New Green Tax for motorists - threads merged

JoeA3

sk8board wrote: »

will be interesting to see how it effects the HOt Hatch market, or indeed the Mazda RX8 (268g) type cars.

It will indeed. The Golf GTI for example is 189g/km, meaning it just about sneaks into the €600 per annum road tax, so much the same as the current system. Another couple of grams, and it would be a grand! I believe the Focus ST and Astra OPC would fall into that category.

High&Low

Riskymove wrote: »

surely this means everyone wanting a large emmission spouting car will just buy them now instaed of after July and we end up with an extra surplus of these which can then be sold second hand and under the current tax system

Guess so, but you'll still probably have to pay €1,500 in car tax, so not a massive saving.

Riskymove

peasant wrote: »

Well ...it does.

If you buy a new car, you have the chance to compare figures, do your calculations and make an informed decision how much tax you're willing/able to pay and buy accordingly.

If you have an existing car, your decision was made based on the existing rates. It would be grossly unfair to change the rules retrospectively.
Not everybody can afford to just ditch an existing car and buy something greener tomorrow.

Ok ..so there may be few poeple out there that might get a slight tax reduction ...but also an awful lot who'd be hit big time.

But this means if I decide to be a good green and buy an environmentally friendly car I have to buy a new one!! What if I can't afford it?

And what if I already saw the light and have a prius?? I don't get to be rewarded?

mike65

Fair point peasant.

I love to know how they are going to measure cars as they get older and dirtier. Annual test?

Mike.

Riskymove

High&Low wrote: »

Guess so, but you'll still probably have to pay €1,500 in car tax, so not a massive saving.

only if over 2.5L

You could get lots of 1.6L upwards which will have signioficant higher tax under system from July, see comments on Golf above for example

and the saving is per annum not just once off, €500 a year cheaper tax is certainly worth doing??

JohnCleary

What if, say in August 2008 I import a 2003 car from the UK - What's the story there? New or old system? It's not a new car, but its been newly imported?

hottstuff

Interesting.

unkel

mike65 wrote: »

Then I'll buy a Fiat 500 turbo hybrid.

You and me both

And then drive it for 24/7 at the redline in an attempt to break the world record of CO2 production

mike65

What if, say in August 2008 I import a 2003 car from the UK - What's the story there? New or old system? It's not a new car, but its been newly imported?

They will use the manufacturers data I presume and charge you at the "new" rates after all you will have made the decision the buy in the knowledge the system has changed.

Mike.

sk8board

Riskymove wrote: »

according to Car Magazine the 520d has 158g so I guess we don't know who has the actual official figures that we can trust?

Thats correct, I've also found the 320d as being 136g.

since 2001 though, all manufacturers must have an independant certificate for all CO2 emissions for all cars sold within the EU.

The key note is that now everyone will be checking just how carbon-friendly their engine is, and I suppose thats the point of this exercise. awareness.

craichoe

gn3dr wrote: »

Really. Have you any figures to back that up? Last time I checked road tax in the UK was £150 per year for a car greater than 1600cc. Now compare that to Irish road tax and I think you'll find your statement above is wrong.

Road Tax in Holland is 1075 Euro per year on a 1.9 TDI. Here it works on the Weight of the Vehicle + Engine Type

VRT here is higher as well.

I'll think you find Road Tax is 180 pounds in the UK not 150.

Green Tax was brought in a week ago and their already doing it on Co2 emissions in the UK.. so i dont see how you can think its cheaper.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=85565&Rendition=Web

JohnCleary

mike65 wrote: »

They will use the manufactures data I presume and charge you at the "new" rates after all you will have made the desicion the buy in the knowledge the system has changed.

Mike.

It was just an example. My 320d is comign up as 153g - That means my tax would go to under €300 a year. I would be currently be payin gclose to 600eur since the budget increase yesterday.

So I VRT'ed my car 6 months ago - Does that mean i'll stay on the old system, paying almost 600euro a year tax? While my neighbour imports the exact same car (and year) next July, VRT's it and pay's the 'new' tax rate? That would mean he'd be paying about half the tax I do?!

Meister

sk8board wrote: »

Thats correct, I've also found the 320d as being 136g.

since 2001 though, all manufacturers must have an independant certificate for all CO2 emissions for all cars sold within the EU.

