to an extent. I do feel that lecturers should reply to reasonable emails regarding personal questions; they are supposed to be there to help you and are getting paid for it. Immediate replies are not necessary. Questions regarding the class as a whole, such as queries relating to exams (rather than your individual grades), should be channelled through your class rep so that the lecturer doesn't get 200 similar emails.

Many lecturers don't like questions being asked in class, as they have a set time in which to deliver the lecture. In my experience, most do take questions after the class, unless they have a specific reason to be rushing off. Many don't like students arriving unannounced at their office, and prefer you to email them either with the question or asking to make an appointment. It all depends on the individual lecturer though.

As for the first bit, you appear to be saying that a lecturer can mark something whatever way they like and you'll have to live with it. This is not at all true. A student has every right to appeal their marks, and all lecturers are answerable to the module co-ordinator.

seraphimvc

Breezer wrote: »

What? Maybe I'm just tired, but it seems that the only bit of that post that was in the least way coherent was the last paragraph. Which I agree with - to an extent. I do feel that lecturers should reply to reasonable emails regarding personal questions; they are supposed to be there to help you and are getting paid for it. Immediate replies are not necessary. Questions regarding the class as a whole, such as queries relating to exams (rather than your individual grades), should be channelled through your class rep so that the lecturer doesn't get 200 similar emails.

Many lecturers don't like questions being asked in class, as they have a set time in which to deliver the lecture. In my experience, most do take questions after the class, unless they have a specific reason to be rushing off. Many don't like students arriving unannounced at their office, and prefer you to email them either with the question or asking to make an appointment. It all depends on the individual lecturer though.

As for the first bit, you appear to be saying that a lecturer can mark something whatever way they like and you'll have to live with it. This is not at all true. A student has every right to appeal their marks, and all lecturers are answerable to the module co-ordinator.

my point simply means that any *smart* student wouldn't do anything on lecturer to make him response in giving an announcement like that:) and seems student/s said something rude/bad to OP's lecturer .saying that from the point of seeing how important of lecturers to us...

it's true that you have every right to appeal your marks,what i mean is,lets say,your essay deserves a A,he gave you a C,and you spend your time find the module co-ordinator/explain/contact the examiner etc,...why would you make your life harder?and after 2 weeks,eventually you get a max of A/A-....or maybe just a B/B+(depends on the essay type).can that not happens?very rare,but possible.

personally,once, in my secondary school,whole class kinda f*cked up with the teacher...and the teacher came out with a paper full of very difficult questions(maths),the paper was within the syllabus so we cant complain, very high standard/time consuming questions...really dont wanna see that happens in college:( only 4 out of 60 people passed.....