BMW 316 and new VRT rules

Gandalf23

I'm thinking of buying a new BMW 316 ... does anyone know how the new VRT rules will effect the price of this car if I wait till Summer 2008 to buy?

E92

It will mean that the car will be cheaper to buy then rather than now, but here's the thing, the 318i when VRT adjusted actually turns out to be cheaper to buy than a VRT 316i(by around €300). Which leads me to the next question, why buy a 316i in the first place?

As I posted in this thread

E92 wrote:

Current 316i ES €38,300
316i ES from 1/7/08 €35,900(so €2,400 less)
318i ES from 1/7/08 €35,600(so €2,700 less and €300 less than the VRT adjusted price of the 316i ES)

318d ES from 1/7/08 €37,200(so €1,100 less)

So the 318 diesel will still cost €1,600 more than what we're speculating is the VRT adjusted 318 petrol, but at the same time will still be €1,100 cheaper to buy than a 316i being bought in the morning, however a 318 petrol will be €2,700 cheaper from July than a 316 petrol(before the VRT adjustement).

bazz26

Hopefully the days of the "Irish" 316i are coming to an end.

JHMEG

bazz26 wrote: »

Hopefully the days of the "Irish" 316i are coming to an end.

But what about those people who aspire to owning a 316?

Gandalf23

WOW!!! Thanks E92 ... thats crazy stuff!

I was just about to buy a demo model 316 ES with about 2500km on the clock for just under €35,000. This is looking like a fairly bad deal now.

Will I really be able to get a NEW 318i ES for the same price if I wait till July 2008???

Any opinions really really appreciated ...

E92

You could just request them to keep a 318i in stock but not to register it till 1/7/08 I suppose, the change applies for ALL cars registered after 1/7/08, but ask a BMW dealer, they'll be able to let you know(if something happens in between such that the VRT adjusted price is NOT the one i worked out, then it means either BMW are trousering the difference(which is illegal under EU Block Exemption rules) or spec levels change, which is a perfectly legitimate reason for a car's price to change, however as the car was recentrly facelifted, I would suggest the latter case if extremely unlikely).

Gandalf23

So would the best advice be to wait till July 2008?

If I buy the 316 now for €35,000 its surely likely to lose significant value over 2008 ... am I right?

Is it likely that current BMW's in stock will go down in price to reflect the changed VRT rules? Surely no one will spend €35k on a demo car now when they can get a new car of higher spec in 6 months time for the same price??? And surely current BMW garage stock will have to fall in price to reflect this???

I'm really confused about what to do here ... looks like I have a few options;

1. Buy the 316 now for €35k
2. Wait till July 2008 and buy the 318i ES for the same price
3. Wait for a few weeks and hope the current 316 tumbles by a few grand

Any advice or opions very very welcome here guys ...

Zonda999

If you are going to be keeping it for a good while then wait no question about it.I mean they dont even import the 316 to the uk.Apparently the engines "characteristics" dont suit the tastes of the uk's average bmw buyer.i.e its just too slow

f22

The best advise I can give you is buy something else. With that engine in a heavy car you'll be left behind by quite a few cars you'd prefer not be.

Either buy at least a 318 or look at the new Audi A4 which is a much better option.

Sandwich

Are we not being a bit hasty calculating new car prices under the changed VRT? If I understand, people are calculating new list prices based on adjusting the VRT element of the list price only. There is nothing to stop the importers changing the price of the car itself. Given that sellers like to look at price points, their prices accross their ranges, and the prices of the opposition to determine the retail price to the customer, who knows what they will choose to do in the new scenario.

Gandalf23

Sandwich wrote: »

Are we not being a bit hasty calculating new car prices under the changed VRT? If I understand, people are calculating new list prices based on adjusting the VRT element of the list price only. There is nothing to stop the importers changing the price of the car itself. Given that sellers like to look at price points, their prices accross their ranges, and the prices of the opposition to determine the retail price to the customer, who knows what they will choose to do in the new scenario.

