Budget 2008 as it happens

skyhighflyer · 05-12-2007 7:42pm

It'll be nice to finally get the Supermini diesels though. I'm thinking new Fiat 500 1.3 multijet in 6 months time. 114 grams C02 meaning a 14% VRT rate, and cheap tax come next June or whatever. Happy Days - you don't need to look too hard to benefit from this lads...

Edit: BMW 318D down from 30 to 16% VRT!!!

Tipsy Mac · 05-12-2007 7:43pm

I can't see the new VRT rates being applied to 2nd hand cars imported into the country, the official CO2 figures for alot of these cars will not be easily obtainable and the system would be unworkable.

mike65 · 05-12-2007 7:47pm

Cars have only had an official Co2 "passport" since 2001 I think so how older vehicles are taxed will be interesting as will the matter of cars that pollute more over time. Will the NCT become a yearly test linked to annual road tax?

Mike.

skyhighflyer · 05-12-2007 7:49pm

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

I can't see the new VRT rates being applied to 2nd hand cars imported into the country, the official CO2 figures for alot of these cars will not be easily obtainable and the system would be unworkable.

Not true, C02 rates are available back to 1997, the UK has all the work done for us.

Pete4779 · 05-12-2007 8:17pm

306g/km for me.

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say to anyone who buys a new diesel next year with these new tax rates and to people driving small engined cars thinking they are eco friendly:

1. You will do more damage by buying that car on that one day due to it's production than I will in the next ten years of driving my car.

2. All the good you think you will do driving in traffic 20000km/year is doing far worse than me driving only 5000km at weekends.

And every cent I pay more than you in road tax will be consumed with extreme prejudice as long as taxation is not based on usage of road or fuel, or damage to the environment.

So, sit back, enjoy it the tax rules that make me pay for you, and I will enjoy undoing every bit of good you think you are doing by driving my car more, for longer, and faster.

**** you Cowen

peasant · 05-12-2007 8:18pm

skyhighflyer wrote: »

Not true, C02 rates are available back to 1997, the UK has all the work done for us.

all the work?

mine's 1990

:D

what_car · 05-12-2007 8:27pm

fletch wrote: »

It's not great. It falls into the second highest band of CO2 Emission bands of 32%. My car falls into the second lowest band so I'm really hoping for them to base motortax on the CO2 emissions come July

thats pretty poor alright, my car is a 2.0 L auto and it is 200g cO2 !

what_car · 05-12-2007 8:28pm

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

My 1.9TDI Passat reports 192 g/km - whatever that means :rolleyes:

my 2.0L petrol auto is 200g CO2 km

not much difference there.... how old is the passat.?

farva · 05-12-2007 8:41pm

I thought that I heard somewhere that there is a new motor tax system based on emissions coming in alongside the emmissions VRT system.

If there isnt and he has just hiked the current motor tax 9.5/11% thats an absolute disgrace!!

Has anyone heard anything about the emmissions motor tax?

james92 · 05-12-2007 8:47pm

Hi guys i dont understand the new vrt thats coming in.
iv booked a new mazda 3 1.6 petrol saloon its 162 co2 is that high. for jan 08. its 21900. will i be down money in july if i buy it in jan.

thanks guys

TJJP · 05-12-2007 8:49pm

farva wrote: »

I thought that I heard somewhere that there is a new motor tax system based on emissions coming in alongside the emmissions VRT system.

Has anyone heard anything about the emmissions motor tax?

Veiled reference to it buried in the speech:

"Motor Tax

Motor tax is an essential contributor to Local Government funding. Motor tax has not been changed since 2004. Since then the CPI has risen by around 15%. It is proposed to increase the existing motor tax rates by 9.5% for cars below 2.5 litres and 11% for larger cars from 1 February 2008. Details are contained in the Summary of Budget Measures.

To complement the changes in the VRT system, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government also intends to bring forward proposals that will link motor tax to CO2 emissions for new cars from 1 July 2008. These measures will allow consumers to act in an environmentally responsible way".

So Gormley gets his way in July 2008. Wouldn't rush to buy a 6L V12 just yet...

ninty9er · 05-12-2007 8:52pm

farva wrote: »

I thought that I heard somewhere that there is a new motor tax system based on emissions coming in alongside the emmissions VRT system.

If there isnt and he has just hiked the current motor tax 9.5/11% thats an absolute disgrace!!

Has anyone heard anything about the emmissions motor tax?

