Whats with the new growing trend of being too posh to push

girlwitcurls

im a midwifery student and a mother and i cannot get over the increasing numbers of woman who put themselves and their child through an operation (c-section).For no good reason!!I understand if the mother or baby is at risk but why go through a major operation if everything i normal.And the pain after far outways the pain of labour!6 weeks unable to drive.Why are irish women in particular giving into this trend??

Shelli

Vanity I guess. Obviously if there is no valid reason for a section it's pure vanity.

Please dont get me wrong, I know that many women need sections for thier own health or that of the babies.

Nevyn

I don't think it is the too posh to push I think it has more to do with the wanting to pick the day of arival or having a cut of date so they are not left waiting.

but I think it has to be said that it should only be when needed and not when wanted and the dr adn surgeons play a part in that.

loyatemu

are they cutting themselves open? the doctors who are agreeing to it are just as much to blame.

Oryx

It could be vanity, obviously. Or as mentioned, knowing the date allows you to fit it into your life better and not be waiting. Its not something I would agree with but I realise some women have highly pressurised lives.

It could also be a fear of labour and that pain. We live now in a world where real pain is not familiar, we have painkillers for almost every ache. We're all familiar with how operations go, you dont feel pain during it, someone else does the 'fixing', and you wake up and pop more painkillers. We are conditioned into feeling that the medical profession will be able to medicate away our discomfort. Or at least thats how I percieve it.

Labour is a whole other thing. Pain is a natural and expected part of it, half the time you are pregnant you are being told how to prepare for dealing with labour and pain. Even with epidurals you will still have to experience the onset and initial stages. That can be extremely frightening if your not sure how you might cope with that level of pain. So a c-section might seem like the easier option, because its dealt with as a medical problem (not a natural process) the physical aspects of birth are taken away from the women, and medicated accordingly.

As an aside, I was shocked in hospital how freely the medical staff doled out painkillers to new mums. They were offering them like smarties to girls who hadnt asked and didnt think about them till they were offered.

girlwitcurls

yes your correct, you would see a surge of women going for elective sections and demanding to be induced to be home in time for christmas.is the world gone mad????is anyone thinking wats best for these women and babies.fear of labour, i mean when you get pregnant you have nine months to prepare what else would you expect!!and with pain relief readily available(the ball, tens, bath, entonox, pethidine, epidural) which are far less traumatic to the baby why are women opting for a major surgery??

BostonB

How do you choose a C section? Is that not a medial decision made by the medical staff, or can the mother just insist on a C section?

girlwitcurls

money money money. going private you can insist on anything!

High&Low

Hospitals are far quicker to recommend C sections than in the past.

My daughter was breech, there was not enough fluid left to turn her, so my wife was told she had to have a section and this went fine. I was suprised though that on some form I saw at a later stage that this was considered an "elective" c section.

Beruthiel

wow
I never knew you could insist to have one.
Old age..

girlwitcurls

Hospitals are far quicker to recommend C sections than in the past.

My daughter was breech, there was not enough fluid left to turn her, so my wife was told she had to have a section


well doctors are far more likely to recommend csection due to legislation!!!p.s a breech baby can be delivered vaginally but only a few consultants do it.il glad you recovered well but really it wasnt elective for you, you werent given another option.

High&Low

girlwitcurls wrote: »

well doctors are far more likely to recommend csection due to legislation!!!p.s a breech baby can be delivered vaginally but only a few consultants do it.il glad you recovered well but really it wasnt elective for you, you werent given another option.

My point was that I was surprised that it was considered elective when it really wasn't elective, as you said, my wife wasn't given any choice.

Maybe some of the statistics are skewed as a result of these non-elective sections being considered on paper as elective, or are you speaking from personal experience?

girlwitcurls

i am speaking from my placement in maternity hospitals and on booking visits the first thing women ask for is either a, epidural or b, c-section! an emergency c-section in when either the mother or the baby are at risk. i do see your point though and will have to investigate further into why a breech presentation was called elective.did anyone say about a vaginal delivary?how big was your baby?