Thats illegal under EU Block Exemption rules ... see E92's post above.

So does anyone have any solid suggestions about buying now or waiting till July 2008???

MarkN

Buy a Passat. That way you'll still have a small engine in a decent sized car but won't pay the premium for having the BMW badge.

Gandalf23

Thanks very much for all the advice on buying other cars guys ... much appreciated. However, having thought long and hard about my choice of new car I have decided that I'm either buying a BMW 316i ES or a BMW 318i ES. That debate is over and the decision is made. And final. And I'm ecstatically happy about it!




So back to the topic of the thread ... does anyone have any suggestions about either buying the ex-demo 316 now for €35k or waiting till July 2008 and buying a new 316 / 318.

Does anyone have any definite info on the prices of the 316 and 318 in July 2008 under the new VRT regime?


Any opinions on this greatly appreciated.

colm_mcm

details of new list prices won't be available till the last minute. Why would they do themselves out of deals for the first half of 08?

Gandalf23

But I thought prices were available now ... cars are being sold for 2008 now and list prices are known with certanty.

These prices may change slightly by July, but I dont think there will be a significant difference between the list price in Jan 2008 and July 2008.

What I'm asking about is the effect the change in VRT will have on the current price of a new BMW 316i ES and the price of a new BMW 318i ES ... and if its worth buying the ex-demo 316i ES now or waiting till July 2008 to buy a new 316 / 318 ???

HarryHood

Hi Gandalf,

I'm in a similar situation to you only I put down a grand deposit a few months ago for a 316 which is being delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I'm sick at the thought of it going down in value (by 2 grand if the figures mentioned here are correct) and don't know whether to let the dealer keep his grand and just wait till July and buy or to buy the 316 in Jan as planned and not lose my deposit. My other problem is I'm trading in a car (who'se VRT is set to go up come July!) and got almost 2 grand more for it from him than any other dealer. Any advice?

MarkN

HarryHood wrote: »

Hi Gandalf,

I'm in a similar situation to you only I put down a grand deposit a few months ago for a 316 which is being delivered to the dealer in the next few weeks. I'm sick at the thought of it going down in value (by 2 grand if the figures mentioned here are correct) and don't know whether to let the dealer keep his grand and just wait till July and buy or to buy the 316 in Jan as planned and not lose my deposit. My other problem is I'm trading in a car (who'se VRT is set to go up come July!) and got almost 2 grand more for it from him than any other dealer. Any advice?

So you buy it now and lose two grand. Or you wait and lose a grand on your deposit. So there's a grand in it.

I think the OP should at least go for the 318, I'm not a fan of small engined BMWs at all, they make super cars but you need a decent engine to match up and the best you can stretch to will be worth it.

JHMEG

MarkN wrote: »

Or you wait and lose a grand on your deposit.

Can dealers keep deposits? I thought those days ended with scabby college landlords..

E92

colm_mcm wrote: »

details of new list prices won't be available till the last minute. Why would they do themselves out of deals for the first half of 08?

Anyone who's ever heard of a calculator and knows how to use one can work it out now, they don't need the dealer to tell them, we're not working out the Maths of what speed a rocket needs to take off so that it can get to the Moon:D,.....the formula is (x*a)/b, where x is the current price, a is the %tage(expressed as a decimal) price of the car thats NOT VRT, and b is the new %tage(as a decimal again) price of the car that is NOT VRT. I realise we're not in the Maths forum, so sorry for using all the algebra, but it's the only way I know how to explain it

(Hypothetical)Example: car costs €10,000 and has 25%VRT at present, and under new system attracts 20%.

Well then, x=€10,000, a=1-0.25=0.75, b=1-0.20=0.80

For those that don't know, when a car has a VRT of say 30%, this means 30% of the total price of the car is VRT, hence why my % numbers are all below 1.

So do the Maths of it(10000*0.75)/0.8 = (7500)/0.8=€9,375.

