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Civil Service the real government of Ireland

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  • 05-12-2007 12:41pm
    #1
    Lockstep
    Registered Users Posts: 9,030 ✭✭✭


    I heard this mentioned in my politics class and feel it would be an interesting thing to build on. I was wondering what arguments could be made for or against such a statement.

    The ones I know are as follows:

    governments come and go but the civil service stays constant. THis gives them experience and continuity.

    Ministers are chosen for political, rather than ability reasons. THis means they can be very dependant on their ministries for their knowledge of implementation.


    These are just the ones I've assumed, if anyone could give me any other info that'd be great

    thanks


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    #2
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Someone put on a tape of Yes Minister did they? :)

    Senior civil servants (who are as well paid than the minsiters they 'serve') are the people who have the biggest input into policy decisions, they also control information so the elected minster is kept in the dark as required.

    Mike.


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    #3
    sovtek
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭sovtek


    mike65 wrote: »
    Someone put on a tape of Yes Minister did they? :)

    Senior civil servants (who are as well paid than the minsiters they 'serve') are the people who have the biggest input into policy decisions, they also control information so the elected minster is kept in the dark as required.

    Mike.

    I disagree. From what I can see Ministers come in to carry out their ideology and the civil servants must eat it...or get the union in. Look at the shambles of Justic/INIS..etc etc. Lenihan comes in with his "small government" agenda and therefore not hire more people to take care of the current (almost criminal) backlog on LTR and citizenship (yes this is a pet peeve of mine as it effects mine and hundreds of thousands of other immigrants' livelyhood and very security) applications. Do you honestly think the guys who have to process these want a mountain of applications to go through?


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    #4
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    I think that senior civil servants have a huge amount of input on policy and how its implemented - that said when a new minister comes in the civil service must work around his or her ideaology and priorities.

    I'd imagine they "advise" strongly where they feel the Minister is going wrong (ie not doing what they think is best) but how much they can direct policy is another thing.


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    #5
    guinnessdrinker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭guinnessdrinker


    mike65 wrote: »
    Senior civil servants (who are as well paid than the minsiters they 'serve') are the people who have the biggest input into policy decisions, they also control information so the elected minster is kept in the dark as required.

    I agree, plus I think the Minsiters are sometimes not as knowledgeable in their own areas as they should be.


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