Oryx

High&Low wrote: »

Hospitals are far quicker to recommend C sections than in the past.

My daughter was breech, there was not enough fluid left to turn her, so my wife was told she had to have a section and this went fine. I was suprised though that on some form I saw at a later stage that this was considered an "elective" c section.

Elective being planned rather than emergency. For good reason in your case I would think.

I know hospitals are quicker to elect to do sections when a child is breech or with twins, because of the risk of complications (and of course legal action). But I do worry that if these types of pregnancy are no longer delivered vaginally, ever, medical staff will have no experience of how to even try them. Which would consign them to the history books. Is that necessarily a good thing?

NextSteps

Forgive my ignorance, but what has vanity to do with how you deliver?

nesf

KtK wrote: »

I know hospitals are quicker to elect to do sections when a child is breech or with twins, because of the risk of complications (and of course legal action). But I do worry that if these types of pregnancy are no longer delivered vaginally, ever, medical staff will have no experience of how to even try them. Which would consign them to the history books. Is that necessarily a good thing?

Compared to chancing them every so often and risk losing the child? I know what you're saying, I just can't see the extra risk involved in practising being worth it.

girlwitcurls

a woman is not exactly looking her best in labour!!!!!!!!!!!thats wat vanity has to do wit it!

nesf

Surely fear of pain and/or complications would be the major driving factor?

High&Low

girlwitcurls wrote: »

i am speaking from my placement in maternity hospitals and on booking visits the first thing women ask for is either a, epidural or b, c-section! an emergency c-section in when either the mother or the baby are at risk. i do see your point though and will have to investigate further into why a breech presentation was called elective.did anyone say about a vaginal delivary?how big was your baby?

She was 7lb 9 and as far as I know normal delivery wasn't considered, it was in Holles street. She was sent to the breech clinic the day before, where she was scanned and told it wasn't possible to turn baby and to come in the following morning at 7.30am for a section.

metrovelvet

girlwitcurls wrote: »

a woman is not exactly looking her best in labour!!!!!!!!!!!thats wat vanity has to do wit it!

You think you look great pumped up with drugs, tubes stuck in your nose, your uterus taking out of your body and blood everywhere?

girlwitcurls

so putting your baby at risk by undergoing a major operation is better than fearing pain in labour?????

girlwitcurls

metrovelvet wrote: »

You think you look great pumped up with drugs, tubes stuck in your nose, your uterus taking out of your body and blood everywhere?

im agreeing with you!!!!!!im studying to be a midwife and i dont understand the mindset of women who WILLINGLY want this!

girlwitcurls

High&Low wrote: »

She was 7lb 9 and as far as I know normal delivery wasn't considered, it was in Holles street. She was sent to the breech clinic the day before, where she was scanned and told it wasn't possible to turn baby and to come in the following morning at 7.30am for a section.

well maybe the consultants thought the baby was too big to try a vaginal delivary. you werent given a choice in the matter. yours wasnt elective.

metrovelvet

girlwitcurls wrote: »

im agreeing with you!!!!!!im studying to be a midwife and i dont understand the mindset of women who WILLINGLY want this!

It baffles me too. I dont get it. You put your baby and yourself at serious risk. If its vanity thats behind it, it makes no sense, you look a lot worse sliced open and lying in the hospital with a catheter for two days. Yeah, those staples are just stunning!

littlebug

Beruthiel wrote: »

wow
I never knew you could insist to have one.
Old age..