I propose to the Moderators to make a sticky so that people know how to work out the price of a car under the new VRT scheme, rather than people having every second thread about what will my car cost now, because it certainly doesn't and won't affect me, but I know it will affect everyone buying a new car because none of the bands are the same, so the prices have to change for every single car.

CrowdedHouse

Yes they can keep the deposits...

I'm caught as well,I have a 320d ordered which arrived at the dealer yesterday........looks like it will drop several grand and I'll miss out on lower road tax as well :mad:

I did do a good deal at this dealer and I must admit I kind of feel honour bound to keep my end of the bargain but I'd be taking a very big hit.

E92

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

Yes they can keep the deposits...

I'm caught as well,I have a 320d ordered which arrived at the dealer yesterday........looks like it will drop several grand and I'll miss out on lower road tax as well :mad:

I did do a good deal at this dealer and I must admit I kind of feel honour bound to keep my end of the bargain but I'd be taking a very big hit.

Can you not tell him/her to keep the car until July 1, as you want to make hay with the new VRT regime? I mean the 320d ES is going down in price from €47,800 to €39,830(approx), so thats a massive €8,000 difference or there abouts. If you bought an SE version, the price falls from €50,850 to €42,375 which is a difference €8,475 which is almost €8,500:eek:. Not to mention the fact that the annual tax is going to be €590 on 1/2/08 now whereas from 1/7/08, the cost will be just €150, so thats €440 more tax.

JHMEG

Unless you signed something that had small print about the dealer keeping your deposit I doubt they are legally entitled to keep it.

Failing that, E92's idea sounds like a good one. Presumably the dealer will end up with less of a cut due to the lower final price.

I would also think any cars bought between now and July that will be *cheaper* to buy and tax from July on (such as the 320D) will be seriously hard to sell on when the time comes. I can picture the conversation that will be taking place in a couple of years: "Is that '08 one of the high tax or the low tax ones?". No-one will want a high tax 320D for obvious reasons.

E92

I presume dealers can, otherwise you could order a €100k M3 or €130k M5 etc, and then decide hey I don't want the car now and let the dealer suffer the enormous loss because its not like a big seller like say a 318i which they could sell on fairly easily. I would have thought they do.

As for dealer margins, AFAIK their margin is based on the pre VRT price, the manufacturer pays them a certain amount of the porice of the car, and then they get a bonus(these can be huge apparantly) if they exceed a certain sales target. Therefore I don't think it makes the blindest bit of difference whether they make a sale pre D-Day or post D-day. Of course I don't know for sure, some posters are in the Motor Trade, so they will know more about it than I do.

What I would suggest is that asking them to keep a car "in storage" like the way I've suggested isn't not going to go down well in one sense, if everyone does it the dealer will have a massive amount of stock, stock that shouldn't be on their forecourts, wasting space that could be used to sell used cars for instance, the likely additional cost of insurance due to the fact that there are a considerable number of Assets available for tyhe wrong sort of people, so excess stock will reduce their profit margin(not to mention the costs of getting a car going again after such a long period sitting on it's arse), so I presume you will be charged for the privilege of having a car in storage for over 6 months, however even it if was say €2,000 the car still works out €6,000+ cheaper to buy not to mention much cheaper to tax, so even then there would still be a massive saving to be made I feel. Again, I'm speculating, people in the Trade will know more than I do(and probably know more than they're going to let on to you and me on boards too, and businesses are there for profit making, they're not the Vincent de Paul so to a certain degree who can blame 'em).

what_car

E92 wrote: »

I presume dealers can, otherwise you could order a €100k M3 or €130k M5 etc, and then decide hey I don't want the car now and let the dealer suffer the enormous loss because its not like a big seller like say a 318i which they could sell on fairly easily. I would have thought they do.

