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Whats with the new growing trend of being too posh to push

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    #92
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    To be fair embee isn't the one who started a thread making such claims...:confused:


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    #93
    kelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    money money money. going private you can insist on anything!
    A relation of mine had such a horrendous time giving birth that, second time round, she went private and demanded a C-section. The doctor refused!


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    #94
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    To be fair embee isn't the one who started a thread making such claims...:confused:


    she is making claims that women cannot choose to have a section for non medical resons.


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    #95
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    kelle wrote: »
    A relation of mine had such a horrendous time giving birth that, second time round, she went private and demanded a C-section. The doctor refused!


    maybe thats the case in mayo but not the rest of the country.


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    #96
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    she is making claims that women cannot choose to have a section for non medical resons.


    No I am not. I said that I have never met or heard of a woman that had a c-section for non-medical reasons. I'm sure it does happen. All I said was that I'd never come across it.

    If you really are a student midwife, girlwitcurls, then you know as well as I do that most elective caesareans are performed for some "medical" reason.


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    #97
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    obviously women in certain parts of the country can ask for and GET a section and a date with no problem from a consultant.in other areas this is not an option.i came on here to find out the reason why woman would want this for non medical reasons which is clearly happening.im shocked that trainee midwifes and lay people wont even acknowledge that this is happening.


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    #98
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    kelle wrote: »
    A relation of mine had such a horrendous time giving birth that, second time round, she went private and demanded a C-section. The doctor refused!
    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    maybe thats the case in mayo but not the rest of the country.

    Honestly, I don't see how you can speak for the rest of the country when you haven't worked all over the country as a midwife. I can well believe that kelle's relative was refused a section second time around. My experience is that sections, generally speaking, are not handed out willy nilly. Perhaps the placement you have been on has a particularly high rate of what you would perceive to be "non-medical" sections, but that doesn't mean that it is the case for the rest of the country at all.


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    #99
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    obviously women in certain parts of the country can ask for and GET a section and a date with no problem from a consultant.in other areas this is not an option.i came on here to find out the reason why woman would want this for non medical reasons which is clearly happening.im shocked that trainee midwifes and lay people wont even acknowledge that this is happening.

    I acknowledge that it happens occasionally but not nearly as much as you think it does. Maybe you should contact the hospitals you are talking about and ask them for the stats... not on all elective caesareans but on those that are carried out just because the mother wants one (no previous section etc). If you present us with the true figures then maybe we could discuss it.


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    #100
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    i am a student midwife actually and obviously have been open to more experience and theatre work especially sections. and the MAJORITY that i have seen are from women with no medical reasons purely by choice. You clearly are making the excuse that every woman has a reason, some do but im talking about the women who dont.


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    #101
    vandermeyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 200 ✭✭vandermeyde


    I know of two women (sisters-in-law) who were treated privately and went with a C-Section as a matter of their choice. No medical need for it. Both in Dublin.

    They "chose" the consultant because they'd heard that he would agree to the procedure in advance.

    It does happen.


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    #102
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    im shocked that trainee midwifes and lay people wont even acknowledge that this is happening.

    Well, I'm not going to say this again after this post, but at no point did I ever say that I didn't think it was happening. What I said was that I had no experience of either meeting or hearing of a woman who had chosen a section for a non-medical reason. I think I've said it twice or three times now, but perhaps you are selectively reading mine and other peoples posts and taking what you like from them. You seem to be making out in your posts that women all over the country are choosing this route, and that they are doing it in vast numbers, but in my experience the vast majority of elective sections are done for medical reasons.


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    #103
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    you really just want a fight and im not giving it to you. i know im right on this subject because i have had experience personally and professionally on this.it is happening a lot more than you think so maybe you should open your eyes!


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    #104
    littlebug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    vandermeyde wrote: »
    I know of two women (sisters-in-law) who were treated privately and went with a C-Section as a matter of their choice. No medical need for it. Both in Dublin.

    They "chose" the consultant because they'd heard that he would agree to the procedure in advance.

    It does happen.

    It does happen.. the consultant in Ballinasloe will do it too. But it is the case that those women who want it seek out those particular consultants (so their stats are probably skewed) but it is not the case that c secs are given at the drop of the hat on request.