The key note is that now everyone will be checking just how carbon-friendly their engine is, and I suppose thats the point of this exercise. awareness.

try the offical UK dept of transport website.
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/index.asp

Riskymove

JohnCleary wrote: »

It was just an example. My 320d is comign up as 153g - That means my tax would go to under €300 a year. I would be currently be payin gclose to 600eur since the budget increase yesterday.

So I VRT'ed my car 6 months ago - Does that mean i'll stay on the old system, paying almost 600euro a year tax? While my neighbour imports the exact same car (and year) next July, VRT's it and pay's the 'new' tax rate? That would mean he'd be paying about half the tax I do?!

Thats what it seems to imply which is why it does not make sense

surely this is encouraging people with relatively new cars to buy new again after July in order to switch to cheaper tax thus increasing the numbers of both new and second hand cars which cannot be environmentally friendly!!

hottstuff

JohnCleary wrote: »

It was just an example. My 320d is comign up as 153g - That means my tax would go to under €300 a year. I would be currently be payin gclose to 600eur since the budget increase yesterday.

So I VRT'ed my car 6 months ago - Does that mean i'll stay on the old system, paying almost 600euro a year tax? While my neighbour imports the exact same car (and year) next July, VRT's it and pay's the 'new' tax rate? That would mean he'd be paying about half the tax I do?!

Well it says "new cars & imports" so that would be regardless of the year it was imported then.

mike65

The upshot of this will be a collapse in imports of petrol engined cars more than about 4 years old and a rise in diesels of any size and age.

Mike.

JohnCleary

hottstuff wrote: »

Well it says "new cars & imports" so that would be regardless of the year it was imported then.

That's what I was thinking, but arent all cars on Irish roads imported? Or by imported do they mean 'Not first registered in Ireland?' - This makes no sense to me

hottstuff

It certainly has had the desired effect on the consumer.

Ice_Box

Im at 157g so I drop from €539 to €430, yipee.

got my c02 from here by the way
http://www.smmtco2.co.uk/co2search2.asp

cashmni1

craichoe wrote: »

Road Tax in Holland is 1075 Euro per year on a 1.9 TDI. Here it works on the Weight of the Vehicle + Engine Type

VRT here is higher as well.

I'll think you find Road Tax is 180 pounds in the UK not 150.

Which is still lower ( by about 3 times for a 1.9) than Ireland.
Holland also has an exelent public transport system, and the fuel prices are also a lot higher in Holland. This is to encourage the use of internal public transport systems instead of using their precious reclaimed roads.
So, any other countries that are "a lot more expensive" than Ireland for tax?
It is also my right as a tax payer to "moan". Just because the Gov. say that it's right and true doesn't mean I have to agree.
I will say though, that you are right about one thing. Tax will always be with us and it will go up and not down.

galwaytt

unkel wrote: »

You and me both

And then drive it for 24/7 at the redline in an attempt to break the world record of CO2 production

make that 3. Mmm: group buy, anyone ??

endplate

Ha it balances it's self out in my house. My wife's car produces 145g/km her tax drops approx €100 and mine produces 180g/km and I'm looking at an increase of approx €100

CrowdedHouse

JoeA3 wrote: »

It will indeed. The Golf GTI for example is 189g/km, meaning it just about sneaks into the €600 per annum road tax, so much the same as the current system. Another couple of grams, and it would be a grand!

Are you sure? The VLC of mine says it's 192g/Km

craichoe

cashmni1 wrote: »

Which is still lower ( by about 3 times for a 1.9) than Ireland.
Holland also has an exelent public transport system, and the fuel prices are also a lot higher in Holland. This is to encourage the use of internal public transport systems instead of using their precious reclaimed roads.
So, any other countries that are "a lot more expensive" than Ireland for tax?
It is also my right as a tax payer to "moan". Just because the Gov. say that it's right and true doesn't mean I have to agree.
I will say though, that you are right about one thing. Tax will always be with us and it will go up and not down.

Diesel is 1.14 a litre at the moment in Holland, Petrol is around 1.45. And Road Tax is just part of it, we have the Annual Green Tax and the Conjestion tax based on what zone you live in. On top of that you have to pay 32 % tax on the low rate and 42% on the high rate with a max of 52% and theres no tax free allowance here either.