George Lee reckons that the VRT is going to be the test of whether Motor Tax is going to be emissions adjusted for Budget 2009

L1011 · 05-12-2007 9:12pm

119gm/kg on what my next car was planned to be, there goes the resale value

cantdecide · 05-12-2007 9:29pm

So it's hybrid trabants with zero manufacture related carbon footprint allround then?

The 36% (well, 48% actually) max rate isn't too bad. I'll still do that donut outside the Dail in my CLS55 AMG when my ship comes in:D.

_Kaiser_ · 05-12-2007 9:49pm

what_car wrote: »

my 2.0L petrol auto is 200g CO2 km

not much difference there.... how old is the passat.?

2002 Comfortline Auto (TDI - 130 Bhp)

unkel · 05-12-2007 10:31pm

Riskymove wrote: »

The only way to have a tax along the lines of what you are getting at is to have it on usage (i.e. on fuel)

so get rid of motor tax and increase petrol tax by €1 a litre or whatever; would you prefer that?

Indeed! Divide total current motor tax intake by the total number of litres of fuel sold and you'll have the extra excise duty that needs to be applied to a litre of fuel. Budget neutral and all

Now if you think that means fuel will be €1 a litre more expensive, you might be mistaken. Remember, everyone will pay the excise duty. Including those that pay no or very little motor tax

But the greens (and FF) do not have the balls to stand by their principle of "the polluter pays" because they are afraid of the commercial transport sector

Bubbagump · 06-12-2007 12:02am

Hi
I'm was going to order a new Astra 1.4 petrol for jan 08 tomorrow its 24900. Will the new VRT rates have an impact on the value of this car....

Thanks

ninty9er · 06-12-2007 12:35am

1.4 Corolla Petrol is going up from 25% to 26% VRT, while the Diesel is due to be reduced from 25% VRT to 16%....depends on emissions. Freely available in the brochures at the back under specs

ninty9er · 06-12-2007 12:45am

unkel wrote: »

But the greens (and FF) do not have the balls to stand by their principle of "the polluter pays" because they are afraid of the commercial transport sector

It may also have something to do with Transport providing tens of thousands of jobs in the economy!!

I think us paying what in essence is, at most €4/day isn't all that bad...anyhow my tax is only gone up €14...so I'm alright Jack...though my change in Feb will cost me €791 a yearif I can find the right car :eek::eek: I'll be more comfy though and my left leg will be well rested:D:D

JHMEG · 06-12-2007 1:05am

Pete4779 wrote: »

1. You will do more damage by buying that car on that one day due to it's production than I will in the next ten years of driving my car.

How much damage did your's do?

Pete4779 wrote: »

2. All the good you think you will do driving in traffic 20000km/year is doing far worse than me driving only 5000km at weekends.

How much damage will you have done by the time you've covered the same distance?

And then you come out with this two fingers to everyone and everything:

Pete4779 wrote: »

So, sit back, enjoy it the tax rules that make me pay for you, and I will enjoy undoing every bit of good you think you are doing by driving my car more, for longer, and faster.

astraboy · 06-12-2007 1:06am

Pete4779 wrote: »

306g/km for me.

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say to anyone who buys a new diesel next year with these new tax rates and to people driving small engined cars thinking they are eco friendly:

1. You will do more damage by buying that car on that one day due to it's production than I will in the next ten years of driving my car.

2. All the good you think you will do driving in traffic 20000km/year is doing far worse than me driving only 5000km at weekends.

And every cent I pay more than you in road tax will be consumed with extreme prejudice as long as taxation is not based on usage of road or fuel, or damage to the environment.

So, sit back, enjoy it the tax rules that make me pay for you, and I will enjoy undoing every bit of good you think you are doing by driving my car more, for longer, and faster.

**** you Cowen

I don't think people buy smaller cars to be eco friendly, they are forced into them by Putitative VRT and high road tax. Most people want to drive a car they enjoy, and if someone works hard and wishes to drive a large comfortable car that is their choice, fair play to them.

I completely agree about people using cars only on weekends or for non daily use, I walk to college every day and use my car 3 days of the week tops, yet pay as if I drive 365 days a year! Its also how you use your car, and how often, not just how much CO2 it pumps out per Km. I'm a huge supporter of the tax on fuel idea to replace road tax. EVERYONE then pays per mile and if you want a large car for irregular use you pay proportionately. Very simple really!

galwaytt · 06-12-2007 1:29am

fwiw, I just sent this to Joan Burton, TD

Dear Ms Burton
I believe you made comment this evening regarding VRT. Namely, that hybrid vehicles were in the upper echelon, price-wise, e.g. Lexus at Eur30,000, and that this was outside the range of ordinary people.