As for dealer margins, AFAIK their margin is based on the pre VRT price, the manufacturer pays them a certain amount of the porice of the car, and then they get a bonus(these can be huge apparantly) if they exceed a certain sales target. Therefore I don't think it makes the blindest bit of difference whether they make a sale pre D-Day or post D-day. Of course I don't know for sure, some posters are in the Motor Trade, so they will know more about it than I do.

What I would suggest is that asking them to keep a car "in storage" like the way I've suggested isn't not going to go down well in one sense, if everyone does it the dealer will have a massive amount of stock, stock that shouldn't be on their forecourts, wasting space that could be used to sell used cars for instance, the likely additional cost of insurance due to the fact that there are a considerable number of Assets available for tyhe wrong sort of people, so excess stock will reduce their profit margin(not to mention the costs of getting a car going again after such a long period sitting on it's arse), so I presume you will be charged for the privilege of having a car in storage for over 6 months, however even it if was say €2,000 the car still works out €6,000+ cheaper to buy not to mention much cheaper to tax, so even then there would still be a massive saving to be made I feel. Again, I'm speculating, people in the Trade will know more than I do(and probably know more than they're going to let on to you and me on boards too, and businesses are there for profit making, they're not the Vincent de Paul so to a certain degree who can blame 'em).

hi whats the CO2 on the 320d? i assume that the diesel accord would drop by a similar amount?

the accord 2.2 CO2 is 143g and costs about €44k.. from what i see its going from 30% VRT to 20% VRT.. so reduction in cost by a similar amount?

i may invest in a 320d est, to see what all the fuss is about...
i read that the 320d is very clean, something round 128g..co2 if i recall...

are there any other diesels with similar, CO2 outputs.......

i can see long lead times on diesel car orders for Post July delivery..


btw the corolla 1.4D4D is 128g CO2 and reduces from 22.5% VRT to 16%

interesting.

E92

And the Avensis D-4D is down to 20%, it actually mean the car will cost only a few hundred Euro more than the 1.6(1.6 is going up to 28%)(bear in mind the diesel is €5,000 more or thereabouts presently) not to mention the fact the diesel is €310 less to tax and the fact it has VSC, TRC and Brake Assist which the 1.6 doesn't have, and I don't think that variant of the Avensis can last too much longer after 1/7/08 either. I'd expect the 1.6 to quietly disappear when the new car comes out in the latter half of next year.

Riskymove

I notice everyone is making estimates based on current list prices and applying % changes

I would have thought it more likely that manufacturers will review and restructure the system to maximise profits

If BMW are managing to get people to buy a particular car for, lets say, €50k, I can't see them just deciding to sell it for €45k now

Lex Luthor

Colm, whats the feeling like at the dealers at the moment? Are they expecting a very quiet new year now and a hectic summer?

JoeA3

E92 wrote: »

Well then, x=€10,000, a=1-0.25=0.75, b=1-0.20=0.80

For those that don't know, when a car has a VRT of say 30%, this means 30% of the total price of the car is VRT, hence why my % numbers are all below 1.

So do the Maths of it(10000*0.75)/0.8 = (7500)/0.8=€8,750.

Are you sure that's right? I make it that 7500/0.8 = €9375? Or am I missing something?

RobAMerc

I have just had a horrible thought ?

Manufacturers actually make less per car here in Ireland then they do anywhere else - to compensate for our VRT

- so when VRT rates come down - do you really think the industry will leave the cars people were paying xxx+30% VRT on at xxx+16% ??

Or will the start selling them at xxx +14% more profit +16% VRT ?

I'm beginning to think its fantasy that cars bought today will be 14% cheaper come in July and this was no surprise to the SIMI I bet!

E92

JoeA3 wrote: »

Are you sure that's right? I make it that 7500/0.8 = €9375? Or am I missing something?

You're right, my apologies! Next time I'll use a calculator:(! I've edited that post with my bad Maths!

HarryHood

Does anyone know what the July 2008 regular motor tax will be on the 316i? Will it be more or less than the current cost to tax it?