P.S. It's only North Holland thats Reclaimed land, the rest of the country, where all the big cities and business are (The Hague, Rotterdam, Utrect, Amsterdam) is not reclaimed.

Taxation in the Fuel would be the fairest system i think.

Although be prepared for another hike next year, Kyoto won't go away and neither will Irelands increasing debt.

I'm not a big advocate of the greens but environment or not, if we don't reduce Co2 emissions we'll be heavily fined.

hottstuff

JohnCleary wrote: »

Or by imported do they mean 'Not first registered in Ireland?' - This makes no sense to me

Yes.
Looks like ill be buying my first small diesel in 2008 then.:)

Mailman

the cars on this list are looking very attractive now.
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/information/how-to-use-the-data-tables.asp#petrol

Aygo, C1, and 107 look like great value.
VRT on them will go down.
Motor Tax will go down
and they always ran on a sniff of petrol.

I don't expect that much discount will be forthcoming from dealer on them in future.

RobAMerc

Ireland's head of idiotics has announced this (Taken from the independent.ie)! :eek:


"Environment Minister John Gormley has announced details of a new tax system that will penalise motorists based on their vehicle's carbon emissions.

At the lower end of the scale, cars that emit just 120 grams of carbon per kilometre will be subject to a yearly tax of €100.

At the higher end, cars emitting 225 grams per kilometre will cost their owner €2,000-a-year.

Mr Gormley says the move is designed to encourage people to buy more environmentally friendly cars.""

Yep Ireland will soon resemble Shanghai - with us all all mopeds while the elite classes and those in government drive proper cars !!

JoeA3

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Are you sure? The VLC of mine says it's 192g/Km

mmm... I noticed that it's also quoted at 192 or 194 on carzone and some other site I checked. But on http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/ and http://data.carmagazine.co.uk/gbu/, it states 189 g/km and 188 g/km for a DSG car. Also on volkswagen.ie it has it down as 189. So, it's hard to know who has it right?
EDIT: also states 189 here on the UK official site: http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/search.asp

prospect

BTW,

How much extra fuel is used, and how much extra CO2 is produced by thousands of cars in crawling traffic all over the country every morning & evening?

You cannot blame the motorist for problems caused by the government and their terrible decisions. (e.g. extending the lease on the westlink toll bridge)

unkel

Threads merged!

C_Breeze

Band A (under 120 grams per km) - €100.
Band B (121-140 grams perkm) - €150.
Band C (141-155 grams per km) - € 290.
Band D (156-170 grams per km) - €430.
Band E (171-190 grams per km) -€ 600.
Band F (191-225 grams per km) - €1,000.
Band G, the top band -€2,000, reflecting CO2 emissions of over 225grams per km.



Hmmm so a few questions.....



So these will definitely be our new road tax rates then yeah??

I assume these are per annum figures? - does any body know if we will have to pay extra should we choose to tax every 3 or 6 months as opposed to yearly???

And as of what date are these new rates put into play??

IRLConor

Details of the taxation changes on http://www.budget.gov.ie/:

Changes in motor tax (yearly)
Changes in VRT (at registration of a new/imported car)

Mailman

JoeA3 wrote: »

mmm... I noticed that it's also quoted at 192 or 194 on carzone and some other site I checked. But on http://www.cleangreencars.co.uk/ and http://data.carmagazine.co.uk/gbu/, it states 189 g/km and 188 g/km for a DSG car. Also on volkswagen.ie it has it down as 189. So, it's hard to know who has it right?
EDIT: also states 189 here on the UK official site: http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/search.asp

low profile alloys?

different values given for merc e class dependent on rear tyre size.

prendy

its stupid increasing tax on every size engine...if they left 1.4 and smaller as they were it would give families etc the choice and many would choose the smaller engine due to the increased saving!

drogbaa

I've just noticed this thread. I'm probably in the minority on this forum, but it's way overdue that cars were taxed on their CO2 emissions. I've some sympathy for the person above who only does 3000 miles a year - and a tax on petrol would also be useful. I think this is a great start (as I potter along in my Punto). I delighted all those g*******es in massive cars driving in the city centre are going to get hit with a big tax bill.

