Patmar v Mc Guire Programme

KEVIN68

hello all . just joined up and was reading some of the maguire v patmar debate and thought i,d throw in my own experience . i completed both courses, not sure of exact dates but as far as i can recall did the maguire course about 10 years ago and patmar about 6 years ago . i found the maguire course quite a daunting experience but it did improve my fluency quite a bit . i attended the maguire self help group for about a year but even though my speech had improved i found i had as much fear and anxiety around my speech as before . i was quite busy at the time with kids /work etc and gradually drifted away from the group . in my opinion the maguire works well for some but we are all different with different baggage etc . and with hindsight it was not for me . the patmar programme was run over a longer time period and was based on a more rounded approach in my opinion . it felt like a safe environment to open up about scars of the past and for me the speech therapists and helpers were excellent . my speech improved but more importantly for me i felt better about myself stammering or not . since then i,ve attended self help groups on and off and whilst i,m far from fluent i feel a lot more relaxed when speaking . i agree totally with michael,s point that there is so much more to helping stammering than doing a course and everyone has a different path to walk . so i guess whatever course /treatment people go for if it works for them then run with it , talk soon

Michael O Shea

Hello to you all,
Very good debate, good and honest views from all of you, I would be inclined to agree that the debate is loaded by the title "Patmar V McGuire Programme" why should this be, is either 100% perfect, are any of us 100% perfect, was the title formed to cause this type of debate, maybe, maybe not, would Patmar or McGuire harm any of us I would think not, can we learn something from both yes we certainly can. Which one to attend, that choice is always yours, no one elses.

Do you need to work hard regarding changes that will be necessery to have a good quality of life regarding your verbal communication, whatever you percieve that to be, some will work hard, some wont, it happens in life everyday, we are all different.

How do you measure perfect speech for you, how do you measure the perfect speaker you, how do you measure a perfect speech recovery course for you, how do you measure success or failure for you, who has the final word on how you feel about your communication, just a few questions I needed to answer for myself, I thought I would share them with you, they may give you some answers. Whatever you do, it is all about you.

Their is hurt, shame, and feelings of difference attached to stammering, for some doing what is required to deal with their stammering will only come when the hurt has hurt them enough, or they realise how it also emotionally hurts more then themselves, or the head game of stammering for them becomes too great.

Speak soon,
Michael.
www.michaeloshea.ie

Karen23

bohsboy wrote: »

Patmar

I highly recommend this course and as far as I know there is a similar course in Dublin now run by a girl called Duana. I forget her surname but will try and track down some more information and stick it up here.

Regards,

Mick

My son attended a speech therapist called Dauna , I wonder if it the same girl. I'm presuming it is as Dauna is an unusual name , I've recently seen her in my daughters school too so she's obviously involved with speech therapy in my area. She's lovely.

At the moment I'm thinking of attending the Mc Guire programme in November but I'm so unsure of whether to do it or not.

Stephen P

Duana has no involvement anymore in the Dublin Adult Stuttering (DAS) course which is run by the HSE. She was one of three therapists on the DAS course when I did it, lovely girl and excellent SLT.

Rob Woolley

You know I signed up for McGuire Programme about 5 years ago after 3 years of procrastination. Since then I view my speech completely differently and yet I hear the same old stuff from the knockers who seem able to find a myriad of reasons why the programme failed them. You know stuttering is ingrained, it's deep, deep, deep into who we are as people a bit like a grass stain on white trousers. Now this doesn't mean stuttering is terrible but have you ever heard anyone say they have a "good" stutter? I haven't!
Because of how ingrained the stutter is it takes a lot of get back control, a lot of discipline. About here is where people zone out - "oh my God I don't have the energy, time, inclination to work HARD!" And they would be right and they will stay without control over that stutter. So they knock anything that makes them feel uncomfortable conveniently overlooking how uncomfortable they feel physical and mentally when having a block at an inopportune moment.
Let's be honest - stuttering out of control sucks! Some people grow accustomed to it because they have learnt that stuttering is something they do but doesn't have to define who they are as a person. What the McGuire Programme does is say the same thing, you are not defined by the stutter, then it says well why stutter when I can learn a technique to control it rather than vice versa. No one would choose to stutter when they could control it and the discipline you learn is not some regimented boot camp discipline, it is a discipline of honesty - being honest with who you are, what you want, and how to get it. This discipline not only gains you control over your stutter but control over your life - this of course is a threat to anyone who wants to remain in the world of ignorance of all they do whether it be stuttering or something else. Well good on them, but that's not how I want to live my life - in denial of my weaknesses and shortcomings.
I know of no one who has done the Programme and regretted it. I know some people who have to work harder than others to gain control and for whatever reasons can't bring themselves to do it, and I know of others who left after day 1 and regretted it or worse still thought they knew it all and hail to the world - "stay away!!!" These people should wake up and look themselves in the eye and think about the opportunity for control they are missing out on and all the damage they do to others who may avoid the same opportunity because of the negative comments they have heard. Those comments, had I heard them , would have put me off for sure.
But through the Programme for me has meant mental strength, determination I never previously had, the ability to persevere and use my voice where and when I want and not avoiding speaking because I would be too embarrassed. It has meant creating opportunities for myself I would not dared have taken before and as for the stutter, under control 99.9% of the time, I do public speaking, I teach communication now, I run my own business and I don't need fillers, lead ins, or aggression, to get those words out.
Is it better than PATMAR? I don't know, I have not tried it but it is better than everything else by a country mile. It's like everything in life, you get out what you put in and the good thing? You have a worldwide community helping you do it and we all want to see you succeed.
If anyone wishes to communicate with me about any facet of stuttering or the McGuire Programme email me at rbwoolley@xtra.co.nz
Be proud of who you are, do not be embarrassed by your stutter, but don't miss an opportunity to be a great communicator either