This is indeed alarming - could you please advise where I could get one.........this cheap. My dealer says the cheapest is Eur74,000.........see here for details. http://www.lexus.ie/hybrid_technology/index_gs450h_rx400h.asp

yours, in anticipation of unexpected value,

Galwaytt

Nice to see the politicians keeping in touch with the 'man on the street' ....at least the Lexus drivers, at any rate....:D

what_car · 06-12-2007 1:31am

galwaytt wrote: »

fwiw, I just sent this to Joan Burton, TD

Dear Ms Burton
I believe you made comment this evening regarding VRT. Namely, that hybrid vehicles were in the upper echelon, price-wise, e.g. Lexus at Eur30,000, and that this was outside the range of ordinary people.

This is indeed alarming - could you please advise where I could get one.........this cheap. My dealer says the cheapest is Eur74,000.........see here for details. http://www.lexus.ie/hybrid_technology/index_gs450h_rx400h.asp

yours, in anticipation of unexpected value,

Galwaytt

Nice to see the politicians keeping in touch with the 'man on the street' ....at least the Lexus drivers, at any rate....:D

is that the invoice price?? to special people

;)

you know, funny fakey invoices as mentioned in media lately.....

erm,, ill have me one of those, at €30k

unkel · 06-12-2007 1:34am

what_car wrote: »

is that the invoice price?? to special people ;) you know, funny fakey invoices as mentioned in media lately.....

LOL

Yeah the so called PMU invoices. Pick Me Up. Where a political party couldn't pay an invoice :rolleyes: So they asked for a third party to pay it for them :rolleyes: Indirectly :rolleyes:

Sorry for O/T...

what_car · 06-12-2007 1:40am

unkel wrote: »

LOL

Yeah the so called PMU invoices. Pick Me Up. Where a political party couldn't pay an invoice :rolleyes: So they asked for a third party to pay it for them :rolleyes: Indirectly :rolleyes:

Sorry for O/T...

scratches head......dollars / euros / or sterling? $ € £

:p:D

unkel · 06-12-2007 1:54am

The tevlon's long gone, but things still don't seem to stick

KeRbDoG · 06-12-2007 1:58am

Arse, my motor tax is going up from 821 to 899euro. Will it make me wanna get a smaller engine, no, not yet

galwaytt · 06-12-2007 2:02am

OK, time for a recap:

New & used cars from July 08, new VRT rates, based on emissions.
Question 1: where will they get the OMSP from ? Will it now be, lower?

Motor tax; all up by 9% or 11% from Feb, and going to CO2 from...July?
So, and here's where it gets messy:

Question 2a: If I import a used car after July (and figure out the answer to Q1...), I get to tax it based on emissions - yes?

Question 2b: If I have a current car, with a CO rating (188), but is currently taxed on the cc system - when the new system kicks in, if, by dint of it's CO2rating it attracts a lower rate of tax, will I be able to tax it under the new system (presuming it's less?). In other words, the lowest common denominator?

steveland? · 06-12-2007 2:17am

So... quick question... Given, If VRT is based on a percentage of the open market selling price of the car in question, and given VRT will decrease for a car coming into the country with lower emissions, this will reduce the open market selling price of the car, no?

So basically, you buy a car in, say, July 2008 with low emissions and the VRT is down however many %, you then go to sell it in, say, July 2009, you'd be selling it for less than you'd be selling it for if you were selling the same car now as people can buy them cheaper than before the VRT. This then averages out that the OMSP will be lower, which will lower the VRT the next year, then that change in VRT that year causes the OMSP to lower which causes the VRT to drop etc etc

I'm stuck in a loop I think...

(by the way I'm referring to constantly importing, driving it for a while and then selling off a car, then importing another of the same model the next year with the same value the previous car had one year previous, driving it for a while and then selling it off etc etc)

ninty9er · 06-12-2007 2:38am

galwaytt wrote: »

OK, time for a recap:

New & used cars from July 08, new VRT rates, based on emissions.
Question 1: where will they get the OMSP from ? Will it now be, lower?

I've just emailed Cowen asking a similar question...suggesting that it be based on pre-tax price, before VAT is calculated.

Budget 2008 as it happens

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