E92

Riskymove wrote: »

according to Car Magazine the 520d has 158g so I guess we don't know who has the actual official figures that we can trust?

They're wrong. As is the person who said it does 126 g/km. It does in fact 136 g/km(manual box only, slush box is 149 g/km), enough for a 16% VRT rate and almost a €9k reduction in VRT.

RobAMerc

This government has already precipitated a collapse in house prices, now they are hell bent on doing the same for the second biggest investment we make, our cars -

If this is not only for new cars then as of today - probably half the cars owned by us (judging by another boards thread) are worthless !

C_Breeze

IRLConor wrote: »

Changes in motor tax (yearly)

what the heck is this?????? I though it was based on Co2 not engine sizes anymore.

For a 1.9 for example it says there will be a 9.5% increase !! (€46) - how do they know this?????? surely not all 1.9 cars have exactly the same Co2 emissions?????

Now im completely confused

E92

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I Hate This Green Shower With A Passion
Ask These People How Much Warmer The Planet Has Got Since 1998
2000 Euro My Arse.

A VERY simple solution then: DON'T vote for either Fianna Fail or the Greens at the next or indeed any election.

The Greens came up with the idea, FF approved it, so thats collective responsibly for you.

Riskymove

C_Breeze wrote: »

what the heck is this?????? I though it was based on Co2 not engine sizes anymore.

For a 1.9 for example it says there will be a 9.5% increase !! (€46) - how do they know this?????? surely not all 1.9 cars have exactly the same Co2 emissions?????

Now im completely confused

those increases are just for the first six months of 2008

the new emmission based rates come in in July

mike65

C_Breeze the link you have is for everything currently on the roads up and until July 2008. All new car after that date will be rated on the new system while all cars registered before July 1 2008 will use the tradtional system. (I think!)

Mike.

IRLConor

C_Breeze wrote: »

what the heck is this?????? I though it was based on Co2 not engine sizes anymore.

For a 1.9 for example it says there will be a 9.5% increase !! (€46) - how do they know this?????? surely not all 1.9 cars have exactly the same Co2 emissions?????

Now im completely confused

The VRT is based on CO2.

The Motor Tax is based on engine size.

MitziAils

What does it mean if you buy a 1.6 car in January 08?
Do you pay €453.00 and then have to pay new higher figure depending on your emissions from January 09 or is it only for new cars purchased in July 08?

lynchie

Riskymove wrote: »

those increases are just for the first six months of 2008

the new emmission based rates come in in July

Wrong.. the new increases in motor tax are for all existing vehicles in the state up until July 08. After that, any new vehicles purchased or new / second hand vehicles imported into the state will be governed by the new tax system based on co2 emissions.

C_Breeze

IRLConor wrote: »

The VRT is based on CO2.

The Motor Tax is based on engine size.

What??

I thought they are changing motor tax from engine size to be based on Co2 aswell ..

whats this about then????

Band A (under 120 grams per km) - €100.
Band B (121-140 grams perkm) - €150.
Band C (141-155 grams per km) - € 290.
Band D (156-170 grams per km) - €430.
Band E (171-190 grams per km) -€ 600.
Band F (191-225 grams per km) - €1,000.
Band G, the top band -€2,000, reflecting CO2 emissions of over 225grams per km.

mike65

C_Breeze read what I and lynchie above said.

Mike.

Riskymove

lynchie wrote: »

Wrong.. the new increases in motor tax are for all existing vehicles in the state up until July 08. After that, any new vehicles purchased or new / second hand vehicles imported into the state will be governed by the new tax system based on co2 emissions.

actually I was right...I was talking about new cars:D

MarkN

C_Breeze wrote: »

What??

Band G, the top band -€2,000, reflecting CO2 emissions of over 225grams per km.[/B]

I feel like vomiting. :mad:

quickstitch.ie

Does this apply to commercial vehicles as well?

Mayshine

Wow, I'd be surprised if Honda ever sell another S2000 (my car) in this county again after July (tax goes from €530ish to €2000ish).

I would imagine the same for many japanese 2.0 turbos.

Sad day for affordable performance cars