In general, as far as I know, you can't. Most elective c sections are because the mother has had a previous section or because of the way the baby is breech etc. Most hospitals/ obstetricians won't do a c section for no good reason. I know of one person who travelled to have her baby in a different town because none of the Galway obs would do it. She was scared of natural birth to the point of phobia apparently. So it's not just a case of ask and you shall receive but if you really want a c sec you'll find someone to do it.
I don't really think it's a too posh to push thing... I think it's a fear of the unknown. The only other person I know who didn't elect to have a c sec but was very glad when she was told she needed one was much happier to have an operation because she'd had surgery before and knew how it worked and how she would feel after. I think the idea of tearing and stitches in the nethers really scares people as well as the fear of labour pain.
I wish there were more "good" birth stories around so people mightn't get so scared.

ETA. isnt it the case that all non emergency sections i.e because of previous section(s), breech, twins etc are called elective? Even though the mother herself hasn't elected for the surgery but is having it on Drs recommendations/ orders? Therefore IMO only a very small number of these are truly "elective" i.e just because the mother wants it but there are no real medical gounds for it.

girlwitcurls

littlebug wrote: »

In general, as far as I know, you can't. Most elective c sections are because the mother has had a previous section,

you can have a normal vaginal delivary after one c section

So it's not just a case of ask and you shall receive but if you really want a c sec you'll find someone to do it.

it is nowdays that case im afraid,they say in ireland there is no such thing as elective c-sections!im sorry to tell you there is very much elective most hospital even have one or two days dedicated to electives!

I think the idea of tearing and stitches in the nethers really scares people as well as the fear of labour pain.

i think i would prefer one stitch rather than a big scare with staples on it and possible not been able to walk properly for a week.fear of labour pain what about the fear of surgery??

I wish there were more "good" birth stories around so people mightn't get so scared.

people always want to tell you the horror stories dont believe it!!!

littlebug

Girlwitcurls are you talking about all electives i.e all non emergencies...i.e people who are recommended/ told they need c secs because they had previous sections/ breech etc?

All non emergency sections are called elective regardless of whether it's Dr recomended/ ordered or mothers choice.... aren't they?

I would be interested to see the "true" elective stats.

girlwitcurls

im talking about true elective caesareans.women who plan months in advance and book a date to have the operation.and believe me i am seeing growing numbers you wouldnt believe.

littlebug

girlwitcurls wrote: »

im talking about true elective caesareans.women who plan months in advance and book a date to have the operation.and believe me i am seeing growing numbers you wouldnt believe.

Are most of those not booked in advance because the mother has had a previous section? Is it not the case that mothers who have had one c sec will automatically be offered a sec second time round. in fact I've heard of women having to battle to try for a vbac. Would that not account for a lot of your electives given that 20+% of births are caesareans?

I really want to know because I'm really shocked if all of those are women who elect themselves for a section "just coz" :eek:

ETA: sorry.. I know I'm repeating myself. I just can't bring myself to believe it!

girlwitcurls

ok firstly after TWO sections you cannot have a normal delivary not after ONE!!!!!!!!!!

secondly i am not talking about woman who for the medical reasons of her or her baby have a section.

Thirdly woman are seeing it as a way out of the pain in labour and not seing the consequences!!

Fourtly In one hospital mondays and wednesdays are elective section days for women with NO medical reason to have a section but are PRIVATE and just want one.

Kernel32

I know here in the states their has also been a huge rise in c-sections. What I have read though is that it is due to doctors versus midwifes. Doctors pay huge malpractice insurance premiums. When you are using a doctor for a delivery and there is the smallest sign of a complication they advise c-section. They do that because for them it removes some of the unpredictability of the delivery by turning it into a medical procedure. If something were to go wrong during the c-section there are less gray areas medically which protects the doctor.

We used a midwife for our two children. They don't think of the delivery as a medical procedure but as a natural process. When a complication comes up they are much more likely to try and work through it. My wife's first labor lasted 3 days, we were in and out of the hospital and it really wore her down. If we had a doctor he would have been pushing hard for a c-section, pun not intended! The mid-wife never even mentioned the possibility. My guess is if we did use a doctor though the baby would have been delivered c-section because in these situations it's very difficult to second guess what a doctor is telling you.