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    #105
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    i am a student midwife actually and obviously have been open to more experience and theatre work especially sections. and the MAJORITY that i have seen are from women with no medical reasons purely by choice. You clearly are making the excuse that every woman has a reason, some do but im talking about the women who dont.

    How many vaginal births are you attending? I'm sure the majority of births you are attending are vaginal births. Tell me, do you have a problem with a woman preferring an episiotomy to a natural tear, just because its a possible "vanity" issue?
    vandermeyde wrote: »
    I know of two women (sisters-in-law) who were treated privately and went with a C-Section as a matter of their choice. No medical need for it. Both in Dublin.

    They "chose" the consultant because they'd heard that he would agree to the procedure in advance.

    It does happen.

    Again, as I've already said, I'm sure it does happen, but I would imagine it is the exception rather than the rule of elective caesarean sections.


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    #106
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    vandermeyde wrote: »
    I know of two women (sisters-in-law) who were treated privately and went with a C-Section as a matter of their choice. No medical need for it. Both in Dublin.

    They "chose" the consultant because they'd heard that he would agree to the procedure in advance.

    It does happen.


    thank you i agree


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    #107
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    you really just want a fight and im not giving it to you. i know im right on this subject because i have had experience personally and professionally on this.it is happening a lot more than you think so maybe you should open your eyes!

    I'm not looking for a fight with anyone. I do believe that you started this thread but don't really want to hear anyone elses opinion if it is different to yours. You keep telling me to open my eyes. They are open and have been throughout. The problem here is that I don't agree with what you're saying, particularly this :
    i know im right on this subject

    No you don't. You have no statistics or fact-based information to base your opinion on. At the end of the day, this is your opinion, it isn't fact, and if you come onto a forum and start a thread that will open a debate, you have to expect that people are going to question and throw doubts at your opinion.

    I'm perfectly entitled to agree or disagree with you. You don't have to turn around and accuse people of trying to start fights with you.


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    #108
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    embee wrote: »
    How many vaginal births are you attending? I'm sure the majority of births you are attending are vaginal births. Tell me, do you have a problem with a woman preferring an episiotomy to a natural tear, just because its a possible "vanity" issue?

    i am attending enough vaginal births and c-sections to further my knowledge. excuse me now but what has that got to do with this thread?????and vanity doesnt come into play in an episiotomy or a tear!an episiotomy could be essential to the vaginal delivary we were talking about sections that are non nessacary.


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    #109
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    embee wrote: »
    You have no statistics or fact-based information to base your opinion on. At the end of the day, this is your opinion, it isn't fact, and if you come onto a forum and start a thread that will open a debate, you have to expect that people are going to question and throw doubts at your opinion

    yours too is an opinion.have you stats to claim most electives are for medical reasons.


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    #110
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    i am attending enough vaginal births and c-sections to further my knowledge. excuse me now but what has that got to do with this thread?????and vanity doesnt come into play in an episiotomy or a tear!an episiotomy could be essential to the vaginal delivary we were talking about sections that are non nessacary.

    I'm asking you about vaginal births in relation to episiotomy. There are women out there who would rather be cut than risk a tear, and I am asking you if you think that there are reasons of vanity behind a decision like this. It is a fairly straightforward question and is related to an original comment that you made about how you thought non-medical sections had roots in vanity.


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    #111
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    What I don't understand is, if women DO want an elective section for no medical reason, what business is it of anyone else's? Including any attending student midwife...

    If a woman decides with her obs that she has weighed up the pro's & con's & has decided to go for a section - so what?! :confused:


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    #112
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    What I don't understand is, if women DO want an elective section for no medical reason, what business is it of yours?

    If a woman decides with her obs that she has weighed up the pro's & con's & has decided to go for a section - so what?! :confused:

    Exactly, Ickle Magoo. It's no one's business but the womans, and I think that midwives should try to be supportive of any womans decision, even if they don't personally agree with it.


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    #113
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    Ickle Magoo wrote: »
    What I don't understand is, if women DO want an elective section for no medical reason, what business is it of anyone else's? Including any attending student midwife...

    If a woman decides with her obs that she has weighed up the pro's & con's & has decided to go for a section - so what?! :confused:



    hello like what planet are you living on!!!!its major surgery not a picnic in the park and it puts unnessary pressure on the baby.its not natural, do you not realise which hole a baby should exit through!


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    #114
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    embee wrote: »
    Exactly, Ickle Magoo. It's no one's business but the womans, and I think that midwives should try to be supportive of any womans decision, even if they don't personally agree with it.



    well thats means youll be out of a job then doesnt it!


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    #115
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    hello like what planet are you living on!!!!its major surgery not a picnic in the park and it puts unnessary pressure on the baby.its not natural, do you not realise which hole a baby should exit through!

    There is really no need to speak to Ickle Magoo as if she is some sort of idiot, girlwitcurls. Any mother out there who has been through the system is aware that a c-section is no walk in the park.

    Yes, babies "should" exit through the vagina. But then, they "should" all be born head-first. They "should" all be the average size of a newborn. They "should" be born naturally as it is physiologically better for them in the short term. All placentas "should" be sited in the correct place and remain there. Womens pelvises "should" all stay intact and they shouldn't get crippling SPD. But childbirth is by its very nature an extremely variable thing and no two women will have the same experience. C-section babies don't do any worse in the long term than those born vaginally.


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    #116
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    well thats means youll be out of a job then doesnt it!


    How do you figure that one out? Most women in Ireland have vaginal births. Midwives still work in theatre and on post-natal wards. There are 2 very successful MLU pilot schemes in the North East, which will hopefully roll out to the whole country over the next few years. Homebirth and independent midwifery are slowly become more and more prevalent. Really, I don't think my future career is at stake because women are having sections.


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    #117
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    so as a midwife you sound like you are promoting c-sections. i think you need to find a new career prehaps. you are completely twisting everything i say. i am saying that women who choose a section over a vaginal delivary are putting more pressure on the baby.


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    #118
    girlwitcurls
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭girlwitcurls


    the creep up of sections in ireland will hinder the role of the midwife in future. i as a student midwife would prefer to work as a midwife encouraging women and empowering them to deliver vaginally not just going along with their decision to have a section.i think the midwifes role is with the woman not in a theatre!!


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    #119
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    so as a midwife you sound like you are promoting c-sections.

    Point out to me exactly where I said or even implied that. All I "sounded like" was that I would endeavour to be a support to any woman who made an informed choice regarding c-section or anything else. Stop putting words in my mouth.
    girlwitcurls wrote:
    i think you need to find a new career prehaps

    I could say the same about you to be honest. Where is your "with woman" philosophy? Are you only prepared to be "with woman" on your own terms?
    girlwitcurls wrote:
    you are completely twisting everything i say

    No I haven't been. You've accused me of looking for a fight, of promoting c-sections, of refusing to acknowledge that women out there are having non-medical c-sections, none of which I have said or even implied. Who is twisting whose words here?


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    #120
    vandermeyde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 200 ✭✭vandermeyde


    embee wrote: »
    Again, as I've already said, I'm sure it does happen, but I would imagine it is the exception rather than the rule of elective caesarean sections.

    The first one went to a consultant semi-privately with the VHI and asked straight up for a c-section and was told no. she subsequently heard about this other consultant who was more amenable to it so went privately herself and got it that way.

    I'd be in agreement that it's probably the thin end of the wedge at the moment, but it seems to be more prevalent now, it's certainly a topic of conversation amongst expectant parents that I know of. Most are not interested mind.

    This consultant is obviously raking it in. By the by, he put the first mother's delivery date back by a week because he was heading away on a golfing holiday :rolleyes:


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    #121
    embee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭embee


    girlwitcurls wrote: »
    i think the midwifes role is with the woman not in a theatre!!

    The role of the midwife is far broader than just trying to encourage natural birth. You can still be "with woman" in theatre. She still needs the support and trust of her midwife if she's having a section, in fact possibly more so as it is a very frightening experience for any woman to be operated on. A midwife doesn't just deliver babies - there are plenty of other ways in which a midwife can instill her "with woman" ethos without attending the womans vaginal birth. Case in point - breastfeeding. A midwife can help a woman establish breastfeeding (which in a lot of cases is just as important to a woman as a vaginal delivery is) whether or not she's had a section or a vaginal birth.

    A midwife is first and foremost an advocate for the women she cares for. Yes, she should promote and encourage vaginal birth, but if a woman is determined to have a c-section and her Obs. is in agreement, then a supportive midwife will be fully on board with